GDT: QF - SWE vs. FIN May 23, 2024

[NotCommitted]

That call on Helenius for great defensive play sucks. He comes so close to hitting the lower hand on the stick (but doesn't) for slashing, but that's not even what the ref mistakes that for, I'm not sure how that's supposed to be hooking when it's a stick on stick play...

Better team won though and that's the way those calls tend to go when you're the underdog playing defensively all game.

 

[Albatros]

That call on Helenius for great defensive play sucks. He comes so close to hitting the lower hand on the stick (but doesn't) for slashing, but that's not even what the ref mistakes that for, I'm not sure how that's supposed to be hooking when it's a stick on stick play...

Better team won though and that's the way those calls tend to go when you're the underdog playing defensively all game.

"Hooking is the act of using the stick in a manner that enables a Player to restrain an opponent. If the stick goes against the opponent’s hands / or near the opponent’s hands, it shall be penalized as “hooking”."

There was such contact, so you definitely can call it.

 

[NotCommitted]

"Hooking is the act of using the stick in a manner that enables a Player to restrain an opponent. If the stick goes against the opponent’s hands / or near the opponent’s hands, it shall be penalized as “hooking”."

There was such contact, so you definitely can call it.

Maybe you should've posted the full rule...

"Hooking is the act of using the stick in a manner that enables a Player to restrain an opponent. If the stick goes against the opponent’s hands / or near the opponent’s hands, it shall be penalized as “hooking”. When a Player is checking another in such a way that there
is only stick-to-stick contact, such action is not to be penalized as “hooking”

EDIT: further on "restraining"
"A Player who does not have “body position” on their opponent, who uses their stick (either the blade or the shaft, including the butt-end of the shaft) to impede or prevent their opponent from moving “freely” on the ice shall be assessed a “hooking” penalty"

I just don't see a hooking penalty there, Helenius plays that hard but IMO does a great job of not crossing the line and just doing a stick lift.

 

[Albatros]

There was contact against or near the opponent's hands, so that part is irrelevant. A good call.

 

[Lenny Levino]

Sweden really isn't gonna get a medal. Bronze if lucky. Nice to see how Finland seems to always surprise and score till the final minute.

Sweden's problem is mental weakness and crappy forwards. Yeah might sound sour but look at that Finnish Skoda cup roster lol.

The Swedes did the least possible to secure a win. But in the end, a win is a win.

They probably played at 30% of their potential.

 

[ZEBROA]

I wonder how this game would have ended if Sweden had played the same system as Finland. It would probably be insainly boring. And Finland would probably be better at it. But sometimes i belive it is better to not go full throtel as the other team expect.

 

[mattihp]

The Swedes did the least possible to secure a win. But in the end, a win is a win.

They probably played at 30% of their potential.

The swedes succeeded with the least possible to secure a win. Finland kept them at 30% of their potential.

 

[NuTarViDom]

My two cents!

I wasnt far off with my 2-1 prediction, it could have gone any other way! Sometimes I feel like i'm in a weird twilight-zone where everyone forgets that Finland always is a pain to get through, doesn't matter if they're garbage in the group rounds. I believe there are two reasons for this.

1. The Culture. Finnish hockey culture is built on trying to beat Sweden, yes of course you can make the argument that Finland has won more in the last five years, that is true, but looking at the last 30 years that is not the case. Hockey as we all know is 75% a mental game. From the moment finns are born the ideas that beating Sweden is priority numer one is beaten into their heads. This means that mentally, every game against Sweden is played with the intensity of an Olympic gold medal game.

2. Coaching/Jalonen. Jalonen has an interesting strategy of having a highly skilled team but still playing turtle hockey like Latvia or Slovakia for example. Just trapping plays and attacking on the counter. I believe that the idea is to get breakaways but with skilled Finnish forwards. Interesting idea but the problem with this is that the gameplan completely collapses when you´re down by two goals or more. This strategy has given Finland Success in the last few years but it is risky. Just look at the quarters last year.

In conclusion: Great game Finland, you almost did it again! For Sweden mentally this might as well have been the final. A loss in this game would be damaging for Swedish hockey in general!

 

[mattihp]

Innala amongst Finland's top three players in this tournament?!

 

[Hntz]

My two cents!

.

2. Coaching/Jalonen. Jalonen has an interesting strategy of having a highly skilled team but still playing turtle hockey like Latvia or Slovakia for example.

What highly skilled team? This team without Granlund is propably worse than the gold-winning team in 2019, and the only way to beat any of the better teams is to play ’turle hockey’. Jalonen is a master of getting the most out of a lackluster roster and there is nothing to be ashamed of there.

