Predators Hockey Discussion 22-23

[Bringer of Jollity]

Duchene’s falloff is a key issue. He’s on pace for about 1/4 of his 5on5 goal scoring of last year … 15ish fewer goals in that situation. His 3 empty net goals look good on his stat sheet but that isn’t a ln aspect of the game that puts the team back into a game or gives them a lead. … it’s padding against a team playing in desperation mode at that point.

Nino is on pace for 30ish as of now. Cousins, Kunin, and Tomasino scored 33 combined.

I knew I forgot one, though I can't fathom how it was Kunin I misremembered considering how much he was argued over last season.

 

[herzausstein]

The amazing thing is that goals for is but one factor. The most goals for and goals per game didn’t result in a Cup last season.

Colorado was 4th in goals for last season at 3.76 and 9th in goals against at 2.83. I didnt go through and check every differential but thats quite respectable. Its not really the individual stat but having a favorable differential between the two is typically a good indicator of success. Such as this season, where boston and new jersey both have a high differential between goals for and goals against.

This season our goals against average is higher than our goals for. That likely will have to change if we hope to be successful this season.

 

[Armourboy]

1st rounder at the end of the draft, he was given a chance in the top 6, most people outside of the fanbase has him clearing. There were 900 forwards in the NHL who scored more per game, 300 more who scored higher. It was on him, not Poile, not Hynes. Him.

You are reading somewhere much different than I am. Pretty much everyone on the boards expects someone like Anaheim, Chicago, or Arizona to grab him.

 

[BigFatCat999]

You are reading somewhere much different than I am. Pretty much everyone on the boards expects someone like Anaheim, Chicago, or Arizona to grab him.

Let's see, Monday at 5PM I believe.

 

[sparkle twin]

I fully expect Tolvanen to get claimed.


___



Also, I hope McCarron gets the help he needs and is able to have a happy life, whether that includes playing hockey with the Preds or not. Just get well Big Sexy!

 

[Kat Predator]

You are reading somewhere much different than I am. Pretty much everyone on the boards expects someone like Anaheim, Chicago, or Arizona to grab him.

Permascratching him, not successfully trading him, and then waiving him suggests that the real goal is to have him claimed, likely for cap space. Clearing the $1.45M would give us just under $3M to take on someone else's dump. Or we could trade a package, like Trenin and Tomasino, for a middle tier $4.5-5M contract. (Sissons or Fabbro could also figure into a trade to get us to $5M, for example.)

 

[Myopinionsarewrong]

I'll be honest if I were the owner when I saw that waiver wire Hynes would have been fired and I would tell Poile to finish out the season and then retire.

I don't really understand all the Poile hate on these forums, unless it's directly related to hiring/not-firing Hynes. Has he made some "not so brilliant"-decisions in the last few years, sure, but not every trade/draft can pan out the way he/we would've wanted.

During the offseason he did what every fan wanted - got a top 6 winger (for a reasonable prize!), improved our goaltending, and improved our defense (McD not performing is not on his aging or Poile imo, more on Hynes). Also we have a ton of offensive talent in AHL/juniors right now, which is certainly something the management has to get credit from.

Sure Tolvanen on waivers sounds wierd/bad, but one would think Poile would've tried to trade him before that. I agree that Hynes should go, but if I would be the GM, that wouldn't be a clear decision for me with all things taken into account so I understand the hesitancy. After all there have been times under Hynes when we seem to be really good, although altogether someone else would probably be a much better coach.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

So the team played most of the second without Carrier and all of the third without both Carrier and Lauzon. Pushing both Gross and Fabbro over 20 minutes, Ekholm to almost 25 and Josi to over 31 minutes. Couple that with 6 minutes of penalties by Forsberg and Duchene in the third and I think one can see why the game was lost in that period.

 

[ShagDaddy]

I don't really understand all the Poile hate on these forums, unless it's directly related to hiring/not-firing Hynes. Has he made some "not so brilliant"-decisions in the last few years, sure, but not every trade/draft can pan out the way he/we would've wanted.

During the offseason he did what every fan wanted - got a top 6 winger (for a reasonable prize!), improved our goaltending, and improved our defense (McD not performing is not on his aging or Poile imo, more on Hynes). Also we have a ton of offensive talent in AHL/juniors right now, which is certainly something the management has to get credit from.

Sure Tolvanen on waivers sounds wierd/bad, but one would think Poile would've tried to trade him before that. I agree that Hynes should go, but if I would be the GM, that wouldn't be a clear decision for me with all things taken into account so I understand the hesitancy. After all there have been times under Hynes when we seem to be really good, although altogether someone else would probably be a much better coach.

I think what you’re seeing is fatigue when it comes to Poile. He’s been with the organization since inception and he has an auto-renewal on his contract every season so he won’t be going anywhere until he is ready to leave.

 

[Predsanddead24]

I'm way late to the Tolvanen news but I'm really surprised we couldn't at least get a depth defenseman for him given the injuries we have right now.

