Predators Hockey Discussion 22-23

[Viqsi]

OK, I have to modify the clown bet. 'if the Preds get #1, I will get clowned up. If CBJ Viqsi'

...that's hardly a major sacrifice on your part.

 

[101st_fan]

Duchene and Granlund are vastly underperforming for their salaries. Jeannot has regressed to a banger without scoring ability … 19 games without a goal, two assists in that stretch. Duchene’s falloff alone at 5on5 accounts for about half of the differential in goal pace between last season and this. We’re back to COVID Dutchy.

 

[hockey diva]

We have a bunch of parts that don’t fit together no matter how many times they go through the line blender.

We are paying Duchene 8 mil a year to turn the puck over almost every time he is on the ice. Granlund looks awful in all 3 zones, Forsberg uninvolved Etc. And they seem to have a mite’s hockey IQ between them. The inability or unwillingness to make the simple play, complete a stick to stick pass or shoot the puck when there is open lane, is embarrassing at this level. Nino must be glad he only signed for two years.

It seems to me that the culture of the whole organization needs a revamp. People have gotten too comfortable and there doesn’t seem to be any accountability.

 

[Kat Predator]

Breaking up the herd line because Sissons was "holding it back" didn't really pan out. (I'm not surprised.)

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Breaking up the herd line because Sissons was "holding it back" didn't really pan out. (I'm not surprised.)

The Herd Line was played out coming close to a calendar year ago now and we've needed to do something different with the component parts. I was skeptical Jeannot was going to be able to maintain the same level of production but he's fallen off even more than expected and Trenin also hasn't shown any progress. Teams have caught on and know what to expect from them now. We basically have 2 lines that can't be relied on to produce anything.

 

[Kat Predator]

The Herd Line was played out coming close to a calendar year ago now and we've needed to do something different with the component parts. I was skeptical Jeannot was going to be able to maintain the same level of production but he's fallen off even more than expected and Trenin also hasn't shown any progress. Teams have caught on and know what to expect from them now. We basically have 2 lines that can't be relied on to produce anything.

I know that line wasn't doing the same things it did. (The trouble with only having one gear to grind is only having one gear to grind.)

On the other hand, calls to break up that line started way back. Even when it was working. There were calls to move Jeannot and Trenin up to the top 6, etc. (Watching more than the boxscore, it seemed clear that the line was more than the sum of its parts, and Sissons played an unappreciated role in making the line what it was.)

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

I know that line wasn't doing the same things it did. (The trouble with only having one gear to grind is only having one gear to grind.)

On the other hand, calls to break up that line started way back. Even when it was working. There were calls to move Jeannot and Trenin up to the top 6, etc. (Watching more than the boxscore, it seemed clear that the line was more than the sum of its parts, and Sissons played an unappreciated role in making the line what it was.)

Yeah, I was one of them, at least from the beginning of this season, if not earlier. Try Jeannot consistently in the top 6, let Sissons center the "grinding" 4th line and put Trenin there or try him as the bruiser on a 3rd scoring line. If it doesn't work out and their production slips then re-unite them but use them as the 4th line (and again, try to go with 3 scoring lines). But once we kept Big Mac AND Smith AND then Jank, well, there aren't many options.

 

[Armourboy]

Yeah, I was one of them, at least from the beginning of this season, if not earlier. Try Jeannot consistently in the top 6, let Sissons center the "grinding" 4th line and put Trenin there or try him as the bruiser on a 3rd scoring line. If it doesn't work out and their production slips then re-unite them but use them as the 4th line (and again, try to go with 3 scoring lines). But once we kept Big Mac AND Smith AND then Jank, well, there aren't many options.

But we have depth

 

[Kat Predator]

But we have depth

And just because the other teams figured out what we do, it doesn't mean we shouldn't just keep doing more of it.

 

[Scoresberg]

Duchene and Granlund are vastly underperforming for their salaries. Jeannot has regressed to a banger without scoring ability … 19 games without a goal, two assists in that stretch. Duchene’s falloff alone at 5on5 accounts for about half of the differential in goal pace between last season and this. We’re back to COVID Dutchy.

But this is exactly what we were trying to prepare for. Almost everyone knew that Duchene's last season (or Forsberg's for that matter) couldn't be replicated.

That is why we went out and got Nino to be a secondary scorer that Kunin wasn't. That is why we hoped we could have some scoring punch in the middle-six in the form of younger players (Tolvanen, Tomasino, Glass). That is why we hoped the Herd could keep up their scoring pace from last year.