 

[NuTarViDom]

What highly skilled team? This team without Granlund is propably worse than the gold-winning team in 2019, and the only way to beat any of the better teams is to play ’turle hockey’. Jalonen is a master of getting the most out of a lackluster roster and there is nothing to be ashamed there.

I agree 100%! No disrespect to Jalonen or Finland intended, he has really worked magic with what he has had to work with. But the idea of "more NHL-Players=Better" is a bit passé, i mean, you Smashed Great Britain 8-0, and you scored 3 against Canada. You cant do that without some skill.

 

[Hntz]

I agree 100%! No disrespect to Jalonen or Finland intended, he has really worked magic with what he has had to work with. But the idea of "more NHL-Players=Better" is a bit passé, i mean, you Smashed Great Britain 8-0, and you scored 3 against Canada. You cant do that without some skill.

Well this was kinda our ”C-team” as even our best european players refused the call to join the team. Also most of the guys on the team aren’t considered ”skill guys” in their own teams, but more gritty hard-working type. So no, I don’t agree that the team was ”highly skilled”. But yes, obviously some skill is needed to get the result that we did.

 

[mattihp]

Well this was kinda our ”C-team” as even our best european players refused the call to join the team. Also most of the guys on the team aren’t considered ”skill guys” in their own teams, but more gritty hard-working type. So no, I don’t agree that the team was ”highly skilled”. But yes, obviously some skill is needed to get the result that we did.

They aren't even the best gritty, hard-working types. More like middle of the road guys who do a bit of everything.

Positive surprises:
Puljujärvi didn't look stupid, just inconsistent. I still have hopes for him to become a 30pt guy in the NHL.

Basic Liiga level defensemen are quite alright at this level.

Kaski finally started to understand the system and was quite useful. Even broke up some plays defensively from time to time.

Regrets:
I totally get that guys that have bad EHT tournaments aren't rewarded, but we left some better players at home and rewarded some guys that just don't have as high a ceiling.

Constant line shuffling. Might be a result of the point before this, but no line got their chemistry there in time. Fewer already working pairings where on the team.

Lehtonen is getting old. He got nowhere near his old level. He didn't make me feel safe defensively at all with his turnovers and his offensive drive wasn't there. He might retire from the national team, but we are usually short for options. Every Finnish d-man with some kind of offensive pedigree needs to be tried.

 

[Shark Finn]

Its actually crazy how much better Finland is in icehockey than Sweden. Their players from euro leagues is better than Swedens best NHLers. 2019 and the game today shows it.

Dude, no need to jinx it anymore.

 

[NuTarViDom]

Well this was kinda our ”C-team” as even our best european players refused the call to join the team. Also most of the guys on the team aren’t considered ”skill guys” in their own teams, but more gritty hard-working type. So no, I don’t agree that the team was ”highly skilled”. But yes, obviously some skill is needed to get the result that we did.

Finland really has perfected the idea of "Good offense wins games, good defence wins championships". I do believe that the Finnish national team is making the right choice in letting Jalonen go before four nations and the Olympics, his game wont work with the highest level Finnish players!

 

[Hntz]

Finland really has perfected the idea of "Good offense wins games, good defence wins championships". I do believe that the Finnish national team is making the right choice in letting Jalonen go before four nations and the Olympics, his game wont work with the highest level Finnish players!

This take I 100% agree on. Jalonen's extremely defensive system has worked with our lesser teams, but when we have our A-team, our system must be faster and more offence-oriented.

 

[weklof]

Well this was kinda our ”C-team” as even our best european players refused the call to join the team. Also most of the guys on the team aren’t considered ”skill guys” in their own teams, but more gritty hard-working type. So no, I don’t agree that the team was ”highly skilled”. But yes, obviously some skill is needed to get the result that we did.

How come some many of Finlands player, even Euros refuse call ups? Didn't they enjoy playing Jalonens defensive style or is there something else? Will we see stronger squads under a different coach?

 

[mattihp]

How come some many of Finlands player, even Euros refuse call ups? Didn't they enjoy playing Jalonens defensive style or is there something else? Will we see stronger squads under a different coach?

They are full. Three golds in senior tournaments since 2019

 

[Sanf]

How come some many of Finlands player, even Euros refuse call ups? Didn't they enjoy playing Jalonens defensive style or is there something else? Will we see stronger squads under a different coach?

There have been rumours that players weren´t that keen on being used as marketing tools during WHC... not sure if it true, but fair and possible.

