Predators Hockey Discussion 22-23

[Roman Yoshi]

This team is a joke.

 

[Scoresberg]

Can’t wait for him to go all Fiala on us.

 

[bdub24]

So, you’re telling me you couldn’t trade him for anything?

This is the dumbest f***ing move I think I’ve ever seen them make.

 

[hido]

I am assuming they tried to trade him and there were no takers?

 

[101st_fan]

Tolvanen has about two good 5-6 week steaks in his pro career… one with Jokerit and his PP feast on two bad teams in the COVID realigned division. Hopes for his play and reality haven’t aligned in a couple of years. His couple of decent games to start the season (3 pts first 3 games) didn’t continue and he’s struggling to find an everyday spot. Permascratch or AHL … which is better for him?

 

[LCPreds]

Is this what the beginning of dark times looks like?

 

[cjerina]

I am assuming they tried to trade him and there were no takers?

Or Rich Peverley 2.0... "we didn't think anyone would trade for him"

 

[glenngineer]

Hope he goes somewhere, succeeds and Poile becomes the next JRob.

Tolvanen has about two good 5-6 week steaks in his pro career… one with Jokerit and his PP feast on two bad teams in the COVID realigned division. Hopes for his play and reality haven’t aligned in a couple of years. His couple of decent games to start the season (3 pts first 3 games) didn’t continue and he’s struggling to find an everyday spot. Permascratch or AHL … which is better for him?

He was a better option in the bottom 6 than some of the guys we were playing. While he wasn't going to pan out to be a top 6 player, he had value in the bottom 6.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

So, you’re telling me you couldn’t trade him for anything?

His agent probably asked for a trade awhile back when he started sitting, and this is Poile saying, see, nobody was willing to trade.

But still. It's just the sheer dumbness of Hynes that put him there, and it's just doubling-down on that dumbness for Poile to back the dumb coach on that.

Anyway, hopefully Tolvanen gets claimed and can start playing regularly again somewhere, he should be a regular player IMHO. He's not going to "go Fiala" or anything. But I also don't think he's like Aberg or Pitlick or whoever that ends up out of the league. I feel like he's got a regular career ahead of him. I hope he lands in the right place to make that happen.

 

[bdub24]

I bet Chicago takes him

 

[glenngineer]

His agent probably asked for a trade awhile back when he started sitting, and this is Poile saying, see, nobody was willing to trade.

But still. It's just the sheer dumbness of Hynes that put him there, and it's just doubling-down on that dumbness for Poile to back the dumb coach on that.

Anyway, hopefully Tolvanen gets claimed and can start playing regularly again somewhere, he should be a regular player IMHO. He's not going to "go Fiala" or anything. But I also don't think he's like Aberg or Pitlick or whoever that ends up out of the league. I feel like he's got a regular career ahead of him. I hope he lands in the right place to make that happen.

A left-handed shot with a legit one-timer should be used on the right faceoff dot on the PP. Instead, they play him on the side where he has to settle the puck, skate toward the goalie and take wrist shots, allowing the goalie to move and get set and we wonder why his goal production wasn't where it needed to be.

He was asked to play a 200-foot game. He did. He was asked to play more physically. He did. He was asked to play on the PK. He did. What do we do with him? Bench him for guys much older who proved they weren't NHL-caliber players only to waive him. Such poor development and asset management.

 

[cwede]

Was the McCarron news out before ET got waived?

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I suppose I should say something for Big Mac too... hope he gets well and has a nice life, beyond whatever struggles he is going through.

But I frankly won't miss seeing him on the ice. He did turn into a decent 4th liner for us at some point last year, against all expectations. Just I don't think our team really lacks the things he does to the extent that we really need to justify having him on the roster. We have other big, physical players. We don't need them to the excess that he represented. If Jankowski and Smith are better than him and Sanford, then it's a step forward if we no longer have Sanford and McCarron around. That's progress. Presumably Tomasino will come up now. Although ironic that Tolvanen didn't make it through to seeing this spot open up.

 

[101st_fan]

He was a better option in the bottom 6 than some of the guys we were playing. While he wasn't going to pan out to be a top 6 player, he had value in the bottom 6.

If only his actual performance supported that. He had his shot to grab a spot and let it get away from him again. He isn’t in the PK rotation, he’s been ineffective on the PP since the end of March, beginning of April 2021, and got bypassed at ES.

