Predators Hockey Discussion 22-23

[triggrman]

Hipcheck85 had a great timely tweet last night with the song lyric from a popular Outfield song

 

[drwpreds]

All I can say about last night is I have been watching hockey for a LONG, LONG time- absolute die hard hockey fan. Have seen thousands of games. I have either watched in person or on TV every single Preds game for the last 15+ years. And that abomination last night is without a doubt about as bad a game as a professional hockey team can have. The Preds staff should have stood at the doors when people left handing out refunds and apologies-

There have been bigger margins of defeat in games, for sure. But you can't have a much worse effort than that one last night. Again I will repeat- over a 40 minute span of hockey, we had THREE shots on goal. And the defense was just as bad. Vegas probably could have scored 10 if they had wanted to.

And again, this was a Vegas team that came in in a complete tailspin, having lost 4 straight and 7 of their last 8.

So in one night the Preds have completely squashed the small momentum they had going and the cautious optimism of a very weary fan base.

Just a complete and absolute fail- completely depressing..

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

All I can say about last night is I have been watching hockey for a LONG, LONG time- absolute die hard hockey fan. Have seen thousands of games. I have either watched in person or on TV every single Preds game for the last 15+ years. And that abomination last night is without a doubt about as bad a game as a professional hockey team can have. The Preds staff should have stood at the doors when people left handing out refunds and apologies-

There have been bigger margins of defeat in games, for sure. But you can't have a much worse effort than that one last night. Again I will repeat- over a 40 minute span of hockey, we had THREE shots on goal. And the defense was just as bad. Vegas probably could have scored 10 if they had wanted to.

And again, this was a Vegas team that came in in a complete tailspin, having lost 4 straight and 7 of their last 8.

So in one night the Preds have completely squashed the small momentum they had going and the cautious optimism of a very weary fan base.

Just a complete and absolute fail- completely depressing..

And in case anybody was wondering, Vegas was coming off their bye week + ASG as well, they hadn't played since January 28th either.

 

[Armourboy]

Hope get back on track after this but I did warn that we have a tendency to bottom out after a break. We did it last year too. If this lasts very long you can kiss any hope of the playoffs goodbye.

 

[glenngineer]

Why Hynes wasn't fired over the break and replaced was a mistake. Him not having a pink slip this morning was an even bigger mistake. How you watch last night's game and find it acceptable to have him behind the bench any longer is beyond me.

You love to flip lines yet when your team has generated 6 shots after 2 periods you ice the same lines for the third? After the first, he should've tried to jump start the team by saying, the 9 guys that want to show me they want their ice time tonight have to earn it. Let them each play a shift or two and then play your best 9 the majority of the night. He's too stupid to do simple things. In game adjustments are not his thing and when he does do them, you're like, why are you doing that?

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Why Hynes wasn't fired over the break and replaced was a mistake. Him not having a pink slip this morning was an even bigger mistake. How you watch last night's game and find it acceptable to have him behind the bench any longer is beyond me.

You love to flip lines yet when your team has generated 6 shots after 2 periods you ice the same lines for the third? After the first, he should've tried to jump start the team by saying, the 9 guys that want to show me they want their ice time tonight have to earn it. Let them each play a shift or two and then play your best 9 the majority of the night. He's too stupid to do simple things. In game adjustments are not his thing and when he does do them, you're like, why are you doing that?

Tbh I think it would have made the most sense to fire him some time in December when we bottomed out our playoff odds. Nothing significant has changed… apart from a surprising January record which included a few undeserved wins.

Anyway I don’t see the upside in keeping him now either… what’s going to happen? We’re going to miss the playoffs - most likely - and then what point did it serve to have him coach out the stretch? It just puts more pressure on his replacement to start next season. Or… we go on a miracle run and make the playoffs… how far do we have to carry that miracle to make up for most of a season of “WTF”? I don’t see what we’re learning by dragging this out.

 

[Kat Predator]

I think GMDP keeps Hynes at this point. [Ed: GMDP basically going down with the ship.]

Assuming nothing much changes, GMDP will have spent up to the cap on this season—going all in and giving Hynes the players he needed to win was what Poile told us he did this year at the start of the season—and the team will fail to make the playoffs.

The question then will be if that is a wake up call or not? And if it is a wake up call, what will he do, if anything, to actually improve the team going forward?

