Post Deadline Transactions and Signings

[TMLAM34]

Yep, I'd rather sign ROR and Acciari, then let the kids play rather than move them for another big F.

Knies - AM - Marner
Tavares - ROR - Jarnkrok
Bunting - Lafferty - Nylander
Steeves/UFA - Acciari - McMann

No love for Robertson?

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Robertson - Tavares - Nylander
Knies - O’Reilly - Jarnkrok
McMann - Acciari - Lafferty

 

[ToneDog]

No love for Robertson?

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Robertson - Tavares - Nylander
Knies - O’Reilly - Jarnkrok
McMann - Acciari - Lafferty

Good luck beating Tampa, let alone Boston with than left wing.

 

[Phion Keneuf]

Would love to sign Jake Livingstone. Add a physical RHD to our system. Potential replacement for when Holl / Schenn leave.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

I wanted to take a look at some guys who will be UFAs soon, who are sub 4m and might be available. Anyone catch you eye? Obviously a lot of these guys won't make it to market, and many of them wont be dealt because they are on teams that aren't selling.

One guy not shown is Sebastion Aho of NYI - 27 years old, 2 years at 825k. If NYI falls out next year, this guy would be a real nice aquisition imo.

1 year left (starting the coming off season):

2 years left:

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I wanted to take a look at some guys who will be UFAs soon, who are sub 4m and might be available. Anyone catch you eye? Obviously a lot of these guys won't make it to market, and many of them wont be dealt because they are on teams that aren't selling.

One guy not shown is Sebastion Aho of NYI - 27 years old, 2 years at 825k. If NYI falls out next year, this guy would be a real nice aquisition imo.

1 year left (starting the coming off season):
View attachment 669565

2 years left:
View attachment 669564

Aho may end up losing his job to Bolduc next year, so he is probably available for the right price.

Thing is, he should be a #7 on this team and we are not exactly a team that should be giving up anything for a #7. Kral can probably be at least as good as him by next year if given the chance (and if he stays healthy).

 

[Superstar]

You’re basically placing failure to win a cup entirely on the contracts we gave to Matthews and Marner alone. Both of whom having played to a level worth every penny we have paid them. I reject that premise outright.

Would have been nice had Matthews and Marner signed 8 year deals at their current AAVs wouldn't it? Now they are due for a raise again, so that would leave Dubas to fill around the margins again. How did signing players like Thornton helped because there were only salary scraps left over for them?

 

[WTFMAN99]

Would have been nice had Matthews and Marner signed 8 year deals at their current AAVs wouldn't it? Now they are due for a raise again, so that would leave Dubas to fill around the margins again. How did signing players like Thornton helped because there were only salary scraps left over for them?

The term basically carried them through a relatively flat cap and expire in time for the salary cap to rise...that's a kick in the pills.

 

[Superstar]

The term basically carried them through a relatively flat cap and expire in time for the salary cap to rise...that's a kick in the pills.

You have a point, but when players like McDavid, Kucherov and Eichel signed for 8 years and Matthews and Marner only signed for 5 and 6 years at their cap hits, it's terrible negotiation on Dubas' part.

 

[WTFMAN99]

You have a point, but when players like McDavid, Kucherov and Eichel signed for 8 years and Matthews and Marner only signed for 5 and 6 years at their cap hits, it's terrible negotiation on Dubas' part.

I argued a lot with people on here that Matthews contract wrote itself.

Eichel 8 yrs 10M per
Matthews 8 yrs 11-11.75M per
McDavid 8 yrs 12.5M per

Somewhere between those 2 was where it needed to land.

Marner got I think 2nd highest AAV for a winger in the league, that should have gotten an 8 year term.

it's ancient history now and I think myself and whoever believes differently have had the argument a million different ways, it doesn't seem like it was a great way to do business but we're here now and we gotta still construct a team.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Would have been nice had Matthews and Marner signed 8 year deals at their current AAVs wouldn't it? Now they are due for a raise again, so that would leave Dubas to fill around the margins again. How did signing players like Thornton helped because there were only salary scraps left over for them?

So how is it that our forwards and defense are deeper than when we had all of Matthews, Marner, and Nylander at a combined 3 mil on their ELCs? We have 3 Cs who are miles better than Bozak and Kadri were in 2016, Brodie Gio Muzzin and McCabe are better than every single D we had besides Rielly back then (when he was on a cheaper deal too).

Hyman to Bunting is the only notable “downgrade” and that only happened over Hyman’s desired term not cap hit. If he was willing to do 5.5 x 4-5 years with no NMC he’d still be here.

Just a reminder this was our defense in game 1 of the 2018 Boston series. They had the same combined cap hit as our current starting defense lmao.