Again, which is better for him … permascratch or AHL? It would be amazing if the flash of glory from Jokerit or FEB/MAR 2021 was the norm but it is the clear exception.

 

[BigFatCat999]

What I would do if I was Preds GM:

Pull the chute

Make as many deals as I can to put players on LTIR (max cap to put Boro and McD on LTIR), play kingmaker, Make deals to eat cap/cash on deals so contenders can make deals.

(Tolvanen might get claimed! There is 11 teams with projected cap space for Tolvanen's contract. Is he a solution to ANY of them? Nope. My expectation? Tolvanen clears, goes to Milwaukee and gives the Preds a mil of cap).

Tell everyone over 28 that they are trade bait, list their locations and NTL.

Make trades to move up the draft. Preds have 9 picks; 1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 7. I would like 10 and raise one of the 3's up, and one of the 4's

When it comes to this team I am optimistic. The injury bug might be an opportunity for the club. Teams DESPERATELY need cap space and the Preds might have that coming.

Also the injuries are at the BOTTOM of the depth chart. Tolvanen (Press box guy), Big Sexy (press box guy), Lauzon (3rd pairing), Boro (7th d). Carrier and McD hurt, no lie, But I want to wait and see.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

What I would do if I was Preds GM:

Pull the chute

...

Or just fire the coach. This team should be good enough to make the playoffs and have a competitive playoff round or two.

But neither your crash course in tanking nor my coaching change are actually what's going to happen. We both know that.

 

[LCPreds]

Or just fire the coach. This team should be good enough to make the playoffs and have a competitive playoff round or two.

I'm actually curious why you think the this team should have this level of success. I feel like last season was more of an outlier to the good for a few of our players. They've crashed down hard this year and whether this is regression to the mean or something worse than the mean remains to be seen. Both of the last two seasons have had either terrible starts or terrible finishes. But in neither of the last two seasons did I feel like this team was a playoff lock and/or should have made some noise in the first round or two of the playoffs.

 

[herzausstein]

So with boro and McDonagh on ir and McCarron in player assistance we have 21 roster players. Now with tolvanen being waived thatll put us to 20. Im assuming lauzon will be out atleast a couple games. Not sure what happened to carrier but if they arent going to be out long enough to go ir we still wouldve had room to recall 2 dmen without needs for waivers.

 

[herzausstein]

I sincerely hope tolvanen is picked up and succeeds somewhere. It may hasten change in the front office and coaching

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I'm actually curious why you think the this team should have this level of success. I feel like last season was more of an outlier to the good for a few of our players. They've crashed down hard this year and whether this is regression to the mean or something worse than the mean remains to be seen. Both of the last two seasons have had either terrible starts or terrible finishes. But in neither of the last two seasons did I feel like this team was a playoff lock and/or should have made some noise in the first round or two of the playoffs.

Just read here:

Preseason Predictions Thread 22-23

With the season finally upon us figured I'd throw up a thread for people to make their preseason predictions. Here are some of mine: Regular Season Finish: 2nd Central (108 points) Playoff Finish: Lose 2nd Round (to Avs) Goals Leader: Forsberg Points Leader: Josi Regular Season Champs...

forums.hfboards.com

I don't think my position is much different from what the majority of us thought before the season. We had a Norris finalist D man, we had a Vezina finalist goalie. We felt like we needed a 2nd line winger and a more stable dman, plus a backup goalie we could actually rely on... we added Niedereitter and McDonagh and Lankinen to very directly fill those needs. We were a little unsure that we could truly count on the offense being repeated from Forsberg and Duchene, but we also had some youngsters progressing, such as Tomasino, who might help backfill any such return to earth from the big guns.

The picture before the season started was a lot rosier than it has turned out. 2nd or 3rd in our division should not have been out of reach. That's not some magical level of improvement. That's 3 or 4 more wins. Given we directly filled our 3 biggest positional needs, and given we had some reason to hope for development and further progress from younger players like Tomasino, Tolvanen, Glass, Fabbro, Carrier, Trenin, Jeannot... I do not feel like it was an unrealistic expectation to set. Nor did the majority of fans here who participated in that pre-season poll.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I'm actually curious why you think the this team should have this level of success. I feel like last season was more of an outlier to the good for a few of our players. They've crashed down hard this year and whether this is regression to the mean or something worse than the mean remains to be seen. Both of the last two seasons have had either terrible starts or terrible finishes. But in neither of the last two seasons did I feel like this team was a playoff lock and/or should have made some noise in the first round or two of the playoffs.

