Pro Tank Thread "You said that we'd be better now, better now. But you always let us down."

[Curmudgeon]

It's honestly sad that you people have convinced yourselves that anti-Benning people aren't fans of the team. You're so desperate for positivity that you'll ignore the glaring missteps and dangerous decision-making that has made this rebuild so painful to watch.

I don't cheer against this team because Benning's running it. I cheer against it because that's the best thing for the team right now. We need at least 2 more top talent impact players at a bare minimum before we should even be thinking about starting to add in holes to the fourth line. Hughes looks great but we need at least one more top piece on the right side because OJ's not gonna cut it. And another elite forward should differentiate us from the pack as well.

In the meantime Benning has anchored us to several painful contracts like LE21, JB83, BS20, EG44 and set us back multiple times like the McCann trade and Bonino trade. Not to mention not trading Hamhuis or Vrbata. The team he has assembled and promised would scrape us into the playoffs is the worst in the league. He hasn't acquired draft picks. His performance has been embarrassing and in return I want to see his veterans get pummeled until he's fired.

I stopped at the bolded part. You need to do you're homework, I've been pretty clear with my opinion of the poor trades and signings and that Benning should have been fired in addition to not subscribing to what appears to be a pro vs anti Benning tribal mentality among too many on this site. This isn't even a nice try on your part.

See, here we go again. Oh yeah, we just hate Benning for no reason, right? You think the fact the team keeps losing anyway is totally beside the point?

We are spiteful because Benning is a terrible gm who has sent the Canucks to the bottom of the league while trying to ice a competitive team and failing.

I mean, how hard is that to understand? No, cheering for losses isn't fun. I wish I didn't. Really. I wish I had some glimmer of faith in Benning and Weisbrod but I don't. All they've shown is they know how to create a team bad enough to get high draft picks. A couple of fluke successes in Boeser and Pettersson shouldn't justify them remaining because:

1. I don't believe they can assess talent and certainly not pro talent well enough to assemble a good team,
2. I don't believe Benning can make enough good trades that will improve the team,
3. I don't believe they can negotiate contracts well enough within the salary cap,
4. I don't believe players will be properly diagnosed and treated when they get injured,

...and those are issues I don't think will go away. I didn't think these things when Benning took over, but I've reached these conclusions based on what I've seen and heard from them since 2014.

As for the other draft picks, well hey, tell me how they turned out from the 2014, 2015 and 2016 draft years. Go on, tell me.

I was commenting about a specific poster and their schtick being about negativity since their posting history suggests they aren't even capable of acknowledging the few positives that have emerged, especially with respect to Pettersson. Other than that, feel free to check my posting history, I think I've been pretty forthcoming with my own negative takes but at least my comments aren't without balance. You make some valid points here that I've agreed with along the way and while the cupboard was virtually empty of quality prospects prior to 2014, it doesn't excuse Benning and the team from the stupid moves or change the opinion I shared previously that, yes, he should have been fired.

Are you suggesting there's a plethora of picks making meaningful contributions around the league from throughout those drafts? If so, that's plain wrong.

2014 still has 3 players that could help the team with 2 stupid moves giving away NHL caliber players. Aside from the 1st round, there's only Montour and Dvorek chosen after Demko in the 2nd round making any noise. Point and now Foegele drafted after Tryamkin. Arvidsson and Heinen drafted in the 4th when the Canucks didn't have a pick and not a ton after that other than Labanc and Kase. Yes, giving McCann and Forsling were bad moves and hurt the team.

2015 has a potential star in Boeser, another that should make it as a regular in Gaudette, and maybe two more that might get some time in. Giving up that 2nd rounder hurt but other than Dunn, Malgin, and Nutivaara, there hasn't been anything of substance from the rest of that draft as of yet after the 2nd slot they dealt.

In 2016, Juolevi was the wrong pick and you won't find anybody that says otherwise. Lockwood still looks like a player but again, dealing the 2nd and not having a shot at DeBrincat, Girard, or Dube hurt but other than Bratt and Mete, it's still early too early to gauge what else they missed on but that for sure was a poor draft.

