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Player Discussion Quinn Hughes, Pt. VII

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His combination of elite edges, elusiveness, agility, and IQ is the most unique package I've ever seen. He not only knows how to pivot or spin away from opponents, but he knows what to do after he does that too. Slows the game down and can make the right pass after evading a check 99% of the time. I can barely even put into words how he's doing it, but it's truly amazing to watch. Definition of tilting the ice.

His past month+ of hockey is Norris level.
 
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I wonder how many extra points Hughes would have piled up if he had an average #2D (or even a legitimate top 4D) as a partner.
 
I don't think most peoples opinions on defenseman are coherent when the biggest apparent knocks to Hughes are his size (he's 1 inch shorter than the 2 consensus super-elite do-it-all defenseman, Makar and Fox, who are both under 6 ft themselves lol) and his shot (which he generates deflections with all the time, which are harder to save than point shots).

Apparently; if Hughes were 1 inch taller and traded 5 of his assists for Goals, he'd be a consensus #1 guy and a Norris candidate. That may sound silly, which is because it is.
 
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Cybertruck said:
I wonder how many extra points Hughes would have piled up if he had an average #2D (or even a legitimate top 4D) as a partner.
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It's pretty funny to watch sometimes. He'll be on a shift with Myers or Burroughs and you can see him literally look them off and refuse to pass to them. He understands he has a way better chance if he just holds onto it or passes it to a forward.
 
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canuckking1 said:
What about the offensive gap that he’s had over Heiskanen over their career. I agree with the other 3 but disagree with Heiskanen.
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Heiskanen has been elite at defending his entire career.

Agree, the counting stats are nowhere near as strong as Hughes. But I think that's more due to usage/poor coaching. He wasn't really given the keys to the top offensive situations and PP1 until Klingberg left. Now he is the undisputed option in those spots, and is making hay with them.
 
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credulous said:
do you think fox, mcavoy, dunn, heiskanen, josi, spurgeon, etc haven't had games where they hit 70% corsi/fenwick?

again, i'm not saying hughes isn't an incredible player. i'm just saying he has more to prove before you call him a norris candidate
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Maybe in your assessment but HE IS a Norris candidate and you will see that at the end of season voting
 
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bossram said:
Heiskanen has been elite at defending his entire career.

Agree, the counting stats are nowhere near as strong as Hughes. But I think that's more due to usage/poor coaching. He wasn't really given the keys to the top offensive situations and PP1 until Klingberg left. Now he is the undisputed option in those spots, and is making hay with them.
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I mean hes on a similar heater that Hughes is defensively with a 12 game point streak and 20 points during that span. Before that even in his larger role his offensive number weren’t in that elite category. I think similar to Hughes he doesn’t have the track record of being elite at both ends except for a small sample compared to the other 3 names you mentioned. I’d agree there’s a top 3ish tier and then there the Hughes tier with about 4-5 guys.
 
canuckking1 said:
I mean hes on a similar heater that Hughes is defensively with a 12 game point streak and 20 points during that span. Before that even in his larger role his offensive number weren’t in that elite category. I think similar to Hughes he doesn’t have the track record of being elite at both ends except for a small sample compared to the other 3 names you mentioned. I’d agree there’s a top 3ish tier and then there the Hughes tier with about 4-5 guys.
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Yes I know. I'm saying Heiskanen's previous "lack" of offense was not really because of a lack of ability, just not getting the usage. His 5v5 rate production still strong back then. Didn't get prime PP time. But he was always an elite defensive defender.

I don't think there is an argument to say Hughes was an elite defender before.
 
