Puck Daddy: Team Europe World Cup players frustrated with format

[1Gold Standard]

So if that comes to pass then it's only one nation with their actual best roster. Seeing some of the posts around here though, I'm guessing we would still see some people supporting further gimmicks as long as the NHL tells them to.

I certainly hope it does come to pass, but they are probably just playing hardball for a bigger slice of the revenue pile.

Which is why we have the gimmicky teams to begin with, 2 less Federations the NHL has to cut in on the profits... and which is why I'm skeptical about this whole it's a 1 off thing and there wasn't time for qualifiers bit...if it flies, then it's here for good...which is why I hope it flops...and flops beautifully.

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

 

[1Gold Standard]

In North American junior leagues, to quote him precisely. So no Russians playing in Russia would participate in the World Cup at all if the KHL gets its way. Strictly NHLers and CHLers.

correct. i.e. Ivan Provorov. would be a lock in that case.

 

[Theokritos]

Favourite sentence from the interview:

"Did anybody ask us whether September fits us or not? No. So why should we obediently build around someone else's schedule?"​

Where have I heard this before?

 

[xxxx]

So if that comes to pass then it's only one nation with their actual best roster. Seeing some of the posts around here though, I'm guessing we would still see some people supporting further gimmicks as long as the NHL tells them to.

Neither the NHL nor Bettman tell me what to do or what to think. I'm gonna watch because of hockey. And I want Canada to win. And I believe it will be exciting and maybe one of the best hockey in history.

I've mentioned many times that I would rather like the usual version of WorldCup, but that it could be an interesting and exciting thing to try at least. It's a different format, and while some things are unorthodox, it's still FAR better tournament than so-called World Championships, and the closest thing to best-on-best you can get, that is without a question.


Second, didn't Tretiak alone said that the KHL players should participate? And guess what, Tretiak is the president of Ice hockey federation in Russia. I know the KHL is a different animal, but still.

 

[Maverick41]

Neither the NHL nor Bettman tell me what to do or what to think. I'm gonna watch because of hockey. And I want Canada to win. And I believe it will be exciting and maybe one of the best hockey in history.

I've mentioned many times that I would rather like the usual version of WorldCup, but that it could be an interesting and exciting thing to try at least. It's a different format, and while some things are unorthodox, it's still FAR better tournament than so-called World Championships, and the closest thing to best-on-best you can get, that is without a question.


Second, didn't Tretiak alone said that the KHL players should participate? And guess what, Tretiak is the president of Ice hockey federation in Russia. I know the KHL is a different animal, but still.

That actually depends on your preference. I have no doubt it is true for you and a lot of other hockey fans. And just in respect of the quality of hockey skills I totally agree.
But even if Germany had its own team in this World Cup my personal excitement level would be much lower than it would be during a World Championship.
That could only change over time, if the World Cup is held regularly and without so called gimmick teams.

I think those who don't like the tournament and how it's done, should try to ignore it and those who like it should just sit back and enjoy it.

Of course all this is just my opinion and not some universal truth.

 

[FiLe]

If the KHL sticks to its guns, it could - somewhat ironically - be used to justify the gimmick teams. After all, Slovakia would be most severely crippled with no access to their KHLers, making their squad extremely lopsided with having a pair of solid units and then a steep drop in quality for the bottom-six.

 

[xxxx]

Maybe they shouldn't call it World Cup, Idk ....but how is not exciting to see the Youngsters playing against Sweden or Russia? I mean, I'm gonna be a huge fan of that team when they play the European teams. You're kidding yourself if you don't want to watch Monahan and McDavid kick some Finland's or Russian's ***** I mean, wouldn't that be awesome

 

[Gaps]

Maybe they shouldn't call it World Cup, Idk ....but how is not exciting to see the Youngsters playing against Sweden or Russia? I mean, I'm gonna be a huge fan of that team when they play the European teams. You're kidding yourself if you don't want to watch Monahan and McDavid kick some Finland's or Russian's ***** I mean, wouldn't that be awesome

You might as well be asking "How is it not exciting to see Team Born in 1980 play Team Right-Handed?", my answer would be the same: it's not exciting because they are made-up teams instead of national teams, have little in common and make a mockery out of international hockey. I wouldn't be bothered b a tournament like this if there was no threat that it's going to replace actual best-on-best Olympics. I still wouldn't watch it because it'd still be ridiculous, but anyway.