 

[Curmudgeon]

You don't have a coach who is fond developing young players, preferably playing veterans to win meaningless games. He did it last year, he did it in Utica the year before.

About your question, we had a bunch of good picks (wasting a lot of them in moronic trades), got a good stable of young players and we are one of the worst teams in the NIL last three years.

And outside of Boeser and Pettersson, would you receive an amazing offer for any other player beside Hughes, who is a fresh high 1st round pick?

No doubt, I agree with your points and have to admit I was pretty pissed at Green when he was playing Sutter, Gagner, and Jokinen, of all players, so much trying to eek out every point he could. That was terrible.

As far as amazing offers for players, aside from Horvat I doubt you would get any and that includes Tanev but that's where the team is right now. However, there's nothing wrong with being excited about those young players, cheering them on and being entertained as they progress, and the potential of some of the others in anticipation of another high pick next spring. That's a long way from cheering for embarrassing losses because you want a GM fired when that may or may not actually occur any time soon despite the previous mistakes. I can separate the two and can appreciate others can't but some are plain ridiculous.

 

[Curmudgeon]

3 years seems like an incredible stretch, in my opinion.

As I mentioned before, outside of EP40, BB6, and BH53, the forward group we have is below average at best. Those three are the sole reasons this current team is marginally more watchable than 10 hour footage of paint drying.

Defense is a complete and utter nightmare. Edler and Tanev can barely hold the line, while the rest run around like chickens with their heads cut off. And I'm not even gonna mention our goalie situation.

Competing for playoff spot is ****ing useless unless team has a legit shot at the cup, or if the team has enough platinum level talents who could benefit from the experience - which will be nigh useless if said team gets bounced in round 1 year after year.

The only way this team could even dream about having the remotest possibility of being a legit playoff team is if literally EVERYTHING works out the best possible way - Tryamkin returns, OJ turn it around, Q. Hughes becomes a top pair D, Edler/Tanev do not decline TOO much, we win the draft with more platinum talents, Demko becomes top tier goalie.

This "best case scenario will happen 100% of the time so I better double or triple down on it" type of thinking is exactly what got this team into its current embarrassing shape.

You may be right, I was just throwing 3 years out there. Yes, the defense is a nightmare but it wasn't as though there were any home runs to improve it last summer, unfortunately, and another poster offered up Moore and Cole, there's merit to that and I could see those two at least being smaller upgrades. It goes to show you how much wasting those 2nd rounders and gifting Forsling to Chicago hurt the prospect pool on the back end let alone passing up on MacAvoy and Sergachev for Juolevi. I made a similar comment earlier as to Tryamkin and the other prospects and they do need to pray Demko is the real deal.

In my opinion, the type of thinking they were using was around rebuilding on the fly with an owner mandated playoff gate or two every year. That's pretty lucrative cash for Aquilini. They've really crapped out on some of the moves though.

In the meantime, I'm really enjoying watching Pettersson. It looks like they won the lottery on that one and the prospect of him replicating the proven chemistry with Dahlen, hopefully Goldobin's play continuing, Hughes joining the team later this season, and a very high pick next spring at least provides reason for optimism. The Pettersson/Hughes combination is really something to look forward to IMO.

 

[MadaCanuckle]

No doubt, I agree with your points and have to admit I was pretty pissed at Green when he was playing Sutter, Gagner, and Jokinen, of all players, so much trying to eek out every point he could. That was terrible.

As far as amazing offers for players, aside from Horvat I doubt you would get any and that includes Tanev but that's where the team is right now. However, there's nothing wrong with being excited about those young players, cheering them on and being entertained as they progress, and the potential of some of the others in anticipation of another high pick next spring. That's a long way from cheering for embarrassing losses because you want a GM fired when that may or may not actually occur any time soon despite the previous mistakes. I can separate the two and can appreciate others can't but some are plain ridiculous.

Forgot about Horvat.

I am not cheering nor anyone is cheering for embarassing losses. I am cheering for losses because they get us a high pick and get Jim Benning and John Weisbrod closer to a embarassing firing.