Im so impressed with Hughes' progression, but I do need to see this level of dominance over the course of 82 games to say he's top 5. This year, Fox, Karlsson, Makar, Lindholm, Heiskanen gets top 5 votes from me, Quinn, Josi, Dahlin, Morrisey, McAvoy next tier. He is getting penalized for his play early in the season. Post Jan 1st, he's been top 5
 
lawrence said:


Quinn has evolved into a beast. That A on his jersey upped his level. Tochhet was right when he said that guys on the team, especially Hughes and Petey had another level in them to give.
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wait is Drance asking Hughes about defensive play issues? Why would he ask this… Hughes has been a beast. Drance is just a little shit pot stirrer if he’s going out of his way to ask questions like that. I haven’t heard of anyone questioning Hughes’s defensive play but Drance. Drance needs to go get a real job because he isn’t very good at this job if stirring the pot with players is all he can do.
 
iFan said:
wait is Drance asking Hughes about defensive play issues? Why would he ask this… Hughes has been a beast. Drance is just a little shit pot stirrer if he’s going out of his way to ask questions like that. I haven’t heard of anyone questioning Hughes’s defensive play but Drance. Drance needs to go get a real job because he isn’t very good at this job if stirring the pot with players is all he can do.
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Pump the brakes guy.

It was the response to a question from Farhan Lalji about his season, and if they were in a playoff hunt, that he'd be getting consideration for Norris or first team all star etc.
 
bossram said:
He's having a phenomenal season. But Quinn isn't in the Makar, Fox, Heiskanen, and McAvoy (and previously Hedman) tier because he doesn't bring the elite defending the others do as well.
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How is it possible to even compare Quinn Hughes to guys like Makar, Fox, Heiskanen and McAvoy? Look at the standings, and the teams they play on

Hughes plays on a team that even with its run of good play recently is still bottom-third in goals allowed. And look at the partners Hughes has been saddled with this season. He makes every one of them better, but most of them are still 'replacement level' defenders.

Put Quin on the Av's, Rangers, Stars or Bruins, and he's an automatic for the Norris. But sadly he gets dissed by 'the experts' because he's forced to carry a lackluster team on his back night after night. It's ridiculous.
 
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VanJack said:
How is it possible to even compare Quinn Hughes to guys like Makar, Fox, Heiskanen and McAvoy? Look at the standings, and the teams they play on

Hughes plays on a team that even with its run of good play recently is still bottom-third in goals allowed. And look at the partners Hughes has been saddled with this season. He makes every one of them better, but most of them are still 'replacement level' defenders.

Put Quin on the Av's, Rangers, Stars or Bruins, and he's an automatic for the Norris. But sadly he gets dissed by 'the experts' because he's forced to carry a lackluster team on his back night after night. It's ridiculous.
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Well, might not even try to compare them then. Just give Quinn the Norris now because he's valiantly leading the Canucks to a tremendous 10th place finish.

Like lol, let's get real man. We know Quinn is not on an elite team. Nobody is holding that against him. I'm not looking at his raw goals against totals to evaluate his defense, because DUH we know the Canucks are not a great team.

His chance prevention relative to team (not raw numbers) is mid-pack among Fox, Makar, McAvoy, and Heiskanen. This is really, really good. Something like Evolving Hockey's RAPM - which tries to control for teammates and usage - also rates him mid-pack defensively among the NHL's elite. Again, very, very good.

I only downgrade him defensively next to the rest of those names because he doesn't have the track record of defending at that level that the others have.

iFan said:
wait is Drance asking Hughes about defensive play issues? Why would he ask this… Hughes has been a beast. Drance is just a little shit pot stirrer if he’s going out of his way to ask questions like that. I haven’t heard of anyone questioning Hughes’s defensive play but Drance. Drance needs to go get a real job because he isn’t very good at this job if stirring the pot with players is all he can do.
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I don't really know what you're trying to say here, other than "I hate Drance".

I don't think Drance asked the question. And if you asked Drance, he doesn't think Quinn is a liability. Far from it.
 
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I think we can’t discount the impact and influence having gonchar behind the bench is doing and will continue doing for his game. More so than Tocchet I think this has been the most important coaching hire this team has had in a while. No more Baumgartner ever again please.
 
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By the numbers, Hughes’ *defensive* results under Tocchet have been dominant*. We’ll see how this plays out next season, but this is promising.

*he’s still only human as his results in 78 minutes with Myers have still been poor.
 

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I want to see him, petterson, demko, and miller in the playoffs. Not a no fan interaction, heartless teams bubble, but a real bonafide playoffs. There are so many narratives that we aren't even scratching yet cause we have to actually see these players in the playoffs.

