Blue Jays Discussion: Post Non-Waiver Trade Deadline Edition

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phillipmike

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Finally liking some of these minor moves that makes sense. First Refsynder and Rowley and now Anderson and Mayza. Now just need to DFA Barney and get someone else up and i will be very happy. Wouldn't mind Jansen either if Martin is out awhile.
 

Bad News Benning

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Finally liking some of these minor moves that makes sense. First Refsynder and Rowley and now Anderson and Mayza. Now just need to DFA Barney and get someone else up and i will be very happy. Wouldn't mind Jansen either if Martin is out awhile.
The nice thing is that a lot of positions have set such a low bar that most of young players we call up should actually improve the team. Honestly Jansen could hit like total ass (doubt it because of his elite plate discipline and contact ability)but still be an improvement on our non Martin catchers.

Players that would be upgrades on the 25 man roster right now IMO:

Alford
Jansen
Ramirez (Carlos)

Even guys like fields, smith, borucki, etc might offer more than some of the dead weight on the current roster.
 
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deletethis

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Well, he got to play in the majors and struck out Judge. There's a story to tell the grand kids. (assuming Trump + Global warming doesn't kill us all).

Have you ever researched the carbon footprint of professional sports? Ever thought that you're a huge hypocrite supporting pro sports?
 

Discoverer

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The nice thing is that a lot of positions have set such a low bar that most of young players we call up should actually improve the team. Honestly Jansen could hit like total ass (doubt it because of his elite plate discipline and contact ability)but still be an improvement on our non Martin catchers.

Players that would be upgrades on the 25 man roster right now IMO:

Alford
Jansen
Ramirez (Carlos)

Even guys like fields, smith, borucki, etc might offer more than some of the dead weight on the current roster.

The issue with the outfield is that the two guys least likely to lose their spots are the two who probably should. Zeke and Pearce have been excellent. I would love to see Alford come up and take some playing time away from Pillar and Bautista to let them figure things out, but I don't know how likely that is.
 

phillipmike

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That's the thing... I would love to see someone like Alford, Hernandez or even Ramirez up to see what they can do but with 5 OF it makes it tough. Its not something that would happen but i would prefer we DFA Barney and move Pearce to 2B. Run with Aoki/Carrera in LF and potentially add one of those young OFs. Maybe someone like Gurriel who can play the OF and middle infield.

We see it in spurts and it might be just a streak but i would wait on Bautista. In his last 14 days or 56 PAs he has a wRC+ of 118 with a BABIP of .161 and a BB:K of 0.8. His OBP is .339... With a 2015-2016 Donaldson bat it looks like pitchers are going at Bautista because they dont want to risk it with JD coming up... Bautista is getting better pitches to hit... well at least that's my theory.
 

Mach85

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Have you ever researched the carbon footprint of professional sports? Ever thought that you're a huge hypocrite supporting pro sports?

Where did he make a value statement? Pointing out the threat =/= saying he's above contributing. It's pretty indisputable that global warming is a serious threat to our future, whether or not Kurtz or any of us in this thread are doing anything to reduce our carbon footprints. Besides, maybe Kurtz is posting from his solar-powered home and takes public transportation, all to offset his undying love of the Jays. Give the guy a break.
 

phillipmike

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I said it last year the league got lucky but the MLB might be regretting not having a tiebreaker in place this year. Imagine if you have 4+ teams tied for 2 wildcard spots... It is very possible we might have 3+ teams tied for a wildcard spot.

FG projects that 2nd wildcard is now expected to be at 82 wins. They project the Jays to finish the season with 80 wins. 25-19 gets the Jays to 82 wins.
 

Discoverer

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The Jays have a top 10 catcher in the league who's playing at a ~3 fWAR pace and has played in almost 70% of the team's games, and they've managed to be a negative WAR team at the position overall.

I'm not even mad. That's amazing.
 

Discoverer

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I said it last year the league got lucky but the MLB might be regretting not having a tiebreaker in place this year. Imagine if you have 4+ teams tied for 2 wildcard spots... It is very possible we might have 3+ teams tied for a wildcard spot.

FG projects that 2nd wildcard is now expected to be at 82 wins. They project the Jays to finish the season with 80 wins. 25-19 gets the Jays to 82 wins.