I love when we lose 7-5 with our young guys piling up points. But no one who is a fan of the Canucks can expect that this team.is good. And our management are selling this idea. So, for the greater good, would you rather have 2 or 3 astounding losses that left no other choice than to fire this management team or be mediocre next 4 or 5 years?

 

[Curmudgeon]

Forgot about Horvat.

I am not cheering nor anyone is cheering for embarassing losses. I am cheering for losses because they get us a high pick and get Jim Benning and John Weisbrod closer to a embarassing firing.

I love when we lose 7-5 with our young guys piling up points. But no one who is a fan of the Canucks can expect that this team.is good. And our management are selling this idea. So, for the greater good, would you rather have 2 or 3 astounding losses that left no other choice than to fire this management team or be mediocre next 4 or 5 years?

Sure I can accept losses as part of the process in accumulating higher end picks and assets that ultimately make you a better team but I will not cheer or celebrate 7 goals by the opposition as a "touchdown" or fail to appreciate the additions and entertaining play of a Pettersson, Boeser or Hughes.

I could be wrong but I think the time to fire Benning was before the extension and Pettersson's arrival. These young players may just save his job and if that's the case, I'm not going to cheer against the team as they progress just because they haven't canned Benning like I thought they should have.

 

[SillyRabbit]

Sure I can accept losses as part of the process in accumulating higher end picks and assets that ultimately make you a better team but I will not cheer or celebrate 7 goals by the opposition as a "touchdown" or fail to appreciate the additions and entertaining play of a Pettersson, Boeser or Hughes.

I could be wrong but I think the time to fire Benning was before the extension and Pettersson's arrival. These young players may just save his job and if that's the case, I'm not going to cheer against the team as they progress just because they haven't canned Benning like I thought they should have.

This team will never be a contender with Benning as GM.

So if you want the young players to actually succeed and win a Cup, you have to cheer for Benning to be fired, otherwise you’re just saying “I’m happy to watch these guys play even though I know that a championship is off the table.”

 

[nuck luck]

Yup.

Hitting on your Top 10 picks doesn't necessarily mean you're gonna be a true contender, but missing on Top 10 picks will set back an organization for years.

Look at Buffalo or Arizona. That Strome pick set the Coyotes back years. They tanked to get McDavid or Eichel, and instead got a player they've gotten no NHL contribution from and are still searching for answers. They'd be one of the more exciting teams in the league had they picked Marner. Buffalo missing on Nylander (Sergachev) & to a degree Reinhart (Draisaitl) set them back bigly as well.

Exactly. However, the situation gets grossly dire when you add the inability to develop players after the first round or ability to add picks to increase the odds. Even if we ignore trading away a solid prospect from the first round and continuously trading our 2nd (late 1st) picks, the situation is still critical.

The funny thing, like in...'WTF are you thinking?' kind, is how some fans can't see this. They continue to use the same arguments about how their biggest fear is to turn out like the oilers. We are now following the oilers rebuild...

 

[nuck luck]

It's also the reason the Jets have emerged as a strong, deep, young team, just nailing all but 1 (stanley) 1st round pick since moving to Winnipeg: Schiefle Trouba Morrisey Connor Ehlers Laine Roslovic. Not to mention getting Copp Lowry Hellybuck in later rounds.

I'd say between the 2014/16 drafts, and the subsequent loss of 3 good assets from the 14' draft, we've set ourselves back 3 seasons.

We would need a very good 3 years to be where we should be, a little optimistic on your part maybe. Hope you're right though!

I am patiently waiting for +3 AB (after bennbrod)

 

[timw33]

We would need a very good 3 years to be where we should be, a little optimistic on your part maybe. Hope you're right though!

I am patiently waiting for +3 AB (after bennbrod)

3 seasons on the draft, probably 2-3 seasons on trades/pro scouting/FA.

 

[y2kcanucks]

How do you figure Beagle and Roussel are here to replace the Sedins? They were signed for bottom 6 roles and minutes, yes at too much money and term, and serve as expensive upgrades over guys like Gaunce and Granlund in the short term but Pettersson and Goldobin, at least so far, are taking the offensive top 6 openings left by the twins and that's how it should be.