 

[LeighDx59]

Even if Hynes job was on the line, poile isn’t gonna come out and say it. He’s got no balls in that department. Never shows his hand for better or worse

Didn't he backup Lavi a few weeks before he ended up firing him? or am I mis-remembering that?

 

[Scoresberg]

We are in a rough spot honestly. We're a veteran team with bloated contracts all over the place yet we are nowhere close to contending.

We've been trying to inject some youth into the lineup without getting any better results. Our youth mostly consists of middle-six talent, so hoping for a miracle there is a waste of time.

The only options we have right now is to change coaches and try to light the spark under this current core one more time. Either that, or gut the dead weight on the team and head for a re-tool. This current stage of constant mediocrity year in and year out is not going to lead us anywhere short- or long-term.

 

[Armourboy]

Tbh at this point a total retool of the forwards wouldn't be any more painful than what we are watching now. You've already got enough centers, just keep either Joey or Sissons, bring the kids up from Milwaukee to play wing and move everyone else out. Heck Poile could even keep Smith in this scenario if it made him happy. I'd rather watch that and lose than a bunch of underperforming vets.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Tbh at this point a total retool of the forwards wouldn't be any more painful than what we are watching now. You've already got enough centers, just keep either Joey or Sissons, bring the kids up from Milwaukee to play wing and move everyone else out. Heck Poile could even keep Smith in this scenario if it made him happy. I'd rather watch that and lose than a bunch of underperforming vets.

This is why I'm surprised Poile isn't considering a coaching change. He doesn't really have anywhere else to go to salvage this team he built. His one chance is to get the current group to perform better. The other option of tearing things down, while also valid, is something that is a long-term project that he won't be around to see the end of. It's also kind of not how I'd imagine he'd want to go out, with a last-place rebuilding team.

 

[Kat Predator]

Didn't he backup Lavi a few weeks before he ended up firing him? or am I mis-remembering that?

My recollection was that he didn't telegraph a hot seat situation, but he made some vague handwaving statements about players having to play better, etc.

At this point, his statements sound like Hynes is simply untouchable. Hence my earlier post about a wakeup call and whether Poile sleeps through it or not.

 

[Predsanddead24]

At this point I think you might as well just ride out the season under Hynes and reassess your options in the offseason. There aren't too many options for unemployed coaches I'd be too happy with. Trotz has said he's not interested in coming back until next season so that leaves Boudreau and I guess Quenneville if we wanted to be the ones to take that negative press. Taylor is my top pick but I'd almost rather let him ride things out in Milwaukee and get another playoff run under his belt there. That leaves us with an internal promotion and I'm not sure Hinote or Lambert taking over is actually much of an upgrade. We could also go with something totally off the wall like promoting Nichol or Scuderi and seeing what they can accomplish.

I think taking our time and assessing our options this offseason may be the best course of action. Plus, who knows maybe you get surprise firing that puts a solid coach back on the market. I could Sullivan getting fired if the Penguins missed the playoffs and I think he'd be great

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

We don't seem to hear Todd Richards much, but he's our assistant who has actual NHL head coaching experience, right?

Anyway, I'm not inclined to be too protective of Milwaukee in this situation. I would have no qualms about promoting Taylor and letting his assistants take over down there. Ford and Rallo have been there the whole time Taylor has, they should be ok to finish out a season.

33 games is still pretty significant IMO. Of course you'd have to know the room like none of us can, but if what we had been hearing before had any kernel of truth, then I don't see much point in just finishing out a season with a lame duck coach.

 

[triggrman]

We don't seem to hear Todd Richards much, but he's our assistant who has actual NHL head coaching experience, right?

Anyway, I'm not inclined to be too protective of Milwaukee in this situation. I would have no qualms about promoting Taylor and letting his assistants take over down there. Ford and Rallo have been there the whole time Taylor has, they should be ok to finish out a season.

33 games is still pretty significant IMO. Of course you'd have to know the room like none of us can, but if what we had been hearing before had any kernel of truth, then I don't see much point in just finishing out a season with a lame duck coach.

Honestly, he' wouldn't be able to do much on the fly. We would get better I'm sure but I don't know by how much. A full of season and training camp would make a huge difference.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Honestly, he' wouldn't be able to do much on the fly. We would get better I'm sure but I don't know by how much. A full of season and training camp would make a huge difference.

