Potential Atlanta NHL Expansion Team Thread
- Thread starter MMC
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BKIslandersFan
F*** off
If Atlanta and Houston is brought in to the fold (and by miracle Arizona stays), that pretty much covers all the major US markets doesn't it?
AtlantaWhaler
Thrash/Preds/Sabres
- Jul 3, 2009
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ponder719
M-M-M-Matvei and the Jett
The 5 largest MSAs without teams, if we add Houston and Atlanta without losing Phoenix, are Inland Empire, San Diego, Baltimore, Orlando, and San Antonio. Inland Empire and Baltimore have teams in their CSA, though, so San Diego would be the largest completely unserved area.
- Feb 18, 2018
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Tawnos
A guy with a bass
It's unlikely that Orlando or San Antonio are viable markets either because of their basketball teams and lack of X factor that would mitigate the doubling up.
KevFu
Registered User
CSA's are better, since MSAs can infringe on the territorial rights of the teams (Riverside/Inland Empire) and also show the available customers for an RSN much better...
Your top five right now by size would be: Houston, Atlanta, Portland, San Diego, Salt Lake. And those are all very viable candidates.
That's 4 West and 1 East...
Assuming that Orlando, Cleveland, Baltimore, Hartford, Charlotte, Cincinnati are off the table because of proximity to current teams, next up (again only by population of market) is...
Indianapolis (Building is NBA only)
Virginia Beach (too close to CAR?)
After that, you're getting into your Jacksonville (too small with NFL), Louisville, Richmond...
So really #6 is Quebec. Unless Nashville WANTS to be in the East, then you could look at Austin or San Antonio.
dj4aces
An Intricate Piece of Infinity
Honestly just spitballing here, because I really know nothing about the NHL's plans, but here are the trees I see in this dark and unknown forest before us:
1. Salt Lake. Kinda obvious Smith wants a team, and he wanted it yesterday. He'll get his team.
2. Atlanta. Also pretty obvious. Krause appears to be all-in, and he has the county behind him.
3. Houston. I see Fertitta making a play to get a team, possibly in an effort to get more funding for renovations or a fat subsidy for a new building, but I only see him as trying to a relocation.
4. Quebec City. All we really know for sure is they have a big new building with no anchor tenant, and you know Quebecor would love to have that.
5. San Diego. Like I said, they have plans for a new building. Whether or not there's someone there vying for a team is anyones guess, since Bettman hasn't mentioned the market.
6. Kansas City. They have an aging arena, built in part to attract the unlikely relocation of the Penguins. But the Chiefs' owner is allegedly interested, so who knows where this will go?
Then there's those outliers, the small trees. The Cincinnatis and Omahas of North America. Orlando, Jacksonville, Indy, even Halifax has been mentioned. This is where I see San Antonio and Austin. Of course, there might be someone in one of those places who's willing to pay the fees if Fertitta isn't.
In the Pagnotta article a couple pages back, it was also mentioned that alignment isn't an issue. There could be a number of reasons for this, including the idea they plan on dropping teams in their most logical divisions as they're added.
KevFu
Registered User
Yeah, I think the main thing that fans put backwards (because it's the only thing we CAN do) is view it as "Which market should get a team." Markets don't get teams, OWNERS get teams.
(obviously, they have to show the league how they can make money for themselves and everyone else within their market).
I do think that we tend to look at population size "too much" compared to adequately look at the sports dollars per person required to support teams, and it's definitely not equal in all sports.
Like, economists could tell you that you need 800,000 people per team. But an NFL team with $200m is going to lose their team and never be good, while an MLS team with $200m in revenue is going to be #1 in the league financially.
And the bigger thing is that you can't adequately compensate for the fact that even if you have 4 million people, you're not having different groups of 800,000 supporting a different team; chances are you're asking the SAME 800,000 people to support all five teams.
Of course, trying to make some kind of formula is flawed, because it's going to tell you that your best candidates are those with the least competition period. Like Hartford and Virginia Beach are going to win. Which is probably good for TEAM revenue, but not LEAGUE revenue from national TV.
sneakytitz
Registered User
Semi-related, not really but there is now an AthensProHockey.com website accepting deposits for a 2024-25 professional hockey team (goes to the Classic Center website/store). I presume this means Athens is getting an SPHL team.
Another great step forward in building hockey in Georgia.
Another great step forward in building hockey in Georgia.
dj4aces
An Intricate Piece of Infinity
There's really not much known about it right now, but it does make me wonder a bit.
A couple years back, Athens was supposedly going to receive an ECHL team. While the potential return of the NHL to Atlanta swirls about, and with that site now popping up, it's possible that Athens will receive an ECHL team and the Gladiators joins the AHL, or that Athens becomes the home of an AHL team.
Or, it could be nothing at all. Who among us can say for sure?
A couple years back, Athens was supposedly going to receive an ECHL team. While the potential return of the NHL to Atlanta swirls about, and with that site now popping up, it's possible that Athens will receive an ECHL team and the Gladiators joins the AHL, or that Athens becomes the home of an AHL team.