 

[Olderfan]

Hynes really isn’t a “youngster’s teaching coach”, that may have been his reputation prior to getting a HC job in the NHL but since joining the NHL, he hasn’t shown to be able to develop young players. While in NJ, he pretty much did the exact same thing that he has done here. Favoring veterans and journeymen and keeping a very short leash on the young developing players.

When I said that I meant young, young kids. Teenagers. Not professionals. AHL and NHL players seem to be beyond his abilities. I should have been clearer.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

Friedman on this tolvanen waive: apparently the Preds blue line is completely depleted. Rumor is 3 dmen are done for an extended period of time. So they needed to call at least one up: the problem is Poile and Hynes thought Smith, Jankowski and others have "earned" their spot more than tolvanen so that is why he was waived. Simple numbers game. Thinks there is almost 0% chance he isn't claimed.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

You are reading somewhere much different than I am. Pretty much everyone on the boards expects someone like Anaheim, Chicago, or Arizona to grab him.

I wouldn't be too sure. It's sort of 50/50 to me. I think those teams SHOULD be all over him. But if he has some underlying off-ice issues that we don't know about, or if teams are really just that shy about picking up a guy with an extra year left on his deal, well, either of those things could see him go unclaimed. It won't shock me anyway if we hear 3hrs from now that he's getting assigned to Milwaukee.

And I wonder what he would do if that happened.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Friedman on this tolvanen waive: apparently the Preds blue line is completely depleted. Rumor is 3 dmen are done for an extended period of time. So they needed to call at least one up: the problem is Poile and Hynes thought Smith, Jankowski and others have "earned" their spot more than tolvanen so that is why he was waived. Simple numbers game. Thinks there is almost 0% chance he isn't claimed.

That doesn't make any sense either. If you put guys on IR, even 3 defensemen, then you can call up 3 defensemen to replace them.

And at the same time as this, McCarron left also, leaving us another forward short. We are allowed to replace all of those with callups, we didn't have to send anybody down.

 

[jumb0]

wow

 

[herzausstein]

Friedman on this tolvanen waive: apparently the Preds blue line is completely depleted. Rumor is 3 dmen are done for an extended period of time. So they needed to call at least one up: the problem is Poile and Hynes thought Smith, Jankowski and others have "earned" their spot more than tolvanen so that is why he was waived. Simple numbers game. Thinks there is almost 0% chance he isn't claimed.

McCarron doesnt take up a roster spot while in player assistance. So we only have 21 players (boro and McDonagh are already on ir). If carrier and lauzon are done for some time, they should go to ir too which opens up space for replacements. Either way we had room for 2 d callups without needing waivers and even more if carrier or lauzon are going to IR.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I don't really understand all the Poile hate on these forums, unless it's directly related to hiring/not-firing Hynes. Has he made some "not so brilliant"-decisions in the last few years, sure, but not every trade/draft can pan out the way he/we would've wanted.

During the offseason he did what every fan wanted - got a top 6 winger (for a reasonable prize!), improved our goaltending, and improved our defense (McD not performing is not on his aging or Poile imo, more on Hynes). Also we have a ton of offensive talent in AHL/juniors right now, which is certainly something the management has to get credit from.

Sure Tolvanen on waivers sounds wierd/bad, but one would think Poile would've tried to trade him before that. I agree that Hynes should go, but if I would be the GM, that wouldn't be a clear decision for me with all things taken into account so I understand the hesitancy. After all there have been times under Hynes when we seem to be really good, although altogether someone else would probably be a much better coach.

For me it is all about the coaching decision. I didn't like that he kept Hynes after the way the team disintegrated down the stretch last season. But I also cannot fathom why he lets the coach make some of these personnel decisions. Tolvanen is just one more straw on the back. But as GM Poile gave up good assets to acquire a young former 1st round pick in Kunin, and he turned from a player who looked useful when first acquired into something approximating total garbage. Tolvanen was a 1st round pick. Fabbro was in the process of being sidelined out of town similarly, another 1st rounder (maybe the injuries on D have granted him a stay of execution). Tomasino, a 1st round pick. Poile maybe passed up getting another 1st round pick from Philly to take a couple young players he hoped could step right in with Myers and Glass, and those players have turned into just about nothing also.

As a GM trying to build a winning team, that is A LOT of my top futures assets that I spent that my coach is really not developing... in fact, seems to be actively hindering/regressing their development. And it's not like we have some mega-contender here that we can afford to let those prime futures assets wither on the vine to sustain our championship run or anything.

So I've defended and approved of Poile's GM work for a very long time. People have complained about me defending Poile. But letting this coach do this is something that I can't defend. I don't see the point in it. It's not helping the team win games or look good on the ice in the present, and it's just taking a big parcel of our future hopes and dumping them away like they meant nothing at the same time. If I was in Poile's shoes I wouldn't have let those things happen, and if that meant firing the coach, so be it. I don't understand what he's waiting for. And while that is my only complaint with Poile, it is kind of starting to turn into a VERY BIG one the longer this goes on.