 

[Jon Riley]

it's still FAR better tournament than so-called World Championships, and the closest thing to best-on-best you can get, that is without a question.

Compared to the World Championships, in this tournamente you will not find something fundamental for what is my idea of interesting sport: the competitive spirit.
You have the leftowers that could not care less of the tournament.
You have Finland, Russia and Czech Republic that would not even be close to have their best rosters, plus the players involved knows that nobody home cares about it.
You have the team minor that, even packed with talent, if it was a real best-on-best tournament would not be even close to be competive enough. Like it happens in every single sport out there, experience is a big part of someone's skills.
Canada and USA can not use some of their best players, this may not affect the overall strenght of the teams, but for sure invalidate the claim of the "best on best".

You will have a nice and shiny All-Star-Tournament right before the start of the season with a lot of players that will actively try not to get hurt. Probably will be entertaining, for sure is not goin to be even close to a best on best tournament.
You may have great match attendance, which is what Bettman & co. cares about, but still no international relevance whatsoever.

As I said before, if this does not affect the Olympics, that fine by me.

 

[xxxx]

You have the leftowers that could not care less of the tournament.

well, that is, like, your opinion. Until you see them play, you don't know.

You have Finland, Russia and Czech Republic that would not even be close to have their best rosters,

what? what players would they be missing if the KHL did not release their players? I bolded this part, because that is not an official news whatsoever. And if KHL does release its players, which is much more likely imo, this argument doesn't exist anymore.

plus the players involved knows that nobody home cares about it.

That is a lie from top to bottom. First, the players care, and it's not true that nobody cares.

You have the team minor that, even packed with talent, if it was a real best-on-best tournament would not be even close to be competive enough. Like it happens in every single sport out there, experience is a big part of someone's skills.

I guess that is about to be seen. And we're not talking about U-20 team.

Frankly, this team is going to have better offensive roster than what Finland's gonna ice. Not sure how much you know about those forwards. McDavid, MacKinnon, and Saad would be a great line on any nhl team right now, and a #1 line on many of them. Yet, this NA team might very well have a Gaudreau-Monahan-Eichel, where the first two already play against top NHL defensemen and they're quite successful. And I even didn't mention players like Couturier, Nugent-Hopkins, or Scheifele. Most of those players already face the best offensive or defensive players in the NHL.

Canada and USA can not use some of their best players, this may not affect the overall strenght of the teams, but for sure invalidate the claim of the "best on best".

I agree that this should've been done a bit differently and they should've given the right to pick the best players to Canada and US to avoid this situation. But on a positive note it makes the NA team stronger and it really doesn't change that much on the actual canadian and american rosters. And I guess it gets me even more excited when I'm not only gonna be a fan of Team Canada, but I will definitely want to see the NA to win.

You will have a nice and shiny All-Star-Tournament right before the start of the season with a lot of players that will actively try not to get hurt.

I strongly disagree with this statement. There isn't going to be anything like this. I believe they'll be playing with their best effort and heart. There is no "I-hope-I-won't-get-hurt" when you wear your nation's jersey. Especially not when you're from Canada or United States, you can bet on that.

 

[Theokritos]

There is no "I-hope-I-won't-get-hurt" when you wear your nation's jersey.

Or your beloved rest of Europe jersey. Or the jersey of your proud nation North America Under 23.

 

[xxxx]

I'm just saying that a thought of Crosby worring about being injured (and who else should be worried more) when playing for Canada is ridiculous. Of course he won't skate crazy straight into the boards lol, but he won't avoid hits just to be healthy for Pittsburgh roster. And the similar applies to Zetterberg or Ovechkin. I think many people just don't understand. These players will get every chance they get to show they are the best. You don't have a tournament like this every year. Any player, from Sweden, or Russia, or USA, is gonna want to win this. This is not an EA Sports game, they won't have such an opportunity just like that tomorrow again.

 

[FiLe]

what? what players would they be missing if the KHL did not release their players? I bolded this part, because that is not an official news whatsoever. And if KHL does release its players, which is much more likely imo, this argument doesn't exist anymore.