You mean they should have specific days set aside for tie-breaker games? Because they do have a pretty intricate tie-breaker system in place.
 

phillipmike

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The Jays have a top 10 catcher in the league who's playing at a ~3 fWAR pace and has played in almost 70% of the team's games, and they've managed to be a negative WAR team at the position overall.

I'm not even mad. That's amazing.

For lack of a better word its impressive how bad our catchers not named Martin have performed.

You mean they should have specific days set aside for tie-breaker games? Because they do have a pretty intricate tie-breaker system in place.

Unless i am reading it wrong they have an intricate tie-breaker for home field advantage but not for the actually playoff spot like other sports - meaning there arent ever a 83rd game in the NHL or NBA or a 17th in the NFL to determine who gets a playoff spot.

If records are identical then there is potential for a 163rd game plus even more in the majors.

Had to do a search to refresh my memory;

Should the Jays and Orioles tie, Toronto owns the tiebreaker and would host the American League Wild Card Game on Tuesday night at Rogers Centre.

But here’s where it gets complicated.

Should the Tigers win on Sunday against the Braves in Atlanta, and at least one of Baltimore or Toronto loses on Sunday, then Detroit will have to play on Monday at 1 p.m. ET, hosting the American League Central champion Indians to make up their rainout from Thursday.

That game would also be played Monday if it affects Cleveland’s potential home field advantage in the ALDS against the Boston Red Sox. The Indians (93-67) lead the Red Sox (93-68) by a half-game entering play on Sunday, and Boston owns the tiebreaker between the two teams. Should the Indians win and Red Sox lose on Sunday, and if Detroit is eliminated, the Monday game wouldn’t need to be played.

What the Tigers need is to beat Atlanta on Sunday and hope that at least one of Baltimore or Toronto loses. Then the Tigers need to beat the Indians on Monday to force chaos.

Detroit would be on the road for any one-game playoff with Baltimore or Toronto.

If there is a three-team tie between the Blue Jays, Orioles and Tigers for two Wild Card spots, the Tigers and Jays would battle Tuesday in Toronto for the top Wild Card spot, with the loser headed to play the Orioles on Wednesday for the second Wild Card spot. The Orioles had the option of choosing to play two road games — needing to win one to advance to the Wild Card Game — but instead chose to play once at home, per Bob Nightengale of USA Today Sports and confirmed by Jon Morosi of MLB.com.

Such a scenario would push the AL Wild Card Game to Thursday, two days after it was originally scheduled, and the same day the ALDS was supposed to start.

But let’s get through Sunday first and see where we are at.

Another factor adding to the fun on Sunday is that all 15 games are scheduled for 3 p.m. ET, so just about every important game will be ending around the same time.

https://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2016/10/2/13134638/2016-mlb-playoffs-tiebreakers-wild-card-standings

And that was potentially just 3 teams in Toronto, Baltimore and Detroit. 2nd Wildcard spot took 89 wins. That last weekend could have been a disaster imo.

At this point last year there were only 2 teams within 3.5 games of the 2nd WC spot (Seattle and Detriot). Yankees and the Astros were 4.5 GB and the rest are 8+ GB.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/?month=8&day=15&year=2016

This year there are 7 teams 3.5 GB within the 2nd wildcard spot and it might only take 82-85 wins to get in - the lower then the worse from the leagues perspective for many reasons. I can see a lot more teams than 3 being tied for the last wildcard spot and potentially the 1st WC spot during the last weekend of the regular season. That would be a disaster leading to the AL playoffs potentially starting 3-4 days later and even later if they are outdoor games and it rains.
 
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deletethis

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Where did he make a value statement? Pointing out the threat =/= saying he's above contributing. It's pretty indisputable that global warming is a serious threat to our future, whether or not Kurtz or any of us in this thread are doing anything to reduce our carbon footprints. Besides, maybe Kurtz is posting from his solar-powered home and takes public transportation, all to offset his undying love of the Jays. Give the guy a break.

It was designed to get brownie points.

