Puck Daddy: Team Europe World Cup players frustrated with format

[FiLe]

Oh, wait, the same year there was this country called Belarus..

That was actually four years later from the Czech triumph, if we wish to be pedant. But I guess that's a minor detail. It might as well have been 2000 years ago, and Tommy Salo still wouldn't have lived it down.

I've been making this point for months. People aren't listening...this whole thing is a one off. People just need to deal with it and accept it for what it is. 2019 will have qualifiers for nations, and people can finally shut up about this

And every time you've been countered with the same fact: None of the previous Canada/World Cups have had qualifiers either. And yet they didn't feature any kind of gimmick teams. Why you keep ignoring this point, presented to you multiple times by multiple people? The lack of qualifiers are not an excuse.

People aren't listening, indeed. But not those you probably referred to.

 

[xxxx]

Winning this exhibition tournament won't even rank near the top 1000 acheivements in Canada let along in other countries where no one cares about this tournament.

One month earlier there's something called the Summer Olympics on. Winning an Olympic medal in whichever sport is an achievement of true sporting glory. Winning in this tournament won't be remembered by a single soul Worldwide 2 weeks later.

I imagine even the people of Canada don't take this tournament seriously from the postings I read around here.

I'm sure 10 posters here represent Canada. Go read some other forums, I read the Chicago Blackhawks forum on HF just to have another perspective, and found many canadians and americans who like the tournament.

 

[JackSlater]

I've been making this point for months. People aren't listening...this whole thing is a one off. People just need to deal with it and accept it for what it is. 2019 will have qualifiers for nations, and people can finally shut up about this

Why does anyone believe that weak excuse the NHL put out? This tournament has been played with all national teams before without qualifiers, and they certainly didn't have qualifiers for the six national teams that will be participating.

That this idiocy is a one off doesn't do anything to make this edition of the tournament less of a joke.

 

[xxxx]

Why is there some canadian saying what Finnish people think of this? Winning this would be viewed as smaller achievement by general population than winning floor ball WC or ice hockey WHC. It is what is is. Gimmick tournament. Don't even bother bringing up Olympic medals which are so far away more valuable it's not even worth our time to talk about.

Even though Henrik Sedin said the World Cup is right there with the olympics?

 

[xxxx]

You know, that's actually for us to determine, not for you. We Finns, and only we, decide the thing we cherish the most. Not a single Canadian, nor American, nor Swede has jack to say that. And that is good, because most of them seem to have no idea what makes us tick. And I ain't gonna tell you which of your multiple CC, WC and OG golds you should think the best. Because that, in turn, is up to you.

For the record, right now it's mostly a hot debate between the the silver in Turin and the gold in the 1995 WHC - a contest that involved no NHLers whatsoever. It also serves us a solid example on how eccentric we can be. You really have no friggin' clue about the things we value - so please. Just. Shut. Up.

I didn't want to come around as arrogant as it might seem to you, sorry about that.

Second, you are completely right, you decide what matters to you.


But, for me, it holds some certain value what the players that actually play the game, find prestigious and what effort they put into games like this. That is what matters to me. World Cup is and will be the type of a tournament the players simply will be taking seriously, believe it or not. You can feel it when it means something for players. You can see it on the ice. I could watch an NHL All-star game, without knowing it's an All-Star game, and then NHL regular season game, without knowing what exactly I'm watching, and I can tell you right away what game players did or did not take seriously.

So, my opinion, as stated earlier, that if Finlad won the tournament, it would be the biggest win in their history, is exactly that, my opinion. And I'm pretty sure that your national players would think very highly about that win. Take an example. Russia wins it. You can find here many russian posters who probably don't care/take seriously this tournament at all. But. When Russia wins, what do you think would Ovechkin say? I'm pretty sure it would be the biggest win for Russia in his lifetime, and for him the biggest win in his career, you can be 110% sure about that. So if some russians here still said that it didn't mean anything for Russia, first - I wouldn't believe it that much. Again, even for Russia, that win, in Toronto, in Canada, I just don't believe it wouldn't mean something, I don't believe it. Second - I don't even care. Ovechkin would find it big, and that's what matters to me, that's what tells me the truth. Because when you, a fan, ignore that your national player find a certain win or tournament big, then there must be something wrong. You basically preffer your own view and ignore what it actually means to players. I can't call myself a Team Canada fan, and not watch them and support them, when they obviously care about this tournament and want to win and put their heart into it.

