Prospect Info: Quinton Byfield (2nd Overall 2020 Draft) Discussion part II

[MBH]

Stutzle?
Kid is young and raw. But a different kind of raw. His offense came ready made.
Byfield was always a kid who had raw talent and needed to grown into his game.
Stutzle has to grown into his game in lots of ways too. His defense is brutal. He's physically out matched.

His offense is there, unlike Byfield's.
But also unlike Byfield, he's getting big minutes and PP minutes.

Byfield's P/60 was 1.2 last year and 1.4 this year.
Those are basically 3rd/4th line numbers.

Stutzle was 1.4 last year and he's off to a big start this year at 3.1.

By the way, Lafreniere was at 1.7 last year and was at 1.1 this year.

The truth is, that draft has been pretty underwhelming so far.
1. Lafreniere - disappointing
2. Byfield - disappointing
3. Stutzle - Good rookie year. Setback last year. Good start this year.
4. Raymond - Probably the overshooter thus far, but he's been gifted L1 and PP time since day 1.
5. Sanderson - Just starting.

Anyway, here's hoping Byfield finds his game in the AHL.
I disagreed with the Kings pushing this kid so fast. He needed another year of junior - but COVID changed the equation I guess.

 

[MBH]

Yes. He's done nothing to impress me. At the draft I thought his ceiling was maybe Ryan Johansen. Now? I'd be surprised if he's even a useful 2C. I think he ends up as one of those bottom 6 players that everyone waits to take the next steps because of his draft pedigree, but never makes the jump.

For the Kings sake I hope I'm wrong, but I really think this'll go down as one of the bigger draft whiffs. It's not like I'm playing captain hindsight here either.

I'd actually be less shocked if he ends up having a Brain Boyle like career as a reliable 4C after refocusing on the defensive side of the game. No offense to him or Boyle, but that would be a horrible ROI for a 2nd overall pick

I think he's got a Keith Primeau like ceiling. Maybe more playmaker than goal scorer, and probably not as physical.

Primeau
Year 1. 58 games 3-12-15
Year 2. 35 games 610-35
Year 3. 15-17-32
Year 4. 31-42-73

 

[SettlementRichie10]

He wouldn't with our current top 6 and TM ad coach

Again there is no defensive accountability in Ottawa, why they looking like a lottery team again when they were supposed to pushing for a playoff spot. Easy to rack up points when you don't have to worry about defense

Have you been watching the 22/23 Kings? We’re one of the worst defensive teams in the entire league. This excuse no longer holds water.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Man these threads are gonna be a juicier bump than the Vilardi ones.

Few people in here that said "call me when Vilardi hits NHL ice", "his career is done," "bust," and so on showing zero reflection on the idea of patience particularly for a project particularly one with injuries and illnesses.

 

[Telos]

I wonder why you think the development staff is "letting him figure things out" and aren't hands on?

I didn't, I just said I hope that they aren't, but the fact that he is still doing them pretty regularly at 2+ seasons and 54 games in the NHL isn't a great sign.

 

[JKG33]

Man these threads are gonna be a juicier bump than the Vilardi ones.

Few people in here that said "call me when Vilardi hits NHL ice", "his career is done," "bust," and so on showing zero reflection on the idea of patience particularly for a project particularly one with injuries and illnesses.

Imagine being happy picking a project at 2nd overall. That's not the draft position to be doing it.

Unlike Vilardi where the talent was always there and health was the question about his development, Byfield was a project even before his injuries/illness. That's not what I want when I'm picking 2nd

 

[lumbergh]

I'd actually be less shocked if he ends up having a Brain Boyle like career as a reliable 4C after refocusing on the defensive side of the game. No offense to him or Boyle, but that would be a horrible ROI for a 2nd overall pick

Gotta be one of my favorite typos in recent memory.

 

[JKG33]

Gotta be one of my favorite typos in recent memory.

