Potential Atlanta NHL Expansion Team Thread

[AtlantaWhaler]

That was a baseball reference. Typically SE football region are fairweather fans in other sports. One of the key reasons hockey failed there before. Also the poor revenue per home game is a major factor. From a business standpoint, the only positive is just advertising coverage in national broadcasts. Other than that, few practical reasons can be considered here.

You just keep posting opinions without any backup. Your opinions are wrong, and they've been proven wrong with every post.

Where are you getting your revenue stats? Only hockey revenue news I see is the court docs stating that the Spirit Group lost a total of $150 million (including team value) in the final 6 years of owning the team. This proves that it was an ownership problem. I need to check, but I think the court shot that down, anyway.

The Braves are public which mean you can get their reported revenue. for 2022:

The Braves posted franchise-best annual revenues of $588 million in 2022, according to full-year financial results posted by the team’s owners, Liberty Media, on Wednesday. The revenues surpass previous record totals of $568 million, generated in 2021 when the Braves won the World Series.

Yes, college football is popular here. And yes, the Braves, Hawks, and MLS attendance is also currently strong. So again, you're wrong.

 

[DuklaNation]

Right, and football is a different animal because it's 8 home games and not 41 to 81



By definition, no sports team can be self-sufficient. They need an opponent to play.

The rest of the league is HALF the product being sold. And that's what the revenue sharing is: Their cut for showing up so you can sell a home game.

It's just easier to pool that money and divide it evenly once a year than for each team pay an entire staff in accounting to do the math game-by-game, process all the 1400+ checks or transfers going in and out over the whole league all season long.

Self sufficient= not taking money from other teams to cover their cash flow shortfalls. This isn't complicated, so don't try,

 

[DuklaNation]

You just keep posting opinions without any backup. Your opinions are wrong, and they've been proven wrong with every post.

Where are you getting your revenue stats? Only hockey revenue news I see is the court docs stating that the Spirit Group lost a total of $150 million (including team value) in the final 6 years of owning the team. This proves that it was an ownership problem. I need to check, but I think the court shot that down, anyway.

The Braves are public which mean you can get their reported revenue. for 2022:



Yes, college football is popular here. And yes, the Braves, Hawks, and MLS attendance is also currently strong. So again, you're wrong.

Neither do any of you. Its not my job to convince any of you of the business realities here. I'm just giving my opinion. Honestly its a complete waste of time.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Neither do any of you.

I've included facts backing the opinions in all of my posts. You've not done that once.

I'm just giving my opinion. Honestly its a complete waste of time.

Holy crap, we agree on something!!

 

[DuklaNation]

I've included facts backing the opinions in all of my posts. You've not done that once.



Holy crap, we agree on something!!

You completely ignored the facts I presented, so its a waste of time. The fact it failed before, recently, suggests you're just biased. Why someone would be pushing this on an online forum is just strange.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

You completely ignored the facts I presented, so its a waste of time. The fact it failed before, recently, suggests you're just biased. Why someone would be pushing this on an online forum is just strange.

Shows your ignorance in skipping discussions and facts about what has changed and why a business/sports owner would consider putting an NHL team here. Nobody is debating that Atlanta has lost a franchise. You're just deciding to post random opinions with no backing.

And you keep saying that posting in this online forum is a "waste of time" and strange, but here you are, in this forum, having the same discussion...LOL.

 

[tucker3434]

You completely ignored the facts I presented, so its a waste of time. The fact it failed before, recently, suggests you're just biased. Why someone would be pushing this on an online forum is just strange.

You haven’t presented anything. Atlanta 2.0 failed because they didn’t have a place to play. That’s a nearly impossible obstacle for anyone to overcome. Few markets have a spare NHL caliber arena waiting for a tenant. But Atlanta is in the process of building one right now.

 

[Roadrage]

You haven’t presented anything. Atlanta 2.0 failed because they didn’t have a place to play. That’s a nearly impossible obstacle for anyone to overcome. Few markets have a spare NHL caliber arena waiting for a tenant. But Atlanta is in the process of building one right now.

If you build it, they will come...except for Quebec but that's another story.

 

[tucker3434]

If you build it, they will come...except for Quebec but that's another story.

Like Atlanta, if their arena had come along earlier, they might not have lost their team to begin with.

QC has a unique set of hurdles to get back into the NHL. I’m not sure the owners will ever been too thrilled to do it via expansion.

 

[joelef]

Like Atlanta, if their arena had come along earlier, they might not have lost their team to begin with.

QC has a unique set of hurdles to get back into the NHL. I’m not sure the owners will ever been too thrilled to do it via expansion.

the ownership didn’t want to pay the billion dollar expansion fee . That’s the jist of it.

 

[aqib]

Thats the point. Put a team there so you can get at least good chunk of them to care.