 

[habsrule4eva3089]

Even though Henrik Sedin said the World Cup is right there with the olympics?

Sidney Crosby can go walk around in over 150 countries with a Gold medal around his neck and he'll be mobbed just because of that medal's signifcance.

You are saying that when he wins the exhibition cash grab tournament people will recogize anything?

It's right there says a Swede who's pretty much never said anything against the grain in his career like most boring Canadian Hockey players.

Wake up. This tournament is for one thing, MONEY. MONEY. MONEY.

You think if this was held at 4 am on a sunday in september close to 20 million Canadians would wake up to watch it like they do for the Olympics.

Common, get real. No one in this country gives a crap. Why would other nations.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Sidney Crosby can go walk around in over 150 countries with a Gold medal around his neck and he'll be mobbed just because of that medal's signifcance.

You are saying that when he wins the exhibition cash grab tournament people will recogize anything?

It's right there says a Swede who's pretty much never said anything against the grain in his career like most boring Canadian Hockey players.

Wake up. This tournament is for one thing, MONEY. MONEY. MONEY.

You think if this was held at 4 am on a sunday in september close to 20 million Canadians would wake up to watch it like they do for the Olympics.

Common, get real. No one in this country gives a crap. Why would other nations.

I seriously doubt it. Outside of anywhere in Canada and Pittsburgh, Sid would go unrecognized. Maybe a few hockey hot spots in Europe he'd run into a few hockey fans. But if you think he's getting the mobbed in countries such as Venezuela and a 149 others where hockey has no reach, I don't think so. And if he walked around with his gold medals? Sure, that would draw attention, but only from those who would want to steal them.

 

[JackSlater]

But, for me, it holds some certain value what the players that actually play the game, find prestigious and what effort they put into games like this. That is what matters to me. World Cup is and will be the type of a tournament the players simply will be taking seriously, believe it or not. You can feel it when it means something for players. You can see it on the ice. I could watch an NHL All-star game, without knowing it's an All-Star game, and then NHL regular season game, without knowing what exactly I'm watching, and I can tell you right away what game players did or did not take seriously.

So, my opinion, as stated earlier, that if Finlad won the tournament, it would be the biggest win in their history, is exactly that, my opinion. And I'm pretty sure that your national players would think very highly about that win. Take an example. Russia wins it. You can find here many russian posters who probably don't care/take seriously this tournament at all. But. When Russia wins, what do you think would Ovechkin say? I'm pretty sure it would be the biggest win for Russia in his lifetime, and for him the biggest win in his career, you can be 110% sure about that. So if some russians here still said that it didn't mean anything for Russia, first - I wouldn't believe it that much. Again, even for Russia, that win, in Toronto, in Canada, I just don't believe it wouldn't mean something, I don't believe it. Second - I don't even care. Ovechkin would find it big, and that's what matters to me, that's what tells me the truth. Because when you, a fan, ignore that your national player find a certain win or tournament big, then there must be something wrong. You basically preffer your own view and ignore what it actually means to players. I can't call myself a Team Canada fan, and not watch them and support them, when they obviously care about this tournament and want to win and put their heart into it.