Or maybe you misunderstand what "level of success" I am claiming? 102 pts and a first round playoff loss - in a competitive series against the likes of STL/MIN/DAL is not really what I think of as a very high level of success? But still something I definitely feel this team should be capable of. And if we managed to beat one of those teams in that competitive first round series, then nice, we might even get to a second round series. It's nothing very large to hope for, nor should have been too much to expect.

34 people voted in that poll, and only 1 that we'd miss the playoffs. There might have been a few joke votes at the top of the poll, but 26/34 said 2nd or 3rd in the Central.

 

[herzausstein]

Just read here:

Preseason Predictions Thread 22-23

With the season finally upon us figured I'd throw up a thread for people to make their preseason predictions. Here are some of mine: Regular Season Finish: 2nd Central (108 points) Playoff Finish: Lose 2nd Round (to Avs) Goals Leader: Forsberg Points Leader: Josi Regular Season Champs...

forums.hfboards.com

I don't think my position is much different from what the majority of us thought before the season. We had a Norris finalist D man, we had a Vezina finalist goalie. We felt like we needed a 2nd line winger and a more stable dman, plus a backup goalie we could actually rely on... we added Niedereitter and McDonagh and Lankinen to very directly fill those needs. We were a little unsure that we could truly count on the offense being repeated from Forsberg and Duchene, but we also had some youngsters progressing, such as Tomasino, who might help backfill any such return to earth from the big guns.

The picture before the season started was a lot rosier than it has turned out. 2nd or 3rd in our division should not have been out of reach. That's not some magical level of improvement. That's 3 or 4 more wins. Given we directly filled our 3 biggest positional needs, and given we had some reason to hope for development and further progress from younger players like Tomasino, Tolvanen, Glass, Fabbro, Carrier, Trenin, Jeannot... I do not feel like it was an unrealistic expectation to set. Nor did the majority of fans here who participated in that pre-season poll.

Many of us were imagining a "kid line" ... instead we got tomasino in the ahl, tolvanen on his way there if he isnt grabbed off the waiver wire, and glass lucky to get 9 mins a night

 

[Kat Predator]

His agent probably asked for a trade awhile back when he started sitting, and this is Poile saying, see, nobody was willing to trade.

But still. It's just the sheer dumbness of Hynes that put him there, and it's just doubling-down on that dumbness for Poile to back the dumb coach on that.

Anyway, hopefully Tolvanen gets claimed and can start playing regularly again somewhere, he should be a regular player IMHO. He's not going to "go Fiala" or anything. But I also don't think he's like Aberg or Pitlick or whoever that ends up out of the league. I feel like he's got a regular career ahead of him. I hope he lands in the right place to make that happen.

Pitlick is on the exact same trajectory as Sherwood and Sanford, who our coaching staff thought were top-6 forwards at one point this season.

I hope Tolvanen gets a chance somewhere. His scoring proficiency was oversold from the beginning, but that doesn't mean he can't play. It's more like we just didn't know how to use him.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Pitlick is on the exact same trajectory as Sherwood and Sanford, who our coaching staff thought were top-6 forwards at one point this season.

I hope Tolvanen gets a chance somewhere. His scoring proficiency was oversold from the beginning, but that doesn't mean he can't play. It's more like we just didn't know how to use him.

To be fair, I'm not even sure if his scoring proficiency was "oversold" per se... he actually did do the things he did in the KHL and Olympics as a teenager. And those things really were that rare and unexpected for a player that age. It didn't take us very long to figure out that was a bit of an anomaly once we got him in house. But he also really did do those things and earn that hype legitimately, for as short a period as it happened to last.

I would kind of like to see him... as a Duck maybe? Young team with no real expectations, hopefully he would get good opportunity there? I don't know the specific openings for all the waiver-priority teams with Cap space, but the Ducks seem like a team that may have some patience and opportunity right about now? It's not the evil Perry and Kesler team anymore.

 

[101st_fan]

The team is 6-3-1 in its last 10, beating the Metro Div leader and Eastern conf WC1 in their barns. Now back to the lies about what this team is or isn’t doing since discussing it from a point of reality and fact is a now foreign concept here.