Sure, if you count the AHLers and such, all countries mentioned have enough talent playing in North America to field a full roster. But Russia would be missing players like Kovalchuk, Radulov and half their regular defense. Finland would be missing half their regular defense. And about a third of the Czech squad in Sochi was made up of players in Euro leagues so that shows a clear preference to them as well over some of their fringe-role NHLers.

And about the KHL not releasing players? I wouldn't be so sure. First of all, you can be pretty damn sure the KHL is not going to retool its schedule around the World Cup. And they won't break, because they wouldn't like to have 95 per cent of their players sitting at home with their thumbs up their hind sides while a select few play a rival league's marketing mannequins. And given how those select few will pretty much be the key guys of their respective teams, what are the odds they get to go either? Their primary allegiance should be to the guys who pay their salaries.

Replace the KHL with "NHL" and you pretty much got the argument that was presented when it was suggested that a select few of the NHLers could negotiate a special permission to play in the Olympics if the league does not release its players as a whole.

That is a lie from top to bottom. First, the players care, and it's not true that nobody cares.

Not a lie, more like a generalizing statement. This tournament will NOT have a huge following in Europe, and the players know it, so they will be playing mostly for their own amusement. Sure, they have enough professional pride not to mail in it, but play as hard as they play in the Olympics when they know their entire nation will be watching? Not so likely.

You may be excited - and good for you - but apart from a meager handful of outliers, the response to this thing here in old Yurop has ranged from indifference to open hostility. And I hope you don't think the players won't be aware, given that they, too, have a ready access to the Internet and can check the news and see what's the word in their preferred social media channels at any given time.

I strongly disagree with this statement. There isn't going to be anything like this. I believe they'll be playing with their best effort and heart. There is no "I-hope-I-won't-get-hurt" when you wear your nation's jersey. Especially not when you're from Canada or United States, you can bet on that.

"Believe" is the key word here. Because that's what all your arguments are based on. Beliefs. They're something you can't prove nor disprove. Just like the age-old "is there life after death?" we will only know (or be in a state where knowing is irrelevant) once the thing comes to pass. Before then, your argument would be better presented in a philosophy class than this particular discussion.

 

[Jon Riley]

FiLe answered perfectly to those questions.
I just have to add that "beliefs" is also what I have. It is my opinion that this will be nothing but an exibition were you will see good skills but not enough competitive spirit to be a real tournament, I may be mistaken. I do not understand how people could see the potential for some "real" hockey here, but it may just well be my fault. We will see.
Except on the part were I state that nobody* in Europe cares about this tournament, that is a fact hardly disprovable.

*Ok, let's be punctilious, "nobody" is technically not correct. I used an hyperbole, you know, that rethorical device that is ment to give emphasis to a statement. Let's say that very few people know that this tournament even exists and even less cares about it.

 

[JackSlater]

I'm just saying that a thought of Crosby worring about being injured (and who else should be worried more) when playing for Canada is ridiculous. Of course he won't skate crazy straight into the boards lol, but he won't avoid hits just to be healthy for Pittsburgh roster. And the similar applies to Zetterberg or Ovechkin. I think many people just don't understand. These players will get every chance they get to show they are the best. You don't have a tournament like this every year. Any player, from Sweden, or Russia, or USA, is gonna want to win this. This is not an EA Sports game, they won't have such an opportunity just like that tomorrow again.

Several fans have used that statement (players won't try early in the year) as an argument against this tournament, but it's completely invalid. They are basically ignoring the fact that this tournament has been played before the season before, and players have gone all out repeatedly. I hate this incarnation of the tournament, but its timing is not an issue.

 

[FiLe]

Several fans have used that statement (players won't try early in the year) as an argument against this tournament, but it's completely invalid. They are basically ignoring the fact that this tournament has been played before the season before, and players have gone all out repeatedly. I hate this incarnation of the tournament, but its timing is not an issue.

Have to agree. Timing is pretty much entirely irrelevant if the games just are meaningful. If the players figure the prize and glory will be worth it, they'll work towards it no matter what.