Lmao I'll leave that one in

 

[SufferingSelfCreated]

Imagine being happy picking a project at 2nd overall. That's not the draft position to be doing it.

Unlike Vilardi where the talent was always there and health was the question about his development, Byfield was a project even before his injuries/illness. That's not what I want when I'm picking 2nd

While I'm generally okay with the Byfield pick... I can't argue with your reasoning, that's a totally fair take. I think his ceiling is Malkin/Barkov.

 

[Fishhead]

Byfield wasn't a project, he just wasn't as NHL ready as other prospects. He was quite young, 10 months younger than Lafreniere. Had he not had that bad injury that kept him out for a long time these types of conversations wouldn't even be happening.

 

[Choralone]

Man, a lot of you guys need instant closure. Embrace the ambiguity of life.

 

[Fishhead]

Have you been watching the 22/23 Kings? We’re one of the worst defensive teams in the entire league. This excuse no longer holds water.

Just because the Kings are allowing more goals so far doesn’t mean their isn’t more accountability or higher expectations. I fully expect the Kings to be far better than Ottawa in all defensive metrics when all is said and done this year. There was a 30 goal gap last year which is a stronger indicator than limited games this year.

As uncharacteristically shitty as the Kings have been on defense so far this year, the Senators still allow more goals per game. That says something.

 

[Pucknut50]

Man these threads are gonna be a juicier bump than the Vilardi ones.

Few people in here that said "call me when Vilardi hits NHL ice", "his career is done," "bust," and so on showing zero reflection on the idea of patience particularly for a project particularly one with injuries and illnesses.

Well you can say that about everyone on the Kings through the years on this forum. Thoughts like that are game to game here. As for the Byfield and Stuzle draft, I wanted Stuzle not because I thought he was much better, but that he had star power and what LA likes is stars. Kings also lacking on the PP and thought he would be perfect to help there. Byfield is shy, humble, good kid but boring.....I am rooting for him and I do think when he grows into that body he should be a top 6 forward.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Man these threads are gonna be a juicier bump than the Vilardi ones.

Few people in here that said "call me when Vilardi hits NHL ice", "his career is done," "bust," and so on showing zero reflection on the idea of patience particularly for a project particularly one with injuries and illnesses.

You were selling stock on Vilardi this past year, too, RJ. We all were. Vilardi breaking out the way he did is historically rare.

Nevertheless, I don't know why you're throwing Vilardi in peoples' faces. You were carrying Rob Blake's luggage for 2.5 years before you started to sour on him. Should that be thrown in your face? You even ran defense for the Lucic trade once upon a time.

We're all right and wrong about things. Have some class and good faith here. No one is advocating to trade Byfield. People hold high expectations for a 2nd overall pick. That shouldn't be controversial. We understand Covid messed with a lot of prospects' development. However, we can't use this as a catch-all excuse when players in Byfield's draft year have already become productive NHLers.

There are causes for concern in Byfield's development. There are also plenty of reasons to stay patient. We should be capable of a nuanced discussion rather than devolve into throwing gotchas at one another.

 

[mysterman2]

Well you can say that about everyone on the Kings through the years on this forum. Thoughts like that are game to game here. As for the Byfield and Stuzle draft, I wanted Stuzle not because I thought he was much better, but that he had star power and what LA likes is stars.

Excluding Dallas- What NHL fanbase is against having Stars?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

You were selling stock on Vilardi this past year, too, RJ. We all were. Vilardi breaking out the way he did is historically rare.

Nevertheless, I don't know why you're throwing Vilardi in peoples' faces. You were carrying Rob Blake's luggage for 2.5 years before you started to sour on him. Should that be thrown in your face? You even ran defense for the Lucic trade once upon a time.

We're all right and wrong about things. Have some class and good faith here. No one is advocating to trade Byfield. People hold high expectations for a 2nd overall pick. That shouldn't be controversial. We understand Covid messed with a lot of prospects' development. However, we can't use this as a catch-all excuse when players in Byfield's draft year have already become productive NHLers.