How many cities in the so called traditional US markets do you think will care about NHL if they did not have a team?


Build a good product. Win over fans. And good chunk of them will remain loyal fans for the lean times. Flyers drew shit until they started winning, And look where they are now? Anyone saying Philadelphia should not have a team?

By that logic only people in 30 cities would watch the NFL. There are Premier League bars in cities across North America that don't even have MLS squads.

If you look at the markets that everyone keeps throwing around:

1) Utah - has minor league hockey, high school, and amateur programs
2) Portland - Supports WHL hockey. The hang up is ownership because the Trailblazers are in limbo with Allen's estate
3) Houston - history of supporting minor hockey. Hardcore sports town
4) QC - has an arena and they love hockey
5) Hamilton - has an arena (probably needs another renovation) and they love hockey

Only one of those has had an NHL team in the last 50 years and only lost it because of an old arena. So with all those options why would you pick logically pick Atlanta

 

[tucker3434]

By that logic only people in 30 cities would watch the NFL. There are Premier League bars in cities across North America that don't even have MLS squads.

If you look at the markets that everyone keeps throwing around:

1) Utah - has minor league hockey, high school, and amateur programs
2) Portland - Supports WHL hockey. The hang up is ownership because the Trailblazers are in limbo with Allen's estate
3) Houston - history of supporting minor hockey. Hardcore sports town
4) QC - has an arena and they love hockey
5) Hamilton - has an arena (probably needs another renovation) and they love hockey

Only one of those has had an NHL team in the last 50 years and only lost it because of an old arena. So with all those options why would you pick logically pick Atlanta

Houston is next on the list for expansion. If they want a team, they’re going to get it. Atlanta is going to be 2nd on the list. Hamilton has Toronto standing in their way. Atlanta is bigger and has more corporate money than the other 3 combined.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

So with all those options why would you pick logically pick Atlanta

Atlanta has minor league hockey and is sports crazed, just like those you mentioned. It's also the size of like 6 or 7 QC's, has been growing annually for the last 30 years (unlike some of the markets you mentioned), and has massive corporate money (more than most of the markets you mentioned).

That's why.

Not sure why you asked though. You're a regular in the BoH forum. You knew all that.

 

[WeaponOfChoice]

5) Hamilton - has an arena (probably needs another renovation) and they love hockey

their arena is getting a reno early next year.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

By that logic only people in 30 cities would watch the NFL. There are Premier League bars in cities across North America that don't even have MLS squads.

If you look at the markets that everyone keeps throwing around:

1) Utah - has minor league hockey, high school, and amateur programs
2) Portland - Supports WHL hockey. The hang up is ownership because the Trailblazers are in limbo with Allen's estate
3) Houston - history of supporting minor hockey. Hardcore sports town
4) QC - has an arena and they love hockey
5) Hamilton - has an arena (probably needs another renovation) and they love hockey

Only one of those has had an NHL team in the last 50 years and only lost it because of an old arena. So with all those options why would you pick logically pick Atlanta

Well NHL isn't NFL is it? Almost literally apples and oranges there.

Well lets see. Utah has no arena. And its a small market. Portland is also small. QC? I think its clear NHL does not want to be there for one reason or another. Hamilton has to contend with Leafs and Sabres not wanting a team there even if we assume other 30 owners are fine with it.

Past failures once again, I have to keep repeating this, does not indicate future failure. DC lost MLB twice before they got a team back.

 

[adsfan]

Google says Alpharetta is 35 minute drive from Mercedes-Benz. It’s very oddly shaped, Alpharetta is still in Fulton County.

Also, Alpharetta is fun to say.

I have driven in Atlanta traffic.

Once, it was 7 stopped lanes on my side of I-75. That was in early May of 2022.

Current conditions (6:35 PM ET) on I-75 North range from 9 mph at Pine St all the way up to 20 mph at Williams/10 th Street. That could take you 1.5 to 2.5 hours to go the 25 miles from Downtown to the arena instead of 30 to 35 minutes.

 

[GKJ]

I have driven in Atlanta traffic.

Once, it was 7 stopped lanes on my side of I-75. That was in early May of 2022.

Current conditions (6:35 PM ET) on I-75 North range from 9 mph at Pine St all the way up to 20 mph at Williams/10 th Street. That could take you 1.5 to 2.5 hours to go the 25 miles from Downtown to the arena instead of 30 to 35 minutes.

I’ve never been, but I’ve always heard that about Atlanta metro

 

[aqib]

Atlanta has minor league hockey and is sports crazed, just like those you mentioned. It's also the size of like 6 or 7 QC's, has been growing annually for the last 30 years (unlike some of the markets you mentioned), and has massive corporate money (more than most of the markets you mentioned).

That's why.

