Blue Jays Discussion: Post Non-Waiver Trade Deadline Edition

[ToneDog]

Off topic to your point but i hate when players complain about FOs not adding at the deadline especially leaders like Keuchel and when Bautista did it at the 2014 deadline. Basically you are telling everyone in the world including your teammates that you dont think your team is good enough. I get that guys are competitors and that they want better players on your team but it is really a punch in the gut to the other guys on the team who would have been replaced. If you are upset then keep it internally and go to management not the media. Teams who are active at the deadline doesnt mean squat to winning championships.

Maybe management is trying to tell you something - the team is good enough as is they think you can win as is. That seems like an endorsement... This is more true for the 2017 Astros than the 2014 Jays because the Astros have been one of the best teams in the league and the best in the AL.

Put things in perspective... The Astros could have used 1-2 upgrades. Starting pitching and a shutdown lefty reliever. The two best starters came from their division in Gray and Darvish - inter-division trades dont happen often especially players of that magnitude. The next player they were in on was Britton, someone the O's should have traded but Baltimore's owner is an idiot and also keeping in mind the O's are in a WC race of their own - it would have taken a huge offer to get Britton who is coming off 2 DL stints pertaining to his elbow. Might have been smart to stay away.

Houston was right to do what they did. They made their additions last season and in the off-season in Reddick, Beltran. McCann, Aoki, Morton and Gurriel... one of the more active teams in the off-season.

Astros are literally the best offensive team in the last 10 years by 10%. Remember our 2015 offense? The Astros are better by 13% and Correra and Springer are hurt.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=17,d

They are 9th in the rotation and 6th in relievers - and their 2 best starters Keuchel and McCullers missed time.

Houston just got swept by the White Sox. Keuchel should keep his mouth shut - he was awful against the worst team in the AL giving up 8 ERs in 4 innings then the Houston offense scored 1 run against an almost 5 ERA pitcher to lose the 2nd game. And then Giles blew a save in the 9th and they lost that 3rd game in extras to get swept.

Reddick has 3 hits in his last 23 PAs... instead of being "down in the dumps" after the lack of deadline moves you should play better. Plus Houston lost their last game because Reddick committed a throwing error that gave Garicia an extra base and the next batter hit a single which was the game winning run.

End of Rant

I think the problem is that Astros management tried to improve the team but wasn't willing to give up the required prospects.

Steve Phillips said:

The Astros players have complained that they didn’t make any moves other than Francisco Liriano at the deadline. Estrada would immediately become their No. 2 starter and possibly their ace if Dallas Keuchel doesn’t step it up. Estrada would also be the ace of the Angels’ starting staff.

If Estrada can be a #2 starter Shatkins should be able to land some quality prospects.

 

[phillipmike]

I think the problem is that Astros management tried to improve the team but wasn't willing to give up the required prospects.

Steve Phillips said:

The Astros players have complained that they didn’t make any moves other than Francisco Liriano at the deadline. Estrada would immediately become their No. 2 starter and possibly their ace if Dallas Keuchel doesn’t step it up. Estrada would also be the ace of the Angels’ starting staff.

If Estrada can be a #2 starter Shatkins should be able to land some quality prospects.

Doesnt seem like it is a concrete rumor.

2015-2016 Estrada might have been their #2 but not this season.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...e=0&filter=&players=1118,9434,4676,5401,14120

Estrada was coming off two bad months. He was a 5 ERA pitcher that couldnt get to the 6th inning in 8 of his last 10 starts - 9 ERA pitcher at the time.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statsd.asp...&type=0&gds=2017-06-01&gde=2017-07-26&season=.

Jays got the Astros #9 rated prospect for Liriano - i could only imagine what they were asking for if Houston came calling for Estrada. Would you give up a top 7 prospect for a player with this stat line in their 10 recent starts? Or better yet rely on that pitcher down the stretch and into the playoffs? I can see their skepticism.

Jays were probably trying to sell him like he was from 2015 to early 2017. Astros were trying to buy him at the price for the last 2 months.

If the Astros/fans werent happy with their 0.8 WAR pitcher in 82 innings with a 5.88 ERA i dont think they would be much happier with a 1.6 WAR pitcher in 114 innings pitcher with a 5.43 ERA.

Estrada from his last 3 starts look great (after the deadline). But at the time of the deadline he was bad and not much of an upgrade.

 

[ToneDog]

Doesnt seem like it is a concrete rumor.

2015-2016 Estrada might have been their #2 but not this season.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...e=0&filter=&players=1118,9434,4676,5401,14120

Estrada was coming off two bad months. He was a 5 ERA pitcher that couldnt get to the 6th inning in 8 of his last 10 starts - 9 ERA pitcher at the time.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statsd.asp...&type=0&gds=2017-06-01&gde=2017-07-26&season=.