It's that meaningfulness that can be placed in question, however. The gimmick teams, lack of support from other leagues, lack of support from fans, possibly unenthusiastic atmosphere in the arena due to expensive tickets... there are plenty of factors that may make this not feel like a "proper" international tournament, even from the players' POV.

However, when you add the timing on top of these things, it may work as an additional deterrent. Because it'd be a bummer to get hurt so close to the actual season's start in a silly exhibition tournament. Guess we'll see.

 

[garbageteam]

This isn't best on best hockey, and anything that knows anything about hockey outside of the narrow minded continental scope would understand that. 2 arbitrarily made up teams and SIX handicapped teams..there isn't a single team in the entire tournament that would stack up to an Olympic selection - US and Canada will be robbed of a few legitimate U23 stars, Fin, Cze, Rus and Swe will lose out on KHL players and let's not even get into the Joke A and Joke B.

The 2015 WCs was more of a best-on-best than this will be, and carries far more legitimacy. This is a sad joke and it's kind of embarrassing for ice hockey, and no other major international sport would pull this off without being laughed at. I'll be watching the 2016 WCs and and the 2016 SC Playoffs, but hockey won't begin or exist at all for me until October 2016 again. I probably won't even know who won unless TSN is still talking about it when NHL season starts (and I hope one of the joke teams won just for laughs...and no one showed up... and they won't attempt this disaster again and will quickly commit to the 2018 Olympics).

And this is coming from a Canadian hockey fan that follows and watches Canadian hockey teams... people need to expand their horizons and respect the rest of the world a little more

 

[FiLe]

This isn't best on best hockey, and anything that knows anything about hockey outside of the narrow minded continental scope would understand that. 2 arbitrarily made up teams and SIX handicapped teams..there isn't a single team in the entire tournament that would stack up to an Olympic selection - US and Canada will be robbed of a few legitimate U23 stars, Fin, Cze, Rus and Swe will lose out on KHL players and let's not even get into the Joke A and Joke B.

Well, frankly, Sweden can get to their Olympic selection using just NHLers. They don't have to rely on the KHL at all. Usually their teams have included some kind of "character player" from Europe, but nothing they can't replace from their NA stock.

Rest of the euro teams however... if the KHL shuts the door, Russia will have to do without a bunch of their brightest stars even. Finland will be losing some reliable workhorses from their bottom units and have to make do with AHL hopefuls. Same goes for the Czechs.

 

[Hardyvan123]

If the KHL sticks to its guns, it could - somewhat ironically - be used to justify the gimmick teams. After all, Slovakia would be most severely crippled with no access to their KHLers, making their squad extremely lopsided with having a pair of solid units and then a steep drop in quality for the bottom-six.

The "gimmick" teams don't need justifying.

the quality of play from Team Europe and the NAU23 is going to be really good despite the naysayers around these parts.

We have already seen how good McDavid and Echiel and other young players are right now and it a years time it will be even better.

The title of the article is extremely misleading as well.

 

[Zine]

The "gimmick" teams don't need justifying.

the quality of play from Team Europe and the NAU23 is going to be really good despite the naysayers around these parts.

We have already seen how good McDavid and Echiel and other young players are right now and it a years time it will be even better.

The title of the article is extremely misleading as well.

Team Leftovers and Team Young Gunzzzz!!!!! will bring a lot of talent to the tourney, but that doesn't ensure a higher quality of play.

Just look at the NHL's 'international' all-star games from 1998-2002 as an example.
International themed gimmick teams (Euro vs NA) + insanely talented rosters = crappy and sloppy on ice product.

 

[FiLe]

The "gimmick" teams don't need justifying.

the quality of play from Team Europe and the NAU23 is going to be really good despite the naysayers around these parts.

When you have what is supposed to be an international tournament, it is the norm for all participants to be national teams. Any deviation from this formula is an anomaly, and is going to need justification as such. This is a fact you can't overturn no matter how long you keep hands on your ears and naysay.

The justification needs to be extra strong, if one can add actual NTs that fill the quality requirements of the tournament and yet resorts to veering from the tradition. Such is the case here. And no, "marketing purposes"... or, if we put it more crassly, "some dumb hick from the backwoods can't recognize half the players playing for Slovakia and Switzerland" - the NHL's interpretation, not mine - is very assuredly not a valid reason. If you disagree, then I guess you have a personal stake in the matter.

