Predators Hockey Discussion 22-23

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Porter Stoutheart

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Jun 14, 2017
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I have to check my own emotions on this move. I think realistically it doesn't really move the needle for us either way in a vacuum. I think the hype and hope I had for his development was higher than most just based on how he showed so early, so that brings my frustrations to the fore front. I'll say I have learned my lesson on buying into the hype. There are :insert team color: tinted glasses and then there's a huge leap up to get to the level of bias you see in the European market for "their" player". Tolvy was a prime example of this, but I suspect it happens on all the different national perspectives. Maybe Americans are the exception as they don't seem to care enough to hype their hockey guys I guess or maybe I have missed those threads.
Maybe I just never really bought into "the hype" like other people did, I don't even really remember, but for some reason every time people talk about "the hype" as a factor with Tolvanen, it just rubs me the wrong way. Because I never really experienced that the same way others seem to have? Or anyway, "the hype" seems like a total red herring issue to me, 4 years later. We've had ample time to see Tolvanen progress and evolve as a hockey player, and stopped caring about his performance as a teenager several years ago. Or we should have anyway.

He's an ok player, it's not going to sink the franchise to lose him anymore than it did to lose Jarnkrok or dozens of other middle lineup players along the way. Not in isolation. It's more how it is just another example of an ongoing issue that touches on other players and the direction our team seems to be taking with its young players lately. He is just one more example in what is becoming a pattern that I don't like.
 

beardawg

Registered User
Feb 12, 2015
759
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Washington, DC
Last straw for Poile and co. Him and anyone he's hired should be sh*t canned. Horrendous asset management by him and incredibly blind team evaluation by the coaching staff
 
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Roman Yoshi

#164303
Aug 16, 2009
10,859
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Franklin, TN
Is Boro not on LTIR? Same with McD?

I get that sending Parsnip down doesn't seem favorable but if it saved an asset in tolvanen why not if you aren't willing to trade Eeli for a d man?

The Kyle Turris buyout effectively just cost us tolvanen.
 

Flgatorguy87

Registered User
Jul 7, 2011
5,946
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East Nasty
I mean I've never been that hyped for him, hopeful but not a guy that thought he should have just walked in and been given top billing cause he was just that awesome. My major problem with the whole thing is that he did what was asked of him and then wasn't really put into a great position. I know he was on the " 2nd line " last season, but his strength was on that right side on the PP using that shot, and they never put him there. So while he wasn't great offensively for us they also cut the knees right out from under him.

I get that guys need to earn their time, but you can't hamstring them while they are trying to earn it as well.
Don't get me wrong. I was not on board with waiving him. I am just thinking realistically he is probably not going to turn into something that moves the needle much for us, or we can't replace internally. I'm trying to keep my middle of the road approach going...although it can be difficult at times around here.

Your conversation about misuse of assets and his development path is a different one. I wish I had the knowledge to go there, but it would just be pure anecdotal observation on my side.
 

Armourboy

Hey! You suck!
Jan 20, 2014
20,017
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Shelbyville, TN
Hopefully Tomasino doesn't do too well, Hynes will just bench him and then Poile will move him out.
Is Boro not on LTIR? Same with McD?

I get that sending Parsnip down doesn't seem favorable but if it saved an asset in tolvanen why not if you aren't willing to trade him for a d man?

The Kyle Turris buyout effectively just cost us tolvanen.
Well and signing useless plugs instead of just playing the kids.
 

Armourboy

Hey! You suck!
Jan 20, 2014
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Shelbyville, TN
Don't get me wrong. I was not on board with waiving him. I am just thinking realistically he is probably not going to turn into something that moves the needle much for us, or we can't replace internally. I'm trying to keep my middle of the road approach going...although it can be difficult at times around here.

Your conversation about misuse of assets and his development path is a different one. I wish I had the knowledge to go there, but it would just be pure anecdotal observation on my side.
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not someone that watched everything he did, but based on what we were seeing from the KHL it wasn't hard to figure out where his strength was and where he was putting up goals and points.

It would be like drafting Weber and then putting him down by the net on PP2 and then complaining he never scores with that bit shot.
 