Ah... just so we're clear... you don't actually know what the players think. Your conclusion, that you care because the players care, is built on the premise that they actually do completely care. As competitive athletes they probably will mostly care, but this is all just a bunch of your own assumptions fueling your conclusion. Whether other people choose to value it the same way you do, or share your unproven assumptions, is irrelevant.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Ah... just so we're clear... you don't actually know what the players think. Your conclusion, that you care because the players care, is built on the premise that they actually do completely care. As competitive athletes they probably will mostly care, but this is all just a bunch of your own assumptions fueling your conclusion. Whether other people choose to value it the same way you do, or share your unproven assumptions, is irrelevant.

and from a little earlier, I do get a charge from those who actually buy in to the NHL spin that there was no time for qualifiers and the gimmick teams are a one off. If this rakes in the $$$ and gets ratings, we are more likely to see the NHL add more gimmicky teams in the future than revert back to a traditional international tournament without gimmicky teams and with qualifiers.

and with qualifiers is the kicker. that always cracks me up. I'll believe that when I see it. Oh, and by the way, the cherry on top, is no more NHL Olympics.

Now, I must go tend to my fire wagon chili and watch the ball game. Go Jays Go.

 

[JackSlater]

and from a little earlier, I do get a charge from those who actually buy in to the NHL spin that there was no time for qualifiers and the gimmick teams are a one off. If this rakes in the $$$ and gets ratings, we are more likely to see the NHL add more gimmicky teams in the future than revert back to a traditional international tournament without gimmicky teams and with qualifiers.

and with qualifiers is the kicker. that always cracks me up. I'll believe that when I see it. Oh, and by the way, the cherry on top, is no more NHL Olympics.

Now, I must go tend to my fire wagon chili and watch the ball game. Go Jays Go.

I'm actually shocked at how many people today will apparently believe whatever the NHL says. They're doing this to avoid blowouts... there wasn't enough time for qualifiers... yeah, those are logical statements.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

You can say what *you* think it is, sure. But it sure has seemed for the last couple of pages you've been trying to dictate what us Finns should think it is.

And that's something you can't do, plain and simple. So still won't be a big thing, sorry.

I haven't dictated anything, just making a pretty obvious prediction.

 

[habsrule4eva3089]

I seriously doubt it. Outside of anywhere in Canada and Pittsburgh, Sid would go unrecognized. Maybe a few hockey hot spots in Europe he'd run into a few hockey fans. But if you think he's getting the mobbed in countries such as Venezuela and a 149 others where hockey has no reach, I don't think so. And if he walked around with his gold medals? Sure, that would draw attention, but only from those who would want to steal them.

An Olympic Gold medal is a big deal everywhere, you can be an equastrian athlete, it commends a deal of respect and honour, the hightest in sport possible. In the context he's talking about yes it would be stolen though lol.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

It might as well have been 2000 years ago, and Tommy Salo still wouldn't have lived it down.

ruotsinsuomalaiset

His parents are from Finland and my wife's family know them. Sverigefinnar are one way Swedes stay familiar with the Finnish mindset.

 

[FiLe]

I haven't dictated anything, just making a pretty obvious prediction.

Which every Finn thus far visiting in this thread have shot down. How many more do you need before you start to believe that they know better than you or the missus?

Or are you one of those people who just can't take it when they're being told they're wrong?

 

[FiLe]

His parents are from Finland and my wife's family know them. Sverigefinnar are one way Swedes stay familiar with the Finnish mindset.

This is so damn hilarious. You're actually saying that because you have a Swedish wife and know some people who know some Finnish immigrants, you know things better than actual Finns?

I wonder how you would respond if I married an American and on account of that, saw it fit to shovel some dung down your Canadian throat, claiming I'm fully in the know now...

 

[1Gold Standard]

An Olympic Gold medal is a big deal everywhere, you can be an equastrian athlete, it commends a deal of respect and honour, the hightest in sport possible. In the context he's talking about yes it would be stolen though lol.

Ya, and I wouldn't recognize a gold medal winning equestrian athlete if he/she isn't standing underneath a sign boasting of the accomplishment. And a taxi-driver and football fall in Caracas wouldn't recognize Sid if he picked him up at the airport...hell, Sid could be in full Team Canada gear and the cabbie still wouldn't know what he was looking at.

 

[xxxx]

Ah... just so we're clear... you don't actually know what the players think. Your conclusion, that you care because the players care, is built on the premise that they actually do completely care. As competitive athletes they probably will mostly care, but this is all just a bunch of your own assumptions fueling your conclusion. Whether other people choose to value it the same way you do, or share your unproven assumptions, is irrelevant.