Or, it could be nothing at all. Who among us can say for sure?
GreenHornet
Registered User
You know, I mentioned this as a thought experiment a while back, and it's an interesting what-if (and that's all it is because I have no idea if there's a logistical or business model that could make it work). That said, what if Gladiators owners Alex Campbell and Anson Carter buy into a (very) small percentage of the KSEG-owned NHL team and KSEG buys into a small percentage of the Gladiators?
As a result, KSEG could help with some of the money needed to upgrade the Glads from the ECHL to the AHL (like whatever entry fee the latter charges), and they could also save a lot of money (and logistical headaches moving players back and forth) having their primary developmental team only a few miles away. And both teams could benefit by cross-promoting and cross-marketing with the other.
Of course, there's A LOT of different obstacles that could pop up, not the least of which is whether GSA would have to sign off on such a move and if they'd even be interested if so. Or for that matter, would either KSEG or Campbell/Carter even be interested.
Like I said, just a thought.
Just got that targeted ad today too. I would've loved to have minor league hockey in college. Cheap tickets and cheap beer. I bet it does well.
It's a crime that the Glads didn't become an AHL team in 2011. Stepping them up when the NHL finally comes back would almost be a kick in the nuts, although I don't know where else you'd put an AHL team nearby.
dj4aces
An Intricate Piece of Infinity
If the Gladiators were to move from the ECHL to the AHL, that's exactly it, right? A prospect could be told to get a house/apartment in Duluth or Johns Creek, and if they get called up to the NHL, they don't have to move anywhere. A lot of teams are trying to cut the distance between them and their developmental teams, and some NHL owners also own at least part of their AHL affiliates.
From where I'm sitting though, there's a whole lot that needs to happen before any of this other stuff becomes remote possibilities, least of which being the NHL talking more openly about expansion.
The Gladiators former owners were quite content with the team remaining a part of the ECHL, which as I understand it, is a very big reason why they're still in the ECHL. With Campbell and Carter now owning the franchise (as of October 2022), that feeling may change -- especially if/when the NHL makes its return to the region.
AtlantaWhaler
Thrash/Preds/Sabres
- Jul 3, 2009
- 20,254
- 3,531
The Georgia Fire Birds would be super cool.
dj4aces
An Intricate Piece of Infinity
The Ray and Dregs Hockey Podcast interviewed Don Waddell earlier today, and he relates a few stories from his time here in Atlanta. The link should start where the interview begins.
RoyalAir
Looks Better In Gold
Part of the reason I went to undergrad where I did was because of the ECHL team that played on campus. Had a blast, but it was never run or marketed as an event for students, but for the working professionals in the city.
As for an AHL franchise, Gwinnett would be a great location. This could also potentially open Chattanooga for an ECHL tenant, which would purely serve my own selfish desires.
GreenHornet
Registered User
I have absolutely NO interest in hearing anything that the Atlanta $pirit Septocluster's™ hit man has to say.
dj4aces
An Intricate Piece of Infinity
I look at it more like this... Waddell only ever did what ownership told him to. He was "the good little soldier". While that wouldn't excuse anyone from war crimes, those who are just following orders in a business will always land on their feet.
There's a *lot* I could say about Donnie. There's a lot of sour feelings I still have about the way the Thrashers situation went down, but there's only one thing that really matters: None of what happened here -- strictly from a business sense, not an on-ice product sense -- was his fault. I used to hold such bitterness for him as well, until I learned even more about the ownership situation than I thought I knew, and how much of that was detailed in various Atlanta Spirit court cases. The amount of knowledge of the situation that's out there in the open, yet went overlooked in favor of the Winnipeg return storyline, was beyond shocking to me.
I suppose that's why I'm more open to listening to and sharing the podcast. But with that said, I totally and completely understand why you wouldn't want to listen. Some of that anger is still there for me, too. In a way, I think it will remain with me until this area finally has its NHL redemption arc.
nhlfan79
Registered User
I know he kept quiet and only did ASG's bidding, so as not to burn any future bridges within the larger hockey fraternity. However, I can't imagine that a person of integrity wouldn't have quietly shopped around for opportunities elsewhere, once it became clear to him that ASG had no intentions of running the team in good faith. If it was me, and I was as connected as Waddell was, I'd do everything in my power to avoid getting that ASG stank on me.
He's done fine in Carolina, so it's not like he's bad at the job when actually given adequate resources.
He's done fine in Carolina, so it's not like he's bad at the job when actually given adequate resources.
nhlfan79
Registered User
sneakytitz
Registered User
Time will tell.
If the NHL comes back to Atlanta, I predict that the Gladiators move up to the AHL and Savannah becomes the ECHL affiliate. Athens and Macon are perfectly sized for SPHL franchises. Columbus has an FPHL team but hopefully the Cottonmouths come back one day. Crazy to think that in just a few years as many as 6 Georgia cities will be home to a hockey franchise. That really bodes well for the 3rd shot.
nhlfan79
Registered User
I can't see that happening. There's no way NHL Atlanta would cannibalize their own ticket sales by putting their much more reasonably priced AAA affiliate in the same market.