 

[Armourboy]

Yeah we didn't need to waive Tolvanen to call up anyone, so that as a reasoning makes zero sense. Once guys go on IR that frees up their roster spot. Friedman should know that better than anyone.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

That doesn't make any sense either. If you put guys on IR, even 3 defensemen, then you can call up 3 defensemen to replace them.

And at the same time as this, McCarron left also, leaving us another forward short. We are allowed to replace all of those with callups, we didn't have to send anybody down.

You don't have to believe me, listen to the latest episode of the 32 thoughts podcast. The only other factor is cap space, though I would argue if we really needed a defenseman, there is no way you probably couldnt have moved tolvanen for a d man of close value.

The thing Eliot said was it could be bad optics to send down a player who is consistently in the line-up. For whatever reason Jankowski and Smith and Parsnip have "earned" their sports more.

No saying I agree with it, but Eliot mentioned it could be bad optics for the locker room.

 

[herzausstein]

Poile chose then extended a coach that makes baffling personelle decisions. Hynes was chased out of new jersey for doing the same thing.... favoring aging vets over young players. Poile has done great things at times here but at some point you need fresh perspective.

 

[Armourboy]

For me it is all about the coaching decision. I didn't like that he kept Hynes after the way the team disintegrated down the stretch last season. But I also cannot fathom why he lets the coach make some of these personnel decisions. Tolvanen is just one more straw on the back. But as GM Poile gave up good assets to acquire a young former 1st round pick in Kunin, and he turned from a player who looked useful when first acquired into something approximating total garbage. Tolvanen was a 1st round pick. Fabbro was in the process of being sidelined out of town similarly, another 1st rounder (maybe the injuries on D have granted him a stay of execution). Tomasino, a 1st round pick. Poile maybe passed up getting another 1st round pick from Philly to take a couple young players he hoped could step right in with Myers and Glass, and those players have turned into just about nothing also.

As a GM trying to build a winning team, that is A LOT of my top futures assets that I spent that my coach is really not developing... in fact, seems to be actively hindering/regressing their development. And it's not like we have some mega-contender here that we can afford to let those prime futures assets wither on the vine to sustain our championship run or anything.

So I've defended and approved of Poile's GM work for a very long time. People have complained about me defending Poile. But letting this coach do this is something that I can't defend. I don't see the point in it. It's not helping the team win games or look good on the ice in the present, and it's just taking a big parcel of our future hopes and dumping them away like they meant nothing at the same time. If I was in Poile's shoes I wouldn't have let those things happen, and if that meant firing the coach, so be it. I don't understand what he's waiting for. And while that is my only complaint with Poile, it is kind of starting to turn into a VERY BIG one the longer this goes on.

Yep dead on. I was the one here at the end of the season telling everyone to just let it go because the owners were never going to fire him, so as a defender I've been about as solid as it gets around here. So for me to be done with him it should say something.

He's made some bad asset decisions in recent years along with getting and keeping Hynes. Hynes should have never even survived the end of last season let alone gotten a 2 years extension.

 

[Armourboy]

You don't have to believe me, listen to the latest episode of the 32 thoughts podcast. The only other factor is cap space, though I would argue if we really needed a defenseman, there is no way you probably couldnt have moved tolvanen for a d man of close value.

The thing Eliot said was it could be bad optics to send down a player who is consistently in the line-up. For whatever reason Jankowski and Smith and Parsnip have "earned" their sports more.

No saying I agree with it, but Eliot mentioned it could be bad optics for the locker room.

That's the point though, there shouldn't be any bad optics to make, at least not right this minute. Guys on IR and in player protocol don't take up a roster spot so there was no need to send anyone down to start with. Cap space could be an issue I suppose depending on who you are bringing in but as you said you should have been able to get some trade value for him rather than losing him for nothing.

Like I don't expect a cup contender to pick up Tolvanen, but there are some developing teams, heck even a team like Edmonton that could use a winger that is at least defensively responsible and has shown some glimpses of offensive upside. Like if he gets through waivers I gotta wonder if there isn't a bunch of collusion and good ole boy stuff going on because even Jost got claimed and he hasn't even been as good as Tolvanen.

 

[Predsanddead24]

Daugherty also pointed out that it's likely that Tolvanen got waived prior to McCarron entering the player assistance program. Which when you look at the roster numbers makes the most sense because as others have noted we are now going to need to call up another forward. Hopefully it's Novak (Nurmi or Afanasyev would be interesting too) but wouldn't be surprised if we see Sherwood either,

 

[weeze]

Ek saying Preds are most likely spot for Puljujarvi trade as of late last night. Why!
Ek

 

[Predsanddead24]

One other thing with Tolvanen is that when he's played with Glass this season (mostly with Cole Smith too) they have been very good. 37 minutes of 5v5 TOI with 2GF to 1GA and great advanced stats too (74.4 xGF%). Naturally we basically didn't use that line at all despite it being good and keeping Cole Smith in the lineup since that seems to be a requirement,