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Porter Stoutheart

Seen Stamkos?
Jun 14, 2017
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Hopefully nobody is taking this into very serious consideration. The Preds were NOT forced to waive Tolvanen just because of Cap issues. If they had really wanted to keep him, they could have found many different ways to do so. Maybe Poile wants to frame it that way or somebody does to make it sound like they had no choice, but that is just misdirection. They could put Boro on LTIR or temporarily assign Parssinen to the minors while determining if another player was eligible for LTIR, etc. So to me it says nothing... they could easily have kept Tolvanen just by doing any of several different moves that all NHL teams make every day. They CHOSE not to. They weren't forced.
 

herzausstein

Registered User
Aug 31, 2014
7,613
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West Virginia

Didnt see what happened to carrier. Surprised hes week to week and lauzon is day to day. I figured lauzon would've been the one out longer.

So
McDonagh 2-4 weeks
Carrier week to week so probably atleast 2-4 weeks
Lauzon day to day so probably atleast a week.

Hold onto your butts. We are a weak goals for team and this isnt going to help our goals against.

Interested in how our pairings shake out.
 

ILikeItILoveIt

Registered User
Apr 2, 2010
846
672
Here’s the thing. Waiving Tolvy just highlights the core problem with our team. We no longer have anyone on-the-rise. We have bigger, slower, grinders who will never be more than average-to-below-average, vets who are overpaid and under-performing, and NOBODY getting better with a hope of being a star. Think early-to-mid 2010’s: Suter, Weber, Josi, Eck, Forsberg, Arvy, Fiala, etc. They were good, with signs of great. All of them became good, and some, great.

This roster has zero players in that category. There’s little Hope. At least Tolvy was False Hope. You felt like if they just kept playing him, at worst you had a solid bottom-sixer with a shot, and at best he figures it out and becomes good. You can play all our bottom sixers all you want, but nobody has promise.



Guys like Trenin and Jeanot looked to be in that category, but they lack speed and skill. They’re bigger and tougher, but don’t have scoring touches and don’t have passing skills. Our best guys have peaked and may be regressing. Every major player we were counting on from last year is underperforming, some significantly, including Saros. He’s way off his Vezina stats and doesn’t appear to be getting any better. He’s good, and the least of our problems, but he’s not great.

The Admirals are killin’ it, but not the way we need it. Afanasyev has 11 points in 23 games, Tomasino has 11 points in 15 games. John Leonard has 1 goal in 23 games. Luke E. has 17 points, but only 4 goals. Their leader is Tommy f’n Novak with 10 goals and 22 points. I like Novak but he’s a bottom-sixer. One emerging bright spot is Askarov. After a slow start, he’s played 16 games and gone 11 – 4 with a 2.42 GA and a .918 Save %. If Saros is as good as he’s gonna get, Yaroslav is one of the few players I’d come to watch in a Pred uniform if we sucked otherwise.

If our Top Six guys don’t wake up, we’ll all be rooting for draft positioning. With the injuries at D, are we bringing up anyone interesting, like Nurmi (17 points and 6’6” tall)? Nah. We’re going with McKeown (2 goals and 8 points) and Kevin Gravel (0 goals, 6 points) to wow us. Guess they “earned it”.



Oh and just to add to the storm clouds, attendance is sucking. Saturday afternoon’s game was subsidized with freebie fans. The ticket market is soft. The resiliency of our fanbase may be tested as much as our players.

And the next Great-Gold-Hope, Parissinen, has come back down to earth and a few nice games. I like him, he gives me hope, but right now, it seems everyone sucks.

As for Hynes, Poile replaced the play-fast Lavy roster with the bigger-slower-“identity” roster for Hynes. If we fire Hynes and hire a play-fast coach, we don’t have the roster.



Ugh
 

BigFatCat999

First Fubu and now Pred303. !@#$! you cancer
Apr 23, 2007
19,120
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Campbell, NY
Wow, he made it to Seattle, 10th in the league. 22nd in waiver wire order.

So, Ducks, Hawks, CBJ, Yotes, Sharks, Sens, Flyers, Blues, Sabres, Nucks, Habs, Panthers, Flames, Wild, Avs, Caps, Oil, Wings, Rags, Isles, Kings all said no.

Maybe, he's not as cracked up as we thought.
 

weeze

Registered User
May 2, 2011
1,102
431
Illinois
Have been alright w GMDP, but here lately I don't understand what the organization is doing or what their plan is long term. Not say ET was a long term prospect but he was a prospect that was thought to be a long term asset at one time. He showed promise as a sniper. It was said he needed to work on his 200ft game and it looks like he did that, at the detriment of his offense. He still showed some promise as a young player that played hard, tough 200ft hockey that would score some.