No disputing where the team has been at and the state it's in right at this point in time but it's not without any positives despite the poor leadership from the top and some truly stupid moves along the way. So the primary goal of tanking is new management? I always thought the goal through tanking was to draft high and accumulate young assets to the longer term benefit of the team while showing gradual progression. Are you prepared to continue to cheer for embarrassing losses until Benning is fired or the team is sold and would that include hoping young players like Pettersson, Boeser, and Hughes don't develop and fail miserably? It's their progress that's going to largely determine Benning's job security and they may very well save his job. In 3 years from now, if they're fighting for a playoff spot because of these young players and with Benning still employed, do you still cheer against them?

If need be then yes. Though I honestly don't think that there's any way Benning survives the next 2 years. I think it's highly likely he'll get the ax at the end of this season if the Canucks regress from where they were last year. But I'm prepared to cheer for losses as long as it takes. I won't support a mediocre bubble playoff team built by this idiot.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Yeah? No kidding, I never picked up on that. Thanks for enlightening me.

I figured you never picked up on that based on what you had written, so I'm glad this was enlightening for you. Cheers.

 

[nuck luck]

3 seasons on the draft, probably 2-3 seasons on trades/pro scouting/FA.

I would hope, but too often I've seen GM'S come into an organization with their own egos at the forefront. They want to put their 'mark' on the team and just make changes to make a splash.

Agreed, it can be done in less, but doubtful...

 

[ProstheticConscience]

I was commenting about a specific poster and their schtick being about negativity since their posting history suggests they aren't even capable of acknowledging the few positives that have emerged, especially with respect to Pettersson. Other than that, feel free to check my posting history, I think I've been pretty forthcoming with my own negative takes but at least my comments aren't without balance. You make some valid points here that I've agreed with along the way and while the cupboard was virtually empty of quality prospects prior to 2014, it doesn't excuse Benning and the team from the stupid moves or change the opinion I shared previously that, yes, he should have been fired.

You're more than welcome to your opinion. It's just that constant attacks on y2k in the one thread set aside specifically for tanking gets very tiresome. We've seen more No True Scotsman speeches that we can count, and they didn't make any more impact last year than they will this year. If that poster's conduct here offends you, feel free to push a little button on your screen and never see his posts again.

Are you suggesting there's a plethora of picks making meaningful contributions around the league from throughout those drafts? If so, that's plain wrong.

I'm suggesting that seeing as how nothing worthwhile developed from the outer reaches of those draft years for us I doubt that much will emerge from 2017 or 18 either. I'm not doing Monday morning QB, I'm saying: what have we got from the draft? You know, this supposedly great drafting GM? What's he really done?

2014 we've got Virtanen and maybe a goalie. Maybe.

2015 we've got Boeser and...what? Three guys still in Utica. Gaudette's the only one I really hold out hope for as being NHL talent, and that's as a 3rd or 4th line guy. Brisebois and Jasek are on developmental curves so slight they're basically flatlines.

2016. Juolevi's in Utica and not exactly setting the world on fire. Passed like standing still by the rest of the dmen in his draft class. Lockwood's had...how many shoulder surgeries now? Everyone else gone. Nobody else re-upped.

Part of the reason why the prospect pool has talent in it is because those prospects are generally staying prospects and not graduating to the NHL level. What, you still excited to see Jasek, Brisebois or Chatfield? You'd be seeing them already if they were really worth getting excited over.

 

[Peter10]

How do you figure Beagle and Roussel are here to replace the Sedins?

To some extend they were brought in as replacement although not necessarly on the ice.

 

[carrotshirt]

“What available dman would you have signed over the summer?” is a Benning defense I’m seeing far too much of. He’s had five years to cobble that woeful defense together.

Targeting good young D instead of Sbisa and Guds (and Pouliot... and Larsen... and Bart... and so on) would have been a good start.

 

[MadaCanuckle]

Sure I can accept losses as part of the process in accumulating higher end picks and assets that ultimately make you a better team but I will not cheer or celebrate 7 goals by the opposition as a "touchdown" or fail to appreciate the additions and entertaining play of a Pettersson, Boeser or Hughes.