No, I don't know what they think, but I see what they do.

 

[FiLe]

I didn't want to come around as arrogant as it might seem to you, sorry about that.

Second, you are completely right, you decide what matters to you.


But, for me, it holds some certain value what the players that actually play the game, find prestigious and what effort they put into games like this. That is what matters to me. World Cup is and will be the type of a tournament the players simply will be taking seriously, believe it or not. You can feel it when it means something for players. You can see it on the ice. I could watch an NHL All-star game, without knowing it's an All-Star game, and then NHL regular season game, without knowing what exactly I'm watching, and I can tell you right away what game players did or did not take seriously.

That's actually one of the fairest opinions I've come across lately. It's still just an opinion however, rooted on how you believe things are rather than what they actually may be, but I can respect that regardless.

Also let it be said that while this won't be a big thing to the Finnish audiences, I never wished to indicate that will lead it to the Finnish players completely mailing it in. It may take some step out of them, but never enough to completely stop playing. You certainly won't be fighting tooth-for-tooth, nail-for-nail for every damn puck if you know that back home, there will be very little to no people giving a damn, but the thing they can't take away is an individual players' professional pride. And yeah, the jersey matters too. It's still your national logo on there, and you will disgrace it if you don't even try to win - no matter whether someone is watching or not.

Too bad that this is actually such a two-edged argument when this particular tournament is concerned. Because for the Leftover team, it's just NOT there. And this is also something that IMO matters more than having a more "competitive" roster on paper - putting the participating players at an uneven standing on the mental side. After all, difference in skill between various teams is kind of given in any competition, but not giving them all the same opportunity to get inspired? That's unheard of. And a disgrace.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

This is so damn hilarious. You're actually saying that because you have a Swedish wife and know some people who know some Finnish immigrants, you know things better than actual Finns?

I wonder how you would respond if I married an American and on account of that, saw it fit to shovel some dung down your Canadian throat, claiming I'm fully in the know now...

Just showing how ridiculous your claim was that I was clueless about Finland

 

[JackSlater]

No, I don't know what they think, but I see what they do.

You see what they do and then you one again form your own opinions, which are still not facts. Considering that no games have been played, your near-magical ability to understand exactly what players are thinking by watching them play hockey is not sufficient to prove anything about this tournament yet.

An Olympic Gold medal is a big deal everywhere, you can be an equastrian athlete, it commends a deal of respect and honour, the hightest in sport possible. In the context he's talking about yes it would be stolen though lol.

An Olympic gold medal is not the default biggest honour in a given sport. This is true for several of the biggest sports at the Olympics. That this tournament is going to be a joke at least leaves the Olympics as the unquestioned top prize in international hockey though, should NHL participation continue.

 

[FiLe]

Just showing how ridiculous your claim was that I was clueless about Finland

All you've told me is that you know people who know people. But that's not equal to showing me you know the facts.

In fact, if you did, I fully expect you would just give me those instead of stuff like "my wife's grandma's gardener is from Finland". Thus far that's all I've got from you, along with some deeply-rooted personal opinion.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

All you've told me is that you know people who know people. But that's not equal to showing me you know the facts.

In fact, if you did, I fully expect you would just give me those instead of stuff like "my wife's grandma's gardener is from Finland". Thus far that's all I've got from you, along with some deeply-rooted personal opinion.

you know I'm right

 

[FiLe]

you know I'm right

All I know is you're playing "six degrees of Kevin Bacon" with me and trying to substitute that for an argument.

And I'm not the only Finn here telling you it's you who is dead wrong.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

All I know is you're playing "six degrees of Kevin Bacon" with me and trying to substitute that for an argument.

And I'm not the only Finn here telling you it's you who is dead wrong.

you know the truth, just don't want to admit it

 

[FiLe]

you know the truth, just don't want to admit it

Okay. If you're so sure the truth is out there, why don't you go out there and get it then? C'mon, expose it right in front of me, so we can put this ghost to rest. I'll be waiting right here.