So why now all of a sudden do we put him on waiver's? The Team seems to be collapsing all at one time with injuries. Sure we have won some games but the way we are winning is not a winning plan. The team seems to play like Jekyl/Hyde hockey. You never know what you are going to get. This all comes from the Coaches and down. Not sure why GMDP extended but that is for him to explain.
 

Porter Stoutheart

Seen Stamkos?
Jun 14, 2017
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12,166
Gravel and McKeown were basically signed for this purpose. They are Tinordi/Harpur, Irwin/Bitetto types who have a teensy bit of past NHL experience, and along with Gross really anchored that Colorado defense last year. (Uh, not THAT Colorado defense). They got the big bucks to be those guys for us. All of them at once was probably not expected, but there's nothing whatsoever wrong about calling them up in this situation. There's a readiness gap on our D that isn't that same as with our forward group. So defaulting to the veteran minor leaguers in this situation on D actually DOES make sense.

Playing any of them more minutes than Fabbro or on the top pairing with Josi, now that's where things may go off the rails however... :sarcasm:
 

herzausstein

Registered User
Aug 31, 2014
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West Virginia
Gravel and McKeown were basically signed for this purpose. They are Tinordi/Harpur, Irwin/Bitetto types who have a teensy bit of past NHL experience, and along with Gross really anchored that Colorado defense last year. (Uh, not THAT Colorado defense). They got the big bucks to be those guys for us. All of them at once was probably not expected, but there's nothing whatsoever wrong about calling them up in this situation. There's a readiness gap on our D that isn't that same as with our forward group. So defaulting to the veteran minor leaguers in this situation on D actually DOES make sense.

Playing any of them more minutes than Fabbro or on the top pairing with Josi, now that's where things may go off the rails however... :sarcasm:
Gross will probably still be paired with josi. Question becomes to split or not to split ekholm and fabbro. The d callups make sense... i dont think any of the yiunger dmen are nhl ready. As you said, theres a readiness gap in our d prospects that isnt there in the forward prospects
 
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Flgatorguy87

Registered User
Jul 7, 2011
5,946
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East Nasty
Continue to look at this team and just not see a lot of ways to change our outcome. We are pretty locked in to this group of players it seems. It feels like we will be floating on the "just exist" plane for a few years, getting middling 1st round picks and pulling up mid level prospects as we have very slow turnover.
 
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Porter Stoutheart

Seen Stamkos?
Jun 14, 2017
15,830
12,166
Gross will probably still be paired with josi. Question becomes to split or not to split ekholm and fabbro. The d callups make sense... i dont think any of the yiunger dmen are nhl ready. As you said, theres a readiness gap in our d prospects that isnt there in the forward prospects

I'm already numb to the issue of splitting up Josi and Fabbro. That they worked so well together last season, and I've always had this feeling like there was just some little communication issue with Ekholm and Fabbro to boot... well to me it therefore makes 100% perfect sense that this is what Hynes would default to.

If Gravel - McKeown come as a pair, however, I hope they are ready for it. And I hope our goalie is ready for tonight. Good thing they don't jump straight into the Edmonton games but at least get this warmup against the sucky Blues first.
:oops:
 

Predsanddead24

Registered User
Mar 7, 2019
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Continue to look at this team and just not see a lot of ways to change our outcome. We are pretty locked in to this group of players it seems. It feels like we will be floating on the "just exist" plane for a few years, getting middling 1st round picks and pulling up mid level prospects as we have very slow turnover.

Yeah we had our chance to enter the full rebuild at the trade deadline last year and decided to go for one more push with this core. I can't see us being any better than we are now for the next 3-4 years, but we'll likely still be talented enough to not be bottom dwellers. We don't even really have many guys that have trade value even if we wanted to trade them. That being said things can change quickly in the NHL especially if you have a goalie who can get as hot as Saros can so you never know.
 

herzausstein

Registered User
Aug 31, 2014
7,613
5,401
West Virginia
I'm already numb to the issue of splitting up Josi and Fabbro. That they worked so well together last season, and I've always had this feeling like there was just some little communication issue with Ekholm and Fabbro to boot... well to me it therefore makes 100% perfect sense that this is what Hynes would default to.

If Gravel - McKeown come as a pair, however, I hope they are ready for it. And I hope our goalie is ready for tonight. Good thing they don't jump straight into the Edmonton games but at least get this warmup against the sucky Blues first.
:oops:
Yeh im not looking forward to the edmonton games. It seriously looks like a globetrotter game when Draisaitl and mcdavid are on the ice against us
 
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