Speaking of solar-powered homes, according to a recent report there's a home in Tennessee that has 33 solar panels providing 12,000 KW/hr of electricity. That's enough to power a medium Toronto suburban house (at least 1 1/2 of my house). Only problem is that this home consumes 17 times this electricity. Its occupant owns a fleet of SUVs, flies privately and owns several other properties.
 

SeaOfBlue

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Aug 1, 2013
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Have you ever researched the carbon footprint of professional sports? Ever thought that you're a huge hypocrite supporting pro sports?

Honestly probably not even on the radar in terms of largest producers. All the major sports could probably optimize their carbon footprint and it would not even make the slightest of differences.

Pretty much anyone who does anything in this world would be hypocritical if they were against global warming. As long as you make an effort, the scaling would go a long way. Problem is not many people would even care enough so that scaling will never be large enough.
 

Discoverer

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Unless i am reading it wrong they have an intricate tie-breaker for home field advantage but not for the actually playoff spot like other sports - meaning there arent ever a 83rd game in the NHL or NBA or a 17th in the NFL.

If records are identical then there is potential for a 163rd game plus even more.

Had to do a search to refresh my memory;



https://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2016/10/2/13134638/2016-mlb-playoffs-tiebreakers-wild-card-standings

And that was potentially just 3 teams in Toronto, Baltimore and Detroit. 2nd Wildcard spot took 89 wins. That last weekend could have been a disaster imo.

At this point last year there were only 2 teams within 3.5 games of the 2nd WC spot (Seattle and Detriot). Yankees and the Astros were 4.5 GB and the rest are 8+ GB.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/?month=8&day=15&year=2016

This year there are 7 teams 3.5 GB within the 2nd wildcard spot and it might only take 82-85 wins to get in - the lower then the worse from the leagues perspective for many reasons. I can see a lot more teams than 3 being tied for the last wildcard spot and potentially the 1st WC spot during the last weekend of the regular season. That would be a disaster leading to the AL playoffs potentially starting 3-4 days later and even later if they are outdoor games and it rains.

Ah ok, I see what you mean. The tie-breakers in other sports are a series of stats based on what happened during the season. I much prefer the way they do it in baseball, where the tie-breaker is to actually play a game.

Elimination games are the best. They're great for baseball and well worth pushing the start of the first round back a couple days. Even in a scenario where there's a four-way tie for one Wild Card spot, they would only have to add two days to the schedule.

Day 1
Team A and Team B play each other. Winner moves on. Loser is out.
Team C and Team D play each other. Winner moves on. Loser is out.

Day 2
Winning teams play each other. Winner gets the second Wild Card spot. Loser is out.

Day 3
Wild Card game.

That would be amazing. I want to see a four-way tie every year and I never want to see a tie-breaker scenario that doesn't involve playing games.
 

Kurtz

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Jul 17, 2005
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Have you ever researched the carbon footprint of professional sports? Ever thought that you're a huge hypocrite supporting pro sports?

That would only hold true if you presume that I'm anti global-warming. Or that I support pro sports.



...at the same time, have you ever considered the carbon footprint of a forum poster who makes 3.5K posts in about 2.5 years on this forum? I'm afraid that you're doing a huge disservice to our planet by posting here.
 
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Woodman19

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Jun 14, 2008
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Who brings global warming into a sports discussion?

While using a device made of synthetic materials, powered by electricity and probably eating processed food sprouting off about it. Go tackle the biggest issue with the largest global warming contributor and tackle the explosive overpopulation and leave politics out of the Jays thread.
 

Mach85

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Mar 14, 2013
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It was designed to get brownie points.

Speaking of solar-powered homes, according to a recent report there's a home in Tennessee that has 33 solar panels providing 12,000 KW/hr of electricity. That's enough to power a medium Toronto suburban house (at least 1 1/2 of my house). Only problem is that this home consumes 17 times this electricity. Its occupant owns a fleet of SUVs, flies privately and owns several other properties.

Or he's just making a bit of a joke. Lighten up.
 

Kurtz

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Jul 17, 2005
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Who brings global warming into a sports discussion?

While using a device made of synthetic materials, powered by electricity and probably eating processed food sprouting off about it. Go tackle the biggest issue with the largest global warming contributor and tackle the explosive overpopulation and leave politics out of the Jays thread.