No, I agree it's not the "on the fly" result I'm looking for. I don't even know if we would get better, we might even get worse just with the transition effect.

I'm just thinking it would make the transition easier for next season if he already had that extra 33 games of time under his wheels.

 

[bdub24]

I’m not saying it is bad in the front office, but I just got a call from a very friendly young man who introduced himself as my new ticket rep going forward and made an offer on seats. Haven’t been an STH since 2016 when we had to move away…

 

[Predsanddead24]

Anyway, I'm not inclined to be too protective of Milwaukee in this situation.

I'm less concerned about Milwaukee and moreso what is best for Taylor's development as a coach. I think the opportunity to coach through another playoff run may be more beneficial than the games in the NHL. Especially since the Ads will likely gets Juuso and Novak back for a playoff they should have a very solid chance to win a Championship.

 

[hockey diva]

If the corporate sponsorships start to go down...

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I'm less concerned about Milwaukee and moreso what is best for Taylor's development as a coach. I think the opportunity to coach through another playoff run may be more beneficial than the games in the NHL. Especially since the Ads will likely gets Juuso and Novak back for a playoff they should have a very solid chance to win a Championship.

Maybe. I don't have any real sense of what kind of difference that would make to a coach. I guess my gut says just being in the whole NHL setup with NHL tools and budgets, and the NHL player mindsets, all that might be something that is worthwhile to get a "sneak preview" of getting used to.

But it would be basically if you think Taylor could be your guy going forward, vs. just an "interim replacement". I wouldn't do it if I was going to call him the "interim" guy, then turn around in the summer and hire some higher profile new guy.

 

[ILikeItILoveIt]

Poile History on Pred coaching changes:

Trotz was axed at the end of the season and Lavy was signed right after that, so all happening in the offseason.
Lavy was axed and Hynes was hired mid-season after we lost the Winter Classic.

Difference was, in 2014, Trotz was fired after two seasons of missing the playoffs. He was respected, almost revered, but it was time. With Lavy, expectations for the 2020 team were still high, we had great success in 2017-2019, so Poile was trying to shake the team up in hopes we'd catch lightening in a bottle and go on a run. Very emotional decision.

Our 2023 team is not our 2020 team. This change, if we make it, would be more measured, like the Trotz firing, and less emotional, like the Lavy firing.

Therefore, I predict, Poile sticks with Hynes, gives him the change to make the playoffs. If he makes it, he's back next year. If we fade and end 2023 like we ended 2014, he'll be fired right after the season is over, and Poile will hire the best available guy, like he did when he hired Lavy.

 

[AintLifeGrand]

Wish we could get Torts down here to Haze Forsberg Johansen and Duchene for the next few years

 

[Armourboy]

Oh it definitely won't happen til the season is over. If Poile was going to pull the trigger mid season he already would have. He will give Hynes a chance to circle the wagons.

Now if he keeps him the fans won't be happy and I think he will be on a short leash to start the next season. If he keeps him that whole season I expect Haslam to move Poile out and then fire Hynes.

 

[predwings]

This is why I'm surprised Poile isn't considering a coaching change. He doesn't really have anywhere else to go to salvage this team he built. His one chance is to get the current group to perform better. The other option of tearing things down, while also valid, is something that is a long-term project that he won't be around to see the end of. It's also kind of not how I'd imagine he'd want to go out, with a last-place rebuilding team.

I can tell you something he hasn't considered yet. Maybe all the coaches and players are not the full issue. The GM is a cloud of terrible drafting decisions and not much better on the coaching decisions either. I hate to be a downer here, but it's just time for Poile to go. We need a new GM to hire a new Coach to figure out a new system, because the system we've used was good to get us relevant and keep us somewhat relevant for a while. However, that system is not one that puts the cup in your hands. We need to find a bright future and build around it. Maybe that's Askarov, maybe it turns out to be the young forwards or someone we draft in the future, but it's just not going to happen with this current group of guys. They've shown time and time again that they are streaky and inconsistent.

 

[Kat Predator]

Oh it definitely won't happen til the season is over. If Poile was going to pull the trigger mid season he already would have. He will give Hynes a chance to circle the wagons.

Now if he keeps him the fans won't be happy and I think he will be on a short leash to start the next season. If he keeps him that whole season I expect Haslam to move Poile out and then fire Hynes.

I prefer to think of it as giving him as long a rope as possible.