Jays got the Astros #9 rated prospect for Liriano - i could only imagine what they were asking for if Houston came calling for Estrada. Would you give up a top 7 prospect for a player with this stat line in their 10 recent starts? Or better yet rely on that pitcher down the stretch and into the playoffs? I can see their skepticism.

Jays were probably trying to sell him like he was from 2015 to early 2017. Astros were trying to buy him at the price for the last 2 months.

If the Astros/fans werent happy with their 0.8 WAR pitcher in 82 innings with a 5.88 ERA i dont think they would be much happier with a 1.6 WAR pitcher in 114 innings pitcher with a 5.43 ERA.

Estrada from his last 3 starts look great (after the deadline). But at the time of the deadline he was bad and not much of an upgrade.

I hear you and hence why I would move him as fast as I could. If Shatkins can convince a desperate team that they are trading for the Estrada from the last three starts and not the pre TDL version, he should be able to get a much higher ranked prospect.

 

[phillipmike]

I hear you and hence why I would move him as fast as I could. If Shatkins can convince a desperate team that they are trading for the Estrada from the last three starts and not the pre TDL version, he should be able to get a much higher ranked prospect.

Still dont know if they are that desperate... Even with all that i still doubt we get in their top 5 prospects plus they could still have their reservations about Estrada... 3 starts may not erase 10 bad ones.

Leaves Colin Moran and Yordan Alvarez... unless we are looking for more longterm prospects.

Moran looked to be a career minor leaguer before the season and was outside of FG's top 21 for Houston. If the Jays think he can be a MLB player then he wouldnt be bad to target as he is blocked by Bregman and Moran is a former 10 pick.

Alvarez has more potential and is a better prospect though he is a 6'5 LHD 225 pound player... so he either sticks at 1B or becomes a bad fielding LFer.

David Paulino and Ramon Laureano are also interesting.. Highly rated pre-season but havent had strong years.

 

[canucksfan]

I wonder if they will call up Jansen if Martin is gone for a bit.

Another good day for him 2 for 2 with a walk.

 

[stickty111]

Warmoth has been terrific so far.

 

[canucksfan]

Warmoth has been terrific so far.

I wonder where he will start next year? Dunedin?

 

[canucksfan]

 

[The Nemesis]

 

[dredeye]

So we need to teach them to be pull hitters.

 

[TootooTrain]

Spray n Pray...you don't get rained out of the greatness.

 

[canucksfan]

 

[Suntouchable13]

Favourite moment from Chris Coghlan as a Jay:

 

[Muston Atthews]

Favourite moment from Chris Coghlan as a Jay:

What an underwhelming play call by buck

 

[Al14]

Favourite moment from Chris Coghlan as a Jay:

That was just a beauty of a move, leaping over the catcher like that.

 

[MS]

Favourite moment from Chris Coghlan as a Jay:

That might be the most jaw-dropping play in franchise history.

 

[The Nemesis]

I got Canadians tickets for tonight and Monday night.

Nate Pearson is scheduled to pitch tomorrow.

Potential upside: it's supposed to rain here tomorrow.

 

[Al14]

I got Canadians tickets for tonight and Monday night.

Nate Pearson is scheduled to pitch tomorrow.

Potential upside: it's supposed to rain here tomorrow.

Most importantly, enjoy the hot dogs! If they're any good, that is.

 

[Al14]

Oh darn, the Jays won this afternoon, and, I missed watching the game.

 

[phillipmike]

Hopefully Biagini is ready soon... i feel better with a rotation of Stroman, Happ, Estrada, Biagini and Rowley going down the stretch than what we have been trying. At least Biagini and Rowley might bring you some depth next season in the rotation.

Still have Osuna, Tepera, Barnes, Leone, Loup, Howell and Campos in the pen.

Outside chance Sanchez and Travis might be ready. Let's make these wildcard teams earn their spots.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Discoverer]

So is Refsnyder still the worst thing that ever happened to baseball or have we accepted that he's probably not as bad as he was in his first 20 plate appearances with the Jays?

 

[Woodman19]

So is Refsnyder still the worst thing that ever happened to baseball or have we accepted that he's probably not as bad as he was in his first 20 plate appearances with the Jays?

Let's try to focus on the negative here... We aren't allowed to be positive this year. Just lurk and appear when bad happens.

 

[TOGuy14]

So is Refsnyder still the worst thing that ever happened to baseball or have we accepted that he's probably not as bad as he was in his first 20 plate appearances with the Jays?

I don't understand.

Refsnyder has been awful at the plate and defensively for 9 games but we judged him too soon because he just had one good game?

 

[The Nemesis]

Samad Taylor, the middle infielder from the Joe smith trade is in the lineup tonight for the Canadians at 2nd base. I wonder what the other roster move was to accommodate.