There are causes for concern in Byfield's development. There are also plenty of reasons to stay patient. We should be capable of a nuanced discussion rather than devolve into throwing gotchas at one another.

I've eaten shit plenty of times because I don't pretend I never held those views. Hell, I eat shit constantly for being positive about the prospects, feel free to say I told you so if Byfield doesn't pan out.

high expectations for a 2nd overall pick aren't controversial.

Calling them busts and Boyle in the middle of development is silly, don't pretend that's 'nuanced discussion'--I'll call that out when I see it, thank you very much.

And the point was WRT to vilardi and the initial post--said poster literally two months ago was calling Vilardi a write-off bust and suggesting guys are what they are at 20...the point was have we learned nothing about patience especially in response to injuries?

Edit: and actually no I'd have to check my post history but I'm pretty positive I've been on the Vilardi needs more love train this entire time. I think even during the offseason I said it's gonna be funny when he's scoring 60 points for another team this year...And I definitely fought all summer with more than a handful of posters who said he was a bust and waiver fodder, so...barking up the wrong tree here.

What is your most homer and least homer opinion?

I saw this as a thread on the hockey subreddit and it generated some good responses. I’ll start (Buffalo) Most Homer: Rasmus Dahlin already broke out in the second half of last year, and will be a consensus top 5 defenseman by the end of the year. Least Homer: Not utilizing our cap space...

forums.hfboards.com

Haha yep, this was from August.

 

[johnjm22]

Byfield's upside is somewhere between Tage Thompson and Evgeni Malkin.

His floor is Bryan Boyle.

He's a left shot. Maybe the Kings should also try and turn him into a defenseman.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Imagine being happy picking a project at 2nd overall. That's not the draft position to be doing it.

Unlike Vilardi where the talent was always there and health was the question about his development, Byfield was a project even before his injuries/illness. That's not what I want when I'm picking 2nd

That's not what that means in this instance, though. The talent WAS there, the kid was setting all sorts of scoring milestones for his age and was in conversation for #1 overall with some reputable sources.

The 'project' part was just that his raw tools are unteachable and harnessing those could make him even MORE monstrous and practially unstoppable. He has the Malkin physical package (not THAT kind of generational talent, but the size, power, speed/skatin) coming out of juniors.

Considering I just got peepeeslapped for 'not arguing in good faith' it's more than a little annoying that you're being deliberately obtuse. I like you and I'm okay disagreeing with you, i know you're smarter than this.

 

[bland]

Byfield wasn't a project, he just wasn't as NHL ready as other prospects. He was quite young, 10 months younger than Lafreniere. Had he not had that bad injury that kept him out for a long time these types of conversations wouldn't even be happening.

No, he absolutely was a project, just with higher expectations than most projects. His ability was for all to see, but it was an EXTREMELY raw ability that saw him doing the same things over and over because his physical package allowed him to dominate other kids in his age range. That can be said about a whole lot of kids, but not most top picks. What made him attractive was that his long range potential is that of the rarest of players - a huge, rangy #1 center with tremendous ability and skating.

The Kings were in perfect position to take that risk so early by having drafted so many centers preceding Byfield - they could afford the wait and patience. There are many other teams that would be very disappointed if they had drafted Byfield that high and counted on results much sooner than most top 2 or 3 picks.

Lafreniere's biggest problem is that his team is trying to contend and are asking him to contribute to that cause instead of allowing him to feel his way into the league.

Raymond and Seider are being handled pitch perfectly in my opinion.