Clearly, none of those things have panned out (well, except for Nino maybe). That's why people are reverting to the coaching staff because it seems odd that none of those plans to cover for Duchene's scoring worked. When a change is needed, it's easier to change the coach than the whole team.

On to another matter:

Forsberg - Pärssinen - Duchene (just load up the top line)

Niederraiter - Johansen - Granlund (second line that could work)

Trenin - Sissons - Jeannot (go back to Herd, although could have Glass here as a C)

Jankowski - Glass - Smith (spareparts)

 

[Armourboy]

But this is exactly what we were trying to prepare for. Almost everyone knew that Duchene's last season (or Forsberg's for that matter) couldn't be replicated.

That is why we went out and got Nino to be a secondary scorer that Kunin wasn't. That is why we hoped we could have some scoring punch in the middle-six in the form of younger players (Tolvanen, Tomasino, Glass). That is why we hoped the Herd could keep up their scoring pace from last year.

Clearly, none of those things have panned out (well, except for Nino maybe). That's why people are reverting to the coaching staff because it seems odd that none of those plans to cover for Duchene's scoring worked. When a change is needed, it's easier to change the coach than the whole team.

On to another matter:

Forsberg - Pärssinen - Duchene (just load up the top line)

Niederraiter - Johansen - Granlund (second line that could work)

Trenin - Sissons - Jeannot (go back to Herd, although could have Glass here as a C)

Jankowski - Glass - Smith (spareparts)

I don't mind that but I don't know that wouldn't think about swapping Granlund and Jeannot and then Glass and Sissons.

2nd line should be tough to play against and gives your 3rd a bit more skill.

Next move after that would be to move Joey up.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

...that's hardly a major sacrifice on your part.

His clown bet should be to NOT put the stuff on for a month or something?

 

[hockey diva]

The hockey IQ of this team is less Than 10 at this point, why do players get so stupid when they come here? Or are they clueless from the get go and hid it really well.

 

[herzausstein]

Turns out our depleted d group cant contain draisaitl.

 

[LCPreds]

Turns out our depleted d group cant contain draisaitl.

For sure. I've also seen our non-depleted d group unable to contain this guy.

 

[triggrman]

I'd trade McDonagh because you can't afford to pay a player of his skill level that kind of money, no other reason.

I'd also like to say Tanner Jeannot can skate fast. His agility is average but his speed isn't. For his size and physicality, he's an above average overall skater. He's not going to toe drag around anyone, his hands aren't soft like that but can drive, it amazes me we can't use this skill to open up more space on the ice.

I don't know why Sissons is getting top 6 minutes on the wing, which he has lately.

Is Jankowski still playing?

Glass looked decent. I'm not a big Glass fan but he's looked better lately.

Forsberg is frustrated, so is Duchene and the fixes I think are opposite. Duchene needs to shoot more, make it a focus. Forsberg needs to rely on his linemates more and focus on finding and/or creating open ice more.

Another game where Fabbro was actually aggressive offensively and looked good doing it. He needs to do this more, and quit playing scared all the time.

anyway, that's enough for now.

 

[ILikeItILoveIt]

We're 12-12-3. Next 11 games: @Jets, @Avs, Oilers, @Hawks, Avs, Stars, @Ducks, @Knights, Habs, @Canes, and @caps. That takes us to January 6th, which happens to be the 3-year anniversary of the last and only mid-season firing in Preds history. Preds were 19-15-7. Conceding wins against the Hawks, Ducks, and Habs, the Preds should go 3-8 over these next 11, leaving them at 15-20-3.

Does Poile have it in him? Or does Ownership have it in them to fire Poile?

Waiting quietly in the wings, by his fireplace in his new Nashville home, is Barry Trotz.

Poile could fire Hynes and re-hire Trotz.

Ownership could fire Poile and Hynes, and hire Trotz in a dual role, then let him hire a coach.

Or Poile goes for a Top 5 pick and stick with Hynes for the season, then fire him (circa 2014 with Trotz 1.0)

 

[Viqsi]

I'd trade McDonagh because you can't afford to pay a player of his skill level that kind of money, no other reason.

The reason why you want to trade him is also the reason why we won't be able to.

 

[ShagDaddy]

Unfortunately Poile has loaded this organization with a lot of unmovable contracts. I think the reality of the situation is that this team is what it is until some of those $8mil contracts expire. Fortunately those start coming off the book around the time the organization has a new governor.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

I'd trade McDonagh because you can't afford to pay a player of his skill level that kind of money, no other reason.

I'd also like to say Tanner Jeannot can skate fast. His agility is average but his speed isn't. For his size and physicality, he's an above average overall skater. He's not going to toe drag around anyone, his hands aren't soft like that but can drive, it amazes me we can't use this skill to open up more space on the ice.