In simpler words, the "quality" of these squads is irrelevant, because they still aren't - and never will be - national teams. Their inclusion was and is a royal brainfart, especially since you could have two fully able and competitive NTs in their stead. If you're unable to see this, well, that only means the joke's on you.

However, if all the other leagues refuse to support the NHL's attempt at playing a world hockey body (in order to provide enough players for the excluded NTs - and some of the included ones), then I guess they'll need to resort to creative solutions to bring enough teams to the table. Because, for all their might, the NHL can't organize a proper international tournament if they try to do it all alone. Anomalies are required, and therefore they're also at least somewhat justified.

---

And even if you disagree with all this, you're still in the wrong - and conradicting yourself, to the boot. Because "the quality of play for the Leftovers and YoungGunz is better than Slovakia and Switzerland" is a justification in and of itself. You certainly wouldn't feel the need to parrot that line if you felt the inclusion of said teams is natural and needs no justifications whatsoever. The thing is, it's just not a very good one.

 

[roto]

I've said this before, but I tell it again. NHL doesn't care if it's a legitimate international tournament or not. The purpose of the tournament is to make money. World Cup is an NHL all-stars event disguised as international tournament. By having gimmick teams NHL is able is get all the best NHL players to the tournament. The name of the tournament should be "NHL World Cup" instead.

I don't care to complain how NHL wasn't able to arrange a proper tournament. They could've done it if they'd wanted, but they didn't. Respectively I could watch this tournament just for fun, but I won't.

In Finland the tournament is shown by pay-tv and likely even the games of team Finland are not shown for free. It means that only some hardcore fans having subscribed Viasat will watch it and talk about it. WC 2004 was shown for free in Finland and still there was no hype and very few talked about it. It's very hard to believe that the tournament would get traction here.

On the other hand there can't be a good tournament without fans. How much will there be European fans in Toronto especially when the tickets will be expensive? Who would pay for tickets to some Finland vs NA U23 game anyway? What's the World Cup win worth of? I can guess the future discussions already now. "Winning this gimmicky tournament proves nothing as it's just a preseason exhibition tournament". "Didn't care" cards are already on the table ready for use.

 

[QnebO]

I'm just saying that a thought of Crosby worring about being injured (and who else should be worried more) when playing for Canada is ridiculous. Of course he won't skate crazy straight into the boards lol, but he won't avoid hits just to be healthy for Pittsburgh roster. And the similar applies to Zetterberg or Ovechkin. I think many people just don't understand. These players will get every chance they get to show they are the best. You don't have a tournament like this every year. Any player, from Sweden, or Russia, or USA, is gonna want to win this. This is not an EA Sports game, they won't have such an opportunity just like that tomorrow again.

You make it sound like it was Olympics. Get real. They screwed up the legacy. They had the chance to make it right but they blew it.

I don't care if NHL doesn't care about international hockey, they're still wrong and I am right about how this tournament should be arranged. Joke teams out, Slovaks & Swiss in.

This is not a tournament, where in case of victory people would go to drink booze at the market place and swim naked and take free days from work to have the hangover. If an underdog team wins it all, it's not going to feel like the Leafs winning the stanley cup. It'll be a "meh" moment.

 

[Burke the Legend]

I said it before but I'll say it again, just do an 8 game CAN-USA super series. It won't have roster problems, and might actually generate some intensity. But then the NHL wouldn't be able to soak Torontonians for 17 game ticket packages.

 

[Metalcommand]

Just let the Olympics be Olympics maaaaan. It's such a different thing to bring Olympic Gold to your country than just winning World Cup. Maybe it could one day be the same if it was a legit tournament, not with gimmick teams.

Sure it will be cool to see how Europe and Young Guns do but it's not legit. It's just a joke. No matter how you slice it. They said next time there will be no gimmick teams, why have them now? You are trying to reboot this tournament that already had no meaning to anyone but Canadians and maybe Americans that was irregularly organized, instead of doing it right you create this abomination. Why not have a good nation against nation tournament?

Imagine if the Hockey World Cup is won by U23 Young Guns or Europe All Stars. What a joke.