That's right! Preach, brother!

angry_trump_0.jpg
 

hoglund

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phillipmike

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Ah ok, I see what you mean. The tie-breakers in other sports are a series of stats based on what happened during the season. I much prefer the way they do it in baseball, where the tie-breaker is to actually play a game.

Elimination games are the best. They're great for baseball and well worth pushing the start of the first round back a couple days. Even in a scenario where there's a four-way tie for one Wild Card spot, they would only have to add two days to the schedule.

Day 1
Team A and Team B play each other. Winner moves on. Loser is out.
Team C and Team D play each other. Winner moves on. Loser is out.

Day 2
Winning teams play each other. Winner gets the second Wild Card spot. Loser is out.

Day 3
Wild Card game.

That would be amazing. I want to see a four-way tie every year and I never want to see a tie-breaker scenario that doesn't involve playing games.

Difference of opinion i guess. It works out perfectly if you have 2-4 teams tied but if you have 5 then it isnt just 2 extra days. Plus what happens if you have a 5 way tie for the 1st and 2nd wildcard spots - you are looking at a scenario of more than 2 extra days.... where teams have to play for the 1st WC spot then the 2nd. Then what happens if it rains?

What happens to the rest of the playoffs? Does the NL move forward as scheduled or do they wait for everything to be settled? Usually they wait for one round to be settled and they move forward. Either way there is a disadvantage to some team.

You risk snow if the playoffs are delayed by more than a few days going into November. Or if the league is forced to play a game then you are looking at playing in potentially slick conditions which isnt ideal for player safety (Harper's injury). And/or long delays where games are going after midnight - not all that great for ratings or fans who bought tickets (one of the reasons why i think retractable roofs should be mandatory for any new stadiums but i know a lot of people would disagree with this).

I think that would be a disaster. The season is too long - i dont complain as the Rogers centre has a dome but if it gets delayed elsewhere then you are looking at pushing an already long season potentially further into November.

I just dont see a lot of value in elimination games for playoff spots when you have better and the more meaningful (of actually) playoff games coming up. If you want exciting baseball then you have playoff baseball coming. Playoff games vs. games to determine who gets in the playoffs... i know which ones i like/are more important.

This wasnt an issue in years past but the MLB has made a bigger effort with the IFA and luxury tax penalties and with players getting 30-40M salaries it really evens things out. Parity has caused this which is good (parity is great for the game but not under the current tie break system) but can be a potential disaster depending who you asked if you have a multiple team tied at the end of the season.

I know i might sound like a tinfoil conspirator but these are potentially real issues that the game might face at the end of this season that they havent seen before. A pre-wildcard tiebreaker has only happened 4 times in MLB history (2 out of the 4 times the game was played before October which lessen my concern) and only once since the 2nd wildcard spot was introduced. This might be a problem every year due to recent efforts to enhance parity.

-------

I just like the simple NHL/NBA/NFL format - you know who is in on the last day of the season. Gives teams time to prepare and rest - you have a well rest playoff team vs another well rested playoff team.

I think that is best for competition.
 

go_leafs_go02

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Well only 32K on a Monday night against the Rays. Lowest attendance all year has been 29,281, and assuming most of those were STH, the walkup crowd is dropped.

Even against the Pirates, the jays only got 36K on the Friday and 43K on the Sunday. Weekend games didn't sell-out and the bandwagon is dropping.

However, win a few games in a row, jump a few spots in the wild card standings, and who knows what will happen.

Last night was the first game in a long time where sections in the 200 level were practically empty.

The bandwagon will empty out fast if the Jays end up 5th in the AL East
 

hoglund

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Well only 32K on a Monday night against the Rays. Lowest attendance all year has been 29,281, and assuming most of those were STH, the walkup crowd is dropped.

Even against the Pirates, the jays only got 36K on the Friday and 43K on the Sunday. Weekend games didn't sell-out and the bandwagon is dropping.

However, win a few games in a row, jump a few spots in the wild card standings, and who knows what will happen.

Last night was the first game in a long time where sections in the 200 level were practically empty.

The bandwagon will empty out fast if the Jays end up 5th in the AL East

It was a Monday night, most are working the next day and Tampa Bay isn't a really exciting team. Also the Jays were starting a no namer who got killed last time against the Yankees.
 
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