I don't know why Sissons is getting top 6 minutes on the wing, which he has lately.

Is Jankowski still playing?

Glass looked decent. I'm not a big Glass fan but he's looked better lately.

Forsberg is frustrated, so is Duchene and the fixes I think are opposite. Duchene needs to shoot more, make it a focus. Forsberg needs to rely on his linemates more and focus on finding and/or creating open ice more.

Another game where Fabbro was actually aggressive offensively and looked good doing it. He needs to do this more, and quit playing scared all the time.

anyway, that's enough for now.

Funny enough I thought it was one of the more impressive games coming from Fabbro. He got left with too big a gap to close on the McDavid PP goal and was unlucky in being unable to prevent the goal where he dove and fell onto the puck. As you mention, the aggressiveness and decisiveness on the offensive end was refreshing--a much different player when he does that.

I mentioned in the GDT, but I really like Gross' offensive awareness as well. Finding some of the looks he is able to get (as a defenseman even) is, funny enough, the exact thing that seemed to be lacking in Tolvanen's game.

 

[herzausstein]

Heres hoping for a compliance buyout. Theres gonna be alot of teams in real cap hell with only a 1 mil raise

 

[BigFatCat999]

His clown bet should be to NOT put the stuff on for a month or something?

Hush beer boy.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

The reason why you want to trade him is also the reason why we won't be able to.

Taking on his contract was a high-risk move that was predicated on the team being able to take another step towards contention. And if the team can't do that... yikes, that's a big mistake relative to what we could have done instead. (Which would have been buying out Myers and getting an actual Cap credit this year, and having around $7M of Cap space that would easily solve all of our Cap concerns for next season, even with a cheaper filler D signed.)

At this point, it's almost not even down to how well or how poorly McDonagh plays. He can be almost anything on the spectrum of suck-mediocre-solid and none of it matters.... if the team isn't competitive, the trade goes down as an awful one.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Heres hoping for a compliance buyout. Theres gonna be alot of teams in real cap hell with only a 1 mil raise

I mean, there are regular buyouts in the CBA, teams may have to think harder about using more of those. But I don't really see why the PA would agree to allow compliance buyouts. It's a very short term pain for them to have 1 chilly UFA off-season, vs. giving the owners a gift-wrapped get out of jail free card.


A McDonagh buy-out wouldn't be TOO painful... well, it would carry us nicely through next year's looming Crunch anyway. Then we'd have one big year of pain in 2025-26, but the Cap should have gone up quite a lot by then. And then 3 more Turris-like lingering headache seasons. You never want to be paying guys for years just to make them go away, but... for a lot teams, these kinds of things may be the lesser evil/pain.

Granlund or Joey buyouts are also not the worst, if we truly needed to escape a short-term crisis and were confident the Cap riser in the future would vastly exceed the extra lingering headache years tacked on the end.

So anyway, teams are going to have this kind of escape hatch if they really need it, they shouldn't be crying TOO loudly if they aren't willing to use the means that are already at their disposal.

 

[herzausstein]

I mean, there are regular buyouts in the CBA, teams may have to think harder about using more of those. But I don't really see why the PA would agree to allow compliance buyouts. It's a very short term pain for them to have 1 chilly UFA off-season, vs. giving the owners a gift-wrapped get out of jail free card.


A McDonagh buy-out wouldn't be TOO painful... well, it would carry us nicely through next year's looming Crunch anyway. Then we'd have one big year of pain in 2025-26, but the Cap should have gone up quite a lot by then. And then 3 more Turris-like lingering headache seasons. You never want to be paying guys for years just to make them go away, but... for a lot teams, these kinds of things may be the lesser evil/pain.

View attachment 621788

Granlund or Joey buyouts are also not the worst, if we truly needed to escape a short-term crisis and were confident the Cap riser in the future would vastly exceed the extra lingering headache years tacked on the end.

View attachment 621789
View attachment 621790

So anyway, teams are going to have this kind of escape hatch if they really need it, they shouldn't be crying TOO loudly if they aren't willing to use the means that are already at their disposal.

Well the owners were originally under the impression of a couple million cap boost vs 1. Im sure some deals were done with the understanding that the cap would actaully rise significantly next season.

As far as the PA is concerned, due to the stagnant cap even with a compliance buyout i imagine wed end right back where we are with almost all the teams against the cap. so its not like theyre going to be losing funds... theyll just be allocated differently. Regular buyout would restrict future signings due to the cap penalty which would lower the potential earnings of replacement players.