Blue Jays Discussion: Post Non-Waiver Trade Deadline Edition

[zeke]

2015: 9.1bb% (1st), 340obp (1st)
2016: 10.1bb% (1st), 330obp (3rd)

gril'n'rip!!

 

[deletethis]

2015: 9.1bb% (1st), 340obp (1st)
2016: 10.1bb% (1st), 330obp (3rd)

gril'n'rip!!

2017: 26th runs scored, 20th in obp

 

[zeke]

yup.

so the complaint should be that for the first time we finally have a bad obp team.

 

[deletethis]

yup.

so the complaint should be that for the first time we finally have a bad obp team.

No doubt that guy mischaracterized previous years' teams.

 

[sabresEH]

Regular reminder that "small ball" is mostly a bad idea and that the 2015 team dominated in every aspect of hitting.

Except when we had a runner on third with no outs

 

[Eyedea]

Except when we had a runner on third with no outs

Unfortunately the ump dominated that inning

 

[Suntouchable13]

Let's say they go 15-7 in the next 22 games. That would be 70-68 overall. Where would that put them in the wild card race? Currently, the second wild card team is only 1 game above .500. Obviously, the problem is at least some other team in that race can go on a similar run and that would put them still ahead of the Jays. But I still keep believing. You never know what can happen.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Yep. He's literally their fifth option as a middle infielder, but he has to play sometimes when the #1 and 2 guys are out. He has a hell of a lot more upside than Barney and Goins, though, and he's under cheap control going forward, so it makes sense to play him somewhat regularly the rest of the year.

Are you freaking serious? The guy has a slugging % in the low 200s and you're saying that he has higher upside than Barney and Goins? That's laughable. At least those guys can have a slugging % in the 300s and can hit a homer once in a blue moon. The guy is not major league caliber. The Yankees would rather have Torreyes over him. That tells you all you need to know.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

Bryce Harper with a brutal leg injury, sucks for the Nats

And my fantasy ball team. Warm DL spot for he and Syndergaard

 

[The Nemesis]

Others can speak for themselves but it's my impression that when someone says "small ball" they aren't merely talking about sacrifice plays, they are talking about getting on base in whatever way to put pressure on opposition pitching staffs and defense.

I never said anyone was 'merely' talking about sacrifice plays. But from where I sit, when you can manage to pin down the usually incredibly fungible, malleable definition of what small ball is, that definition tends to include moving runners over and sacrificing. You yourself included the term "manufacturing runs" in your previous post on the topic, which almost certainly includes a willingness to move the runners over, which is almost always code for bunts and sac hits.

I would argue that casting the widest net on the definition, small ball proponents tend to push the following:

1) all-field contact hitting
2) sacrifice plays
3) steals
4) pressure plays like hit & runs or squeeze plays

A lot of the time when people talk about small ball, they tend to disparage walks and obp because that often comes from patient, Bautista-esque power hitters who control the strike zone and get a walk because they out-wait the pitcher. And as noted, for the last two years the Jays had been one of the most patient teams in baseball. The issue this year is that the Jays have simply struggled to hit, not any particular failing with small ball strategies. Because the Jays use hit & run plays more often than you'd expect for a team that's not built for speed and as I noted they do sit high in the AL in sacrifice plays, which means they're willing to move runners over. The issue has been that unless the guy's name is Justin Smoak, every hitter in the lineup has been in a funk for a good chunk of the season, and injuries have led to long-term runs for substandard hitters like Barney and Goins

 

[zeke]

Let's say they go 15-7 in the next 22 games. That would be 70-68 overall. Where would that put them in the wild card race? Currently, the second wild card team is only 1 game above .500. Obviously, the problem is at least some other team in that race can go on a similar run and that would put them still ahead of the Jays. But I still keep believing. You never know what can happen.

one of these teams is gonna get hot.

might as well be us.

 

[Suntouchable13]

one of these teams is gonna get hot.

might as well be us.

Other teams can get hot too. Are you saying all those teams will be .500 during the next 22 games or so? I doubt it.

 

[zeke]

um isn't that what i said?

 

[habamillions]

Let's say they go 15-7 in the next 22 games. That would be 70-68 overall. Where would that put them in the wild card race? Currently, the second wild card team is only 1 game above .500. Obviously, the problem is at least some other team in that race can go on a similar run and that would put them still ahead of the Jays. But I still keep believing. You never know what can happen.

Yup. Never over until its over. Only issue for me is the starting pitching. Hard to get on an extended winning streak when you dont know who is starting every 5th day.

 

[Suntouchable13]

um isn't that what i said?

I meant that we're not going to be the only team to get hot.

 

[TF97]

If this team does end up going 15-7 in the next 22, I would like to see them pick up some cheap rentals that can help the team but not empty the farm. Some examples would be Daniel Nava, Jed Lowrie, Tyler Clippard, Asdrubal Cabrera, Miguel Gonzalez, etc.

 

[Eyedea]

Are you freaking serious? The guy has a slugging % in the low 200s and you're saying that he has higher upside than Barney and Goins? That's laughable. At least those guys can have a slugging % in the 300s and can hit a homer once in a blue moon. The guy is not major league caliber. The Yankees would rather have Torreyes over him. That tells you all you need to know.

Have you seen Goins or Barney play? Their career high performances were like 85 wRC+ at the ages of 27 and 30. I also noticed you made a recent assumption suggesting Refsnyder is not even AAA calibre, which is well far off from the truth. This was a guy that Yankees fans lauded because he was hitting at every level in the minors. Projections heavily favour Refsnyder as a superior run producer compared to Goins and Barney, but it's hard to give off a great impression with 27 scattered plate appearances for a brand new organization.

 

[canucksfan]

Olivares got promoted to Dunedin from Lansing.

 

[zeke]

if he hits at dunedin he's legit on the map for me.

 

[zeke]

I meant that we're not going to be the only team to get hot.

point being that our competition all need to get hot to make it as well

 

[Bad News Benning]

Greene is terrible. 12 hits 5 walks and 9 runs in 4 innings of work.

Move him to the pen already. Dude has no future as a starter.

 

[Discoverer]

Are you freaking serious? The guy has a slugging % in the low 200s and you're saying that he has higher upside than Barney and Goins? That's laughable. At least those guys can have a slugging % in the 300s and can hit a homer once in a blue moon. The guy is not major league caliber. The Yankees would rather have Torreyes over him. That tells you all you need to know.

Which is better?

A) .223/.271/.328, 60 wRC+
B) .239/.314/.325, 72 wRC+
C) .246/.295/.338, 71 wRC+

 

[theaub]

They all suck and one of them isn't a middle infielder.

 

[Discoverer]

They all suck and one of them isn't a middle infielder.

Hard to disagree with that.

Luckily, one of them is 26 with a ton of offensive succwas at AAA and the others are 29 and 31 and have always been bad hitters at every level of the minors... hence the "upside" comment.

 

[canucksfan]

Greene is terrible. 12 hits 5 walks and 9 runs in 4 innings of work.

Move him to the pen already. Dude has no future as a starter.

He's only 22.