I could be wrong but I think the time to fire Benning was before the extension and Pettersson's arrival. These young players may just save his job and if that's the case, I'm not going to cheer against the team as they progress just because they haven't canned Benning like I thought they should have.

I think you were misjudging two complete different things: the fact that you are cheering for your young players and the fact that every loss gives you a better chance of getting a player that can impact the franchise positively in the next few years. People seem to forget that piling losses was the main point of getting Pettersson. If you have Pettersson right now, for example, it is because you sucked. A lot. And why do you want Benning to get canned? Because he bocthed 3 out of 4 high picks (you can't say for sure that Hughes will be a top 2 D, even if he projects as such)

No. Boeser was the main reason that Benning was "saved". But he promised the owners (at least, by his own admission) that this team would get better. If we fall out of the playoff picture, someone will get canned. I can point out to some remarks by Aquamen:

«At previous training camps, you could quickly spot 12 or 15 players who looked out of place, couldn't play at a high level. This year at Whistler there's not one. Jim and Travis are going to have some tough decisions. A good problem !»

I can point out to the letter to season ticket holders about the "new exciting era" and "the progress" that is expected of this group. We are expecting something out of this group. If they fail to have some progression, and we are the worst team in the league in the last 3 years, someone will get axed.

About the losses: do you want a good era for the Canucks or a good era for the Benning fan club? Answer this and probably your opinion will change.

 

[valkynax]

“What available dman would you have signed over the summer?” is a Benning defense I’m seeing far too much of. He’s had five years to cobble that woeful defense together.

Targeting good young D instead of Sbisa and Guds (and Pouliot... and Larsen... and Bart... and so on) would have been a good start.

This is cut from the page of "c'mon GMing is 2 hard" in Benningian Playbook 101.

 

[CanaFan]

This is cut from the page of "c'mon GMing is 2 hard" in Benningian Playbook 101.

It’s right next to “Well if you are so smart why aren’t you the GM of an NHL club?”

 

[M2Beezy]

3 years seems like an incredible stretch, in my opinion.

As I mentioned before, outside of EP40, BB6, and BH53, the forward group we have is below average at best. Those three are the sole reasons this current team is marginally more watchable than 10 hour footage of paint drying.

Defense is a complete and utter nightmare. Edler and Tanev can barely hold the line, while the rest run around like chickens with their heads cut off. And I'm not even gonna mention our goalie situation.

Competing for playoff spot is ****ing useless unless team has a legit shot at the cup, or if the team has enough platinum level talents who could benefit from the experience - which will be nigh useless if said team gets bounced in round 1 year after year.

The only way this team could even dream about having the remotest possibility of being a legit playoff team is if literally EVERYTHING works out the best possible way - Tryamkin returns, OJ turn it around, Q. Hughes becomes a top pair D, Edler/Tanev do not decline TOO much, we win the draft with more platinum talents, Demko becomes top tier goalie.

This "best case scenario will happen 100% of the time so I better double or triple down on it" type of thinking is exactly what got this team into its current embarrassing shape.

Good post, I agree, and if all those things do turn out, then we will have a TRUE contender as early as next season. Well maybe not true, but a playoff team, and to contend by the 2020-21 season

 

[M2Beezy]

It’s right next to “Well if you are so smart why aren’t you the GM of an NHL club?”

Haha theres no actual book I think he was being sarcastic

 

[CanaFan]

Haha theres no actual book I think he was being sarcastic

No, I saw it on Ebay. Hold on I'll look it up. Ah, there it is.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

No, I saw it on Ebay. Hold on I'll look it up. Ah, there it is.

Written by Pierre Dorian with forwards by Jim Benning and Peter Chiarelli.

 

[Jack Burton]

Q up the Benny Hill theme song for tonight.

There's no way we can skate with this team and it's going to be wave after wave of TB forwards all over our D.

I suspect that it will be pretty even for the 1st period but once TB shakes the rust off it should become a very enjoyable game.

5-0 TB sounds about right.

 

[Peter10]

Haha theres no actual book I think he was being sarcastic

For the sake of your well being, I hope this is a shtick.

 

[M2Beezy]

For the sake of your well being, I hope this is a shtick.

I was kidding