Predators Hockey Discussion 22-23

[Kat Predator]

To be fair, I'm not even sure if his scoring proficiency was "oversold" per se... he actually did do the things he did in the KHL and Olympics as a teenager. And those things really were that rare and unexpected for a player that age. It didn't take us very long to figure out that was a bit of an anomaly once we got him in house. But he also really did do those things and earn that hype legitimately, for as short a period as it happened to last.

I would kind of like to see him... as a Duck maybe? Young team with no real expectations, hopefully he would get good opportunity there? I don't know the specific openings for all the waiver-priority teams with Cap space, but the Ducks seem like a team that may have some patience and opportunity right about now? It's not the evil Perry and Kesler team anymore.

Yeah, I see what you mean. I think he was oversold as an "offensive savior" despite a pretty limited sample size. He has some real talent as a shooter, and I am not questioning that. But the hype that he was going to be the next Patrick Laine was a mirage that I don't think will materialize.

I think he could be a solid 3rd line guy and help a team. I just think Hynes and the organization wanted him to be Fil Forsberg 2.0 and didn't seem to think he could fill any other role.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Yeah, I see what you mean. I think he was oversold as an "offensive savior" despite a pretty limited sample size. He has some real talent as a shooter, and I am not questioning that. But the hype that he was going to be the next Patrick Laine was a mirage that I don't think will materialize.

I think he could be a solid 3rd line guy and help a team. I just think Hynes and the organization wanted him to be Fil Forsberg 2.0 and didn't seem to think he could fill any other role.

He's not a Fil type. He COULD be a Luc Robitaille type with that shot (though obviously not to the same level as Luc), but he's not very good about finding open spaces like Luc was and he doesn't score all that often with the shot either. It can (and will) be argued that coaches haven't deployed him correctly to take advantage of his skill set but I also haven't really seen much to suggest he's really capable of taking that next step in his game on the offensive end regardless of usage/deployment.

 

[Kat Predator]

He's not a Fil type. He COULD be a Luc Robitaille type with that shot (though obviously not to the same level as Luc), but he's not very good about finding open spaces like Luc was and he doesn't score all that often with the shot either. It can (and will) be argued that coaches haven't deployed him correctly to take advantage of his skill set but I also haven't really seen much to suggest he's really capable of taking that next step in his game on the offensive end regardless of usage/deployment.

Yep. I don't see him ever bringing bushel baskets of goals to the table. His role is a guy with a solid 200 foot game who can contribute some secondary scoring. And there is nothing wrong with that. But he's not going to be Mr. Creative and put a team on his back. (Nor is he going to become a true power forward, which isn't what I meant.) More to the point, our coaching staff has a coaching woody for Cole "He's Never Made a Mistake" Smith who is a solid 200 foot player without a shot. Smith has an edge in size, grinder play, and willingness to get in fights though.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Yep. I don't see him ever bringing bushel baskets of goals to the table. His role is a guy with a solid 200 foot game who can contribute some secondary scoring. And there is nothing wrong with that. But he's not going to be Mr. Creative and put a team on his back. (Nor is he going to become a true power forward, which isn't what I meant.) More to the point, our coaching staff has a coaching woody for Cole "He's Never Made a Mistake" Smith who is a solid 200 foot player without a shot. Smith has an edge in size, grinder play, and willingness to get in fights though.

Speaking of Smiths... I can see Tolvanen having a sort of a Smith-like career... the Craig type. If he gets in the right spot and things go well for him, anyway.

 

[Olderfan]

Preds forwards might play better if they ever played with the same line mates 2 games in a row. Good grief, I can’t keep up with who’s out there. You’d think the coach would have a better idea of who his forward lines should be by this time. Preds have played a few games now and lines are suddenly all over the place. Never really been a Hynes fan but tiring of giving him the benefit of the doubt. He’s a youngster’s teacher coaching men.

 

[Kat Predator]

Preds forwards might play better if they ever played with the same line mates 2 games in a row. Good grief, I can’t keep up with who’s out there. You’d think the coach would have a better idea of who his forward lines should be by this time. Preds have played a few games now and lines are suddenly all over the place. Never really been a Hynes fan but tiring of giving him the benefit of the doubt. He’s a youngster’s teacher coaching men.

The real kick in the bean bag will be if Hynes scythes through the prospect pool before getting canned. Being stuck with 30+ guys on high dollar, long-term contracts and an empty cupboard wouldn't seem to be a very attractive situation for the next coach to dive into.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Preds forwards might play better if they ever played with the same line mates 2 games in a row. Good grief, I can’t keep up with who’s out there. You’d think the coach would have a better idea of who his forward lines should be by this time. Preds have played a few games now and lines are suddenly all over the place. Never really been a Hynes fan but tiring of giving him the benefit of the doubt. He’s a youngster’s teacher coaching men.