It's great these guys are all performing well but it truly is nothing more than personal regular season stats. They have all the swagger in the world at the moment.
 
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bossram said:
Well, might not even try to compare them then. Just give Quinn the Norris now because he's valiantly leading the Canucks to a tremendous 10th place finish.

Like lol, let's get real man. We know Quinn is not on an elite team. Nobody is holding that against him. I'm not looking at his raw goals against totals to evaluate his defense, because DUH we know the Canucks are not a great team.

His chance prevention relative to team (not raw numbers) is mid-pack among Fox, Makar, McAvoy, and Heiskanen. This is really, really good. Something like Evolving Hockey's RAPM - which tries to control for teammates and usage - also rates him mid-pack defensively among the NHL's elite. Again, very, very good.

I only downgrade him defensively next to the rest of those names because he doesn't have the track record of defending at that level that the others have.


I don't really know what you're trying to say here, other than "I hate Drance".

I don't think Drance asked the question. And if you asked Drance, he doesn't think Quinn is a liability. Far from it.
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At the end of the day, defending is a 'team game'. Simply put, guys like Heiskanen, Makar, McAvoy and Fox look good defending, because the guys around them are a lot better.

Transplant any of those guys on to the current Canucks blueline, and watch them struggle. Hughes is playing almost 30 minutes a night--not because they want to play him that much.....but because they don't have anyone else.

He 's on the first unit PP; and the first unit PK; and is double-shifted late games if the Canucks are ahead or protecting a lead.

Boston, Dallas, Boston and the Rangers are four of the best teams in hockey. You don't think that makes any difference in how their defensemen play night in and night out? Seriously?
 
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VanJack said:
At the end of the day, defending is a 'team game'. Simply put, guys like Heiskanen, Makar, McAvoy and Fox look good defending, because the guys around them are a lot better.

Transplant any of those guys on to the current Canucks blueline, and watch them struggle. Hughes is playing almost 30 minutes a night--not because they want to play him that much.....but because they don't have anyone else.

He 's on the first unit PP; and the first unit PK; and is double-shifted late games if the Canucks are ahead or protecting a lead.

Boston, Dallas, Boston and the Rangers are four of the best teams in hockey. You don't think that makes any difference in how their defensemen play night in and night out? Seriously?
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Lmao man, if you want to ignore everything I said, why bother replying?

Like, I literally said I know that Hughes is on a bad team. I'm taking that into account. I'm looking at metrics that take into account usage, teammates, competition, and context. I'm not looking at raw goal stats to evaluate his defense. I'm watching him play. I know his usage.

His defensive impact this season is legitimately very good. But it's new territory for him. For the other players mentioned, they have a longer track record.

Again, if you don't want to engage in any substantive way, there is no discussion to be had. Your only point is "Quinn good, bad team bad". I mean, alright. I know that.
 
bossram said:
Lmao man, if you want to ignore everything I said, why bother replying?

Like, I literally said I know that Hughes is on a bad team. I'm taking that into account. I'm looking at metrics that take into account usage, teammates, competition, and context. I'm not looking at raw goal stats to evaluate his defense. I'm watching him play. I know his usage.

His defensive impact this season is legitimately very good. But it's new territory for him. For the other players mentioned, they have a longer track record.

Again, if you don't want to engage in any substantive way, there is no discussion to be had. Your only point is "Quinn good, bad team bad". I mean, alright. I know that.
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I catch myself pumping the brakes on Hughes lately, the competition is legit very soft, so I am looking forward to seeing his play over the first half next year, hopefully with another legit top 4 in Hronek spelling him to get him down to 23-24 minute usage, can giving him a more even playing field when comparing with the other young D.

This year is a mess, Demko losing his mojo early on, a messy coaching change and the discrepancy in quality of competition recently makes it really hard to evaluate just exactly how Quinn stacks up. Currently, he is exceeding what I imagine his peak to be at 23. He definitely has shown a higher ceiling than Housley, I want to see if he can reach Leetch level in wildly elite offense plus good defense. Its so fantastic that these 5 guys, Makar/Fox/Heiskanen/Hughes/Dahlin all came at roughly the same time. All bringing varying ratio of offense vs defense.
 
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