But overall it is easy to say that lot of players have won quite a lot with NT lately. And we had two home games in a row with pretty strong teams. I mean good euro participation and some highend NHL additions.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

It means life and death. It is the most important tournament since 1998. And is the ultimate middle finger to the Stalin wannabe in Moscow who loves hockey, the world moves on without you.

Sure. Why would you want to watch the world's greatest players in a true tournament? Let's play political games instead.

And I'm sure charge astronomical prices as if the tournament was actually anything more than a Bettman money grab.

 

[Sanf]

There was contact against or near the opponent's hands, so that part is irrelevant. A good call.

Yeah Helenius was already behind in the situation and there was minor contact. Quite easy call even if the contact wasn´t huge.

But hard to blame the kid. Had very decent game. Few unnecessary puck losses if offensive zone and faceoff % of 22 lowers it from good to decent game.

 

[Miro4Norris]

Finland really has perfected the idea of "Good offense wins games, good defence wins championships". I do believe that the Finnish national team is making the right choice in letting Jalonen go before four nations and the Olympics, his game wont work with the highest level Finnish players!

I don't know about this. Look at the 2016 WJC, only time when Jalonen actually had a skilled team like he would in olympics. They weren't playing defensively, opposite actually. Results were great. I think Jalonen is just adjusting his system to the roster's capability.

Unfortunately he had never chance to coach a skilled team, well 2010 olympics roster was OK but definitely not what we could put on the ice now and Jalonen didn't have his charisma/reputation yet. Still got bronze.

 

[NuTarViDom]

I don't know about this. Look at the 2016 WJC, only time when Jalonen actually had a skilled team like he would in olympics. They weren't playing defensively, opposite actually. Results were great. I think Jalonen is just adjusting his system to the roster's capability.

Unfortunately he had never chance to coach a skilled team, well 2010 olympics roster was OK but definitely not what we could put on the ice now and Jalonen didn't have his charisma/reputation yet. Still got bronze.

He would do fine with a stacked roster, sure! But if Finland gets an offensive minded coach, that would be scary.

 

[FiLe]

Constant line shuffling. Might be a result of the point before this, but no line got their chemistry there in time. Fewer already working pairings where on the team.

The biggest reason for this was the previous WHC, where Jalonen kept most of the lineup very static, because he believed that they wil gel when given time. Except they never did, and by the time he realized it, it was too late. So the constant lineup lottery this year was him trying to not make the same mistake twice.

And he did give some pairings ample time this year too, such as Granlund + Puustinen.

Another big what if of this tournament is the goalie selection. Now, we won a bunch of preliminaires with Säteri, and he was quite solid vs. Czechia too, so we can't blame Jalonen for riding him as long as he did. But one can't help wondering if we'd gotten more points and a more favorable QF matchup with Larmi in net vs. Canada and Switzerland.

He would do fine with a stacked roster, sure! But if Finland gets an offensive minded coach, that would be scary.

I think the point of the very post you quoted is that Jalonen *is* an offensive minded coach when he has a roster that supports the mindset.

 

[bar1]

So... This was pretty much the best this team Finland could do on the ice. I would say this goes fully on the coaching and mostly for selecting these players to the squad. Only possibility was to turtle in this game just to have a chance. In the end Jalonen did what he could do against Sweden but the choices for players was WEAK and it is not about our NHL or top european guys who did not show up. Young talents are great but they need more support.

Let me explain:

* Many young guys who just did not seem to know anything about defending at this level. Puistola, Helenius, Kapanen etc. were just cones on the ice or even worse, rushed themselves out by themselves. Though Helenius with the nice stick lift which comically then ended up as a penalty.
* Many guys that excel in Liiga-level with their energy but really do not have the necessary tactical skills needed in international ice against the top competition. Hyry, Jääskä and I also got to say Puustinen even he plays in the NHL.
* Säteri was great in the first game, but so many softies in rest of the games to only have Larmi play this tough game. Larmi on goal against Switzerland at least could have made a difference and a confidence boost.
* Lehtonen was a disaster as a defensive puck holder. Nothing to add there. Kaski was ok against Sweden but through the tournament had same issues.
* Pulju still skating around the ice but also always outside the game. Works against weaker countries but oh man, nothing to show in tougher games.
* Fourth line was the only one doing their job with Björninen, Mäenalanen and Pakarinen grinding.
* Innala was actually quite good. Määttä was ok.
* All defence except Määttä lost almost every single puck battle. So defensively soft guys. Would need a actually good defender to every pair.

So there it is, only option was to turtle and grind. Although the showed in last minutes they can also play a bit.

I'm ok with the result with this team. Showed up in the last game.

Still... It's the fault of Jalonen that we had this physically and tactically weak team. Nothing to take away from his accomplishments.