I suspect he's also fairly desperate at this point. The Preds gave him a 2-yr extension, the lowest a team could go, since you can't hang a dead-man-walking 1-yr deal on a coach and expect his room to take him seriously. He knows the team fell apart and he might have been fired after last season. But he got the merest extra bit of lifeline opportunity given to him. And that's not going so well either. He probably feels like he doesn't have the slack to trust young players or skill players, he's flailing. Poile has given him all the roster moves he has wanted, which is sort of the noble/honorable thing to do for your coach, but...

I don't think he's coaching like a youngster's teacher anymore either. He's coaching like a drowning man, going back to his trieds and trues, like Granlund and Smith in their roles, or whoever he happens to like for whatever reasons. Grasping at straws. If he would instead actually be a youngster's coach and play his kids and give players fair opportunities, instead of just his favorites and his "safety nets", that would actually be better. Maybe not in the standings, who knows, but it couldn't be much worse. At least it'd be better for those youngsters, and hence our future.

 

[glenngineer]

The team is 6-3-1 in its last 10, beating the Metro Div leader and Eastern conf WC1 in their barns. Now back to the lies about what this team is or isn’t doing since discussing it from a point of reality and fact is a now foreign concept here.

You do realize bad teams beat good teams and have success for a limited time. They also barely beat one of the worst teams in the league having to take it to OT.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

You do realize bad teams beat good teams and have success for a limited time. They also barely beat one of the worst teams in the league having to take it to OT.

They got manhandled in some games they got points from also. Right now, 11th in the Conference and -11 is slightly flattering to the level they've played at.

I mean, they're not going to be Arizona, Chicago, San Jose, or Anaheim bad this year. But without some luck they probably deserve to be closer to those teams than they are. And things aren't looking better schedule-wise or with the player losses.

So if anybody thinks this team is doing well, I don't think they are watching the games much.

 

[ShagDaddy]

Preds forwards might play better if they ever played with the same line mates 2 games in a row. Good grief, I can’t keep up with who’s out there. You’d think the coach would have a better idea of who his forward lines should be by this time. Preds have played a few games now and lines are suddenly all over the place. Never really been a Hynes fan but tiring of giving him the benefit of the doubt. He’s a youngster’s teacher coaching men.

Hynes really isn’t a “youngster’s teaching coach”, that may have been his reputation prior to getting a HC job in the NHL but since joining the NHL, he hasn’t shown to be able to develop young players. While in NJ, he pretty much did the exact same thing that he has done here. Favoring veterans and journeymen and keeping a very short leash on the young developing players.

 

[herzausstein]

The team is 6-3-1 in its last 10, beating the Metro Div leader and Eastern conf WC1 in their barns. Now back to the lies about what this team is or isn’t doing since discussing it from a point of reality and fact is a now foreign concept here.

The team is 29th in the league in goals per game at 2.60 and 16th in goals against per game at 3.08. While you may get some short term wins due to great goaltending like with Lankinen against the Islanders, it's not a long term success plan. Evntually that reality will have to be addressed and waiving any if our players with offensive upside seems counter to addressing goalscoring issues.

 

[Hose Pipe]

Fire David Poile

 

[PredsV82]

The fact that Tolvanen is waived means nobody would even give us a 7th for him. Incredible.

Fire David Poile

Over Eeli Tolvanen? C'mon man. It's pretty obvious nobody else values him much at all or a trade would have happened.

 

[hockey diva]

We are playing some almost unwatchable hockey. There is no speed, no continuity, they look like a bunch of mites playing chase the puck. As usual, we will play just good enough to finish just out of a playoff spot and not bad enough to draft some elite talent. Sigh.

 

[Armourboy]

The fact that Tolvanen is waived means nobody would even give us a 7th for him. Incredible.


Over Eeli Tolvanen? C'mon man. It's pretty obvious nobody else values him much at all or a trade would have happened.

I'll be honest if I were the owner when I saw that waiver wire Hynes would have been fired and I would tell Poile to finish out the season and then retire.

 

[ShagDaddy]

I'll be honest if I were the owner when I saw that waiver wire Hynes would have been fired and I would tell Poile to finish out the season and then retire.

The owners are pretty much on autopilot. They’ve admitted in the past that they’re not hockey people and rely on poile to take care of the “hockey stuff”. We will see if f this remains to be the case when Haslam gains majority control of the team.

 

[LCPreds]

Or maybe you misunderstand what "level of success" I am claiming? 102 pts and a first round playoff loss - in a competitive series against the likes of STL/MIN/DAL is not really what I think of as a very high level of success? But still something I definitely feel this team should be capable of. And if we managed to beat one of those teams in that competitive first round series, then nice, we might even get to a second round series. It's nothing very large to hope for, nor should have been too much to expect.