Not sure why you asked though. You're a regular in the BoH forum. You knew all that.

Because this correlation between market size and fan support has repeatedly proven to not be the case especially with Southern hockey markets.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Because this correlation between market size and fan support has repeatedly proven to not be the case especially with Southern hockey markets.

Few things... As you know, fan support ebbs and flows not matter the market size or region as mentioned (see Boston, Pittsburgh, DC, Chicago, NYI, and currently the Bay Area and Winnipeg)

Second, I'd argue (basing this solely on attendance) that small markets are a bigger risk to hockey despite love for the sport (see Winnipeg, Quebec, Edmonton, and Hartford).

Finally, for a business owner and the league, I would think one of the biggest traits you're looking for in a market is growth. Population and corporate support. Checks those boxes. As long as there is a willing, rich owner (I'm skeptical on this one), then the sky's the limit.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Because this correlation between market size and fan support has repeatedly proven to not be the case especially with Southern hockey markets.

Market size matters. Why do you think NY an area has 3 teams? I don’t get how people think it doesn’t matter. It’s wild.

 

[varsaku]

Houston is next on the list for expansion. If they want a team, they’re going to get it. Atlanta is going to be 2nd on the list. Hamilton has Toronto standing in their way. Atlanta is bigger and has more corporate money than the other 3 combined.

I think the NHL wants houston more than Fertitta wants an NHL team. I don't see it happening unless he can get a relocation team on the cheap.

 

[RoyalAir]

I have driven in Atlanta traffic.

Once, it was 7 stopped lanes on my side of I-75. That was in early May of 2022.

Current conditions (6:35 PM ET) on I-75 North range from 9 mph at Pine St all the way up to 20 mph at Williams/10 th Street. That could take you 1.5 to 2.5 hours to go the 25 miles from Downtown to the arena instead of 30 to 35 minutes.

The route to go to Alpharetta isn't I-75 - that's what you would take to get to Braves games at SunTrust.

The proposed Thrashers site is up GA 400, which is, for all intents ans purposes, an eight-lane interstate. Important to note: this location is smack in the middle of where the majority of Thrashers STH live, and is central to the amateur hockey community that has grown since leaving.

Realistically, the majority of fans wouldn't be traveling from downtown ATL, they'd be coming from Alpharetta, Cumming, Buford, and other suburbs using surface streets.

Not entirely sure it helps traffic in any discernible way, but it is central to the demographic that is most likely to support it. For the most part, the wealthy Atlanta suburbs are within 10-15 miles of this location. Peachtree City being a notable exception.

 

[aqib]

Market size matters. Why do you think NY an area has 3 teams? I don’t get how people think it doesn’t matter. It’s wild.

New York likes hockey. New York also doesn't have college sports in any meaningful way. St Johns basketball hasn't been relevant in decades. While you have UCONN basketball but its not really drawing away from NYC teams. There is nothing on par with SEC football

 

[These Are The Days]

Jesus Christ Atlanta has a lot of money laying around. I swear they've built like 6 stadiums/arenas and ballparks since 1990 and the Rays could barely manage to get done the one they're building now and the Bucs had to threaten relocation half a bazillion times.

 

[aqib]

Few things... As you know, fan support ebbs and flows not matter the market size or region as mentioned (see Boston, Pittsburgh, DC, Chicago, NYI, and currently the Bay Area and Winnipeg)

Second, I'd argue (basing this solely on attendance) that small markets are a bigger risk to hockey despite love for the sport (see Winnipeg, Quebec, Edmonton, and Hartford).

Finally, for a business owner and the league, I would think one of the biggest traits you're looking for in a market is growth. Population and corporate support. Checks those boxes. As long as there is a willing, rich owner (I'm skeptical on this one), then the sky's the limit.

Edmonton has had rock solid support for almost 45 years, aside from a 4 year dip after Pocklington sold off the dynasty team. The Oilers had to sell 13K season tickets every year to keep their subsidy that was keeping the team afloat. This is was during the era of no salary cap where the best the team could hope for was being the 7th or 8th seed and maybe getting past the first round once every 2-3 years.

The Thrashers attendance dropped by 2K per game from year 1 to year 2. That's before ASG came in etc.

Corporate support only happens if there is an underlying support for the team. A corporation is only buying seats if they can be used as a giveaway to customers and staff. They are only buying sponsorships to gain exposure which only happens if there are eyes on the game. Atlanta hasn't shown that exists. The idea that "hey there are 5 million people in Atlanta, some of them must like hockey" just doesn't hold water.

As far as the other markets go, if given the choice between buying a team in Hamilton and one in Atlanta, any business man unless they were biased would pick Hamilton 100% of the time. When Balsillie tired to move the Predators they got 14K season ticket deposits in 2 days. Look at how fast Winnipeg snapped up 13K season tickets.