 

[AbsentMojo]

QB turned 20 a couple months ago - im not worried about him yet. He's always been a bit of a conundrum with a mix of NHL and Junior level attributes in a large gangly body... so its not clear where to develop him. I remember watching him at WJC and he was on the 3rd line and no PP and wondered why team Canada didnt use him more - while Stutzle was buzzing around looking like a 3rd overall at the same tournament. At this point of his development, I think he could use a good long stint in the A (not just rehab the flu). Give him top minutes, PP1, OT etc. Let him be the man down there. Let him play some wing as well so if there's an injury he could slot in there if nec.

 

[Fishhead]

No, he absolutely was a project, just with higher expectations than most projects. His ability was for all to see, but it was an EXTREMELY raw ability that saw him doing the same things over and over because his physical package allowed him to dominate other kids in his age range. That can be said about a whole lot of kids, but not most top picks. What made him attractive was that his long range potential is that of the rarest of players - a huge, rangy #1 center with tremendous ability and skating.

The Kings were in perfect position to take that risk so early by having drafted so many centers preceding Byfield - they could afford the wait and patience. There are many other teams that would be very disappointed if they had drafted Byfield that high and counted on results much sooner than most top 2 or 3 picks.

Lafreniere's biggest problem is that his team is trying to contend and are asking him to contribute to that cause instead of allowing him to feel his way into the league.

Raymond and Seider are being handled pitch perfectly in my opinion.

I don't think he was a project at all, and neither did NHL GM's/Scouts/Pundits. What you are describing can be said about most prospects. I think it would be pretty difficult to find any draft profile or capsule of Byfield that describes him as a project, if any even exists. Projects are players taken later in the draft, not ones who dominate juniors.

Lafreniere, yeah. He should have been put on the third line rather than the top lines to ease his way in. Both the team and he would have been better off that way.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Hey, I'll even concede people can worry at this point. I just disagree for a LOT of reasons.

I just don't like the hypothetical 'we should have drafted x' that are completely ignorant of context and pretending now is the be-all and end-all for a kid who just exited his teens.

He had 3 points in 5 games before the Iafallo injury and the line was broken up. He's not ready to take that HUGE step forward that Vilardi did into being a force completely on his own and that's okay; but as expected, we've seen what he can do with competent linemates as opposed to 'what's left' in 10 minutes with no powerplay time.

 

[Schrute farms]

i used to care about young studs coming right in and hitting their stride and being successful...rather than slowly developing into a star / impact guy. But seeing how the Avs lucked out with that first contract; and how recently young guys are being paid tons (Stutzle, etc.) based on short period success and hoping for it to continue upward. Maybe there is some indirect benefit cap wise to a slow burn. Certainly, there is less risk involved.

Even Gabe V, he's blowing up now and will in all likelihood get a big contract this summer. But not what he's get if this had happened earlier in his career.

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

Both have faced significant injuries. Vilardi was a bust until he wasn’t. Still a long way to go in these young men’s careers.

Vilardi wasn’t a bust at the same age he hadn’t played. What I’m not impressed with is what QB has done on the ice. He could develop no doubt but he needs to dominate in the AHL before being brought up. He isn’t better than anyone ahead of him on the depth chart. If he steals a job awesome but he shouldn’t be given shit when we are a playoff team.

Same for Turcotte.

Hey, I'll even concede people can worry at this point. I just disagree for a LOT of reasons.

I just don't like the hypothetical 'we should have drafted x' that are completely ignorant of context and pretending now is the be-all and end-all for a kid who just exited his teens.

He had 3 points in 5 games before the Iafallo injury and the line was broken up. He's not ready to take that HUGE step forward that Vilardi did into being a force completely on his own and that's okay; but as expected, we've seen what he can do with competent linemates as opposed to 'what's left' in 10 minutes with no powerplay time.

You mean Vilardi had 3 points and QB was on his line when it happened.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

You mean Vilardi had 3 points and QB was on his line when it happened.

Yeah just happened to be there, not a key part of the play



Causes the turnover to start the play:



Makes several protection plays to keep the cycle going, was actually open for an option several times




If anything you're just agreeing with me that the point is you give him other skilled players and he is making things happen.