34 people voted in that poll, and only 1 that we'd miss the playoffs. There might have been a few joke votes at the top of the poll, but 26/34 said 2nd or 3rd in the Central.

I think a lot of folks, myself included, gave them more credit for last season than we should have given. It now looks as if the positives from last season might have been outliers.

 

[Armourboy]

The owners are pretty much on autopilot. They’ve admitted in the past that they’re not hockey people and rely on poile to take care of the “hockey stuff”. We will see if f this remains to be the case when Haslam gains majority control of the team.

That's why I said if. I know our spineless group of owners won't do anything.

 

[PredsV82]

That's why I said if. I know our spineless group of owners won't do anything.

Your "spineless" group of owners is the only reason we still root for the NASHVILLE Predators.

They stepped up big when we had to have it, and they have the good sense not to be "hands on" owners when they dont know shit about hockey.

The results will drive actions. They spent a shitload of money signing our top guys. One year may not result in dramatic change but I am.fairly certain consecutive bad seasons with this payroll will bring the Poile era to an end. But it wont be because one fringe 1st rounder didnt pan out.

 

[Armourboy]

Your "spineless" group of owners is the only reason we still root for the NASHVILLE Predators.

They stepped up big when we had to have it, and they have the good sense not to be "hands on" owners when they dont know shit about hockey.

The results will drive actions. They spent a shitload of money signing our top guys. One year may not result in dramatic change but I am.fairly certain consecutive bad seasons with this payroll will bring the Poile era to an end. But it wont be because one fringe 1st rounder didnt pan out.

The decision wouldn't be based off of one 1st rounder not panning out, throwing him away for nothing because of a crap coach he keeps signing would just be the final straw.

 

[101st_fan]

You do realize bad teams beat good teams and have success for a limited time. They also barely beat one of the worst teams in the league having to take it to OT.

You do realize that if the hyperbole here were fact that the team would be last in the league, right? People here claim the Preds only beat bad teams and when recent shows that is false we get your pivot here.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

I think a lot of folks, myself included, gave them more credit for last season than we should have given. It now looks as if the positives from last season might have been outliers.

It was always going to be a struggle if even a handful of guys failed to maintain (or improve on) their production from last year. Nino has replaced Cousins' production and probably Tomasino's as well, but Trenin on pace for 8 after 17 last year, Jeannot on pace for 10-11 after 24 last year, Duchene pacing ~20 after 43 a year ago, etc... we just don't have sufficient firepower (even if we played all the prospect wunderkinds in optimal situations) to weather that type of drop-off.

 

[101st_fan]

The team is 29th in the league in goals per game at 2.60 and 16th in goals against per game at 3.08. While you may get some short term wins due to great goaltending like with Lankinen against the Islanders, it's not a long term success plan. Evntually that reality will have to be addressed and waiving any if our players with offensive upside seems counter to addressing goalscoring issues.

The amazing thing is that goals for is but one factor. The most goals for and goals per game didn’t result in a Cup last season.

 

[BigFatCat999]

Your "spineless" group of owners is the only reason we still root for the NASHVILLE Predators.

They stepped up big when we had to have it, and they have the good sense not to be "hands on" owners when they dont know shit about hockey.

The results will drive actions. They spent a shitload of money signing our top guys. One year may not result in dramatic change but I am.fairly certain consecutive bad seasons with this payroll will bring the Poile era to an end. But it wont be because one fringe 1st rounder didnt pan out.

1st rounder at the end of the draft, he was given a chance in the top 6, most people outside of the fanbase has him clearing. There were 900 forwards in the NHL who scored more per game, 300 more who scored higher. It was on him, not Poile, not Hynes. Him.

 

[101st_fan]

It was always going to be a struggle if even a handful of guys failed to maintain (or improve on) their production from last year. Nino has replaced Cousins' production and probably Tomasino's as well, but Trenin on pace for 8 after 17 last year, Jeannot on pace for 10-11 after 24 last year, Duchene pacing ~20 after 43 a year ago, etc... we just don't have sufficient firepower (even if we played all the prospect wunderkinds in optimal situations) to weather that type of drop-off.

Duchene’s falloff is a key issue. He’s on pace for about 1/4 of his 5on5 goal scoring of last year … 15ish fewer goals in that situation. His 3 empty net goals look good on his stat sheet but that isn’t a ln aspect of the game that puts the team back into a game or gives them a lead. … it’s padding against a team playing in desperation mode at that point.

Nino is on pace for 30ish as of now. Cousins, Kunin, and Tomasino scored 33 combined.