Rielly-Hainsey
Gardiner-Zaitsev
Dermott-Polak
Carrick

5/6 of those defensemen (as they were in 2018) wouldn’t make our starting lineup today. If we only kept 6D on the roster and sent our press box guys to the Marlies, half of that 2018 defense wouldn’t make the Marlies.

Up front we went from a 1st line of 60-70 point players, a 2nd line of 50-55 point players, a 3rd line of sheltered one-way 40 point players, and a 4th line you don’t want to see on the ice.

Now we have a 1st line of 90-100 point players, a 2nd line of 80 point players, a shutdown 3rd line of 30-40 point players, and a fourth line the other team doesn’t want to see on the ice.

Where is this lost depth again?

 

[Superstar]

So how is it that our forwards and defense are deeper than when we had all of Matthews, Marner, and Nylander at a combined 3 mil on their ELCs? We have 3 Cs who are miles better than Bozak and Kadri were in 2016, Brodie Gio Muzzin and McCabe are better than every single D we had besides Rielly back then (when he was on a cheaper deal too).

Hyman to Bunting is the only notable “downgrade” and that only happened over Hyman’s desired term not cap hit. If he was willing to do 5.5 x 4-5 years with no NMC he’d still be here.

Just a reminder this was our defense in game 1 of the 2018 Boston series. They had the same combined cap hit as our current starting defense lmao.

Rielly-Hainsey
Gardiner-Zaitsev
Dermott-Polak
Carrick

5/6 of those defensemen (as they were in 2018) wouldn’t make our starting lineup today. If we only kept 6D on the roster and sent our press box guys to the Marlies, half of that 2018 defense wouldn’t make the Marlies.

Up front we went from a 1st line of 60-70 point players, a 2nd line of 50-55 point players, a 3rd line of sheltered one-way 40 point players, and a 4th line you don’t want to see on the ice.

Now we have a 1st line of 90-100 point players, a 2nd line of 80 point players, a shutdown 3rd line of 30-40 point players, and a fourth line the other team doesn’t want to see on the ice.

Where is this lost depth again?

How many playoff rounds has this core won? They are due for another big raise with not much to show for.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I argued a lot with people on here that Matthews contract wrote itself.

Eichel 8 yrs 10M per
Matthews 8 yrs 11-11.75M per
McDavid 8 yrs 12.5M per

Somewhere between those 2 was where it needed to land.

Marner got I think 2nd highest AAV for a winger in the league, that should have gotten an 8 year term.

It did land between McDavid and Eichel.
What it actually ended up, written properly:

McDavid (negotiated) - 17.67% of the cap, 8 years
McDavid (post-discount) - 16.67% of the cap, 8 years
Matthews (negotiated) - 14.64% of the cap, 5 years
Eichel (negotiated) - 13.33% of the cap, 8 years

Which looks how it should; matching the quality of their pre-signing periods, which was McDavid > Matthews >>>> Eichel.
At 8 year terms, you're looking at McDavid with 17.7% taking a discount down to 16.7%, Matthews with probably like ~16.5%, and Eichel with 13.3%.
It should also be noted that McDavid's contract, even pre-discount, was one of the best post-ELC contracts ever given out according to the simplistic measures that many demand to use.

As for Marner, he got the 10th highest value post-ELC contract in the cap era (and 6th highest for a winger), term considered, after having the 6th best pre-signing period.

It sucks that we hit a flat cap, and we didn't get the same benefits that everybody else has gotten with their young stars through cap era history, but the issue was never the contracts themselves. They were appropriate and consistent with the history of post-ELC contracts.

 

[ACC1224]

I argued a lot with people on here that Matthews contract wrote itself.

Eichel 8 yrs 10M per
Matthews 8 yrs 11-11.75M per
McDavid 8 yrs 12.5M per

Somewhere between those 2 was where it needed to land.

Marner got I think 2nd highest AAV for a winger in the league, that should have gotten an 8 year term.

it's ancient history now and I think myself and whoever believes differently have had the argument a million different ways, it doesn't seem like it was a great way to do business but we're here now and we gotta still construct a team.

I’m sure he’s learned from his rookie mistakes. He should handle the next round of signings a little better.

 

[ULF_55]

You have a point, but when players like McDavid, Kucherov and Eichel signed for 8 years and Matthews and Marner only signed for 5 and 6 years at their cap hits, it's terrible negotiation on Dubas' part.

It would have been nice if the players had committed to the Leafs for more years.

It isn't about the team for them though, it's about the paycheque.

Oh, well, most of us will be cheering on the Leafs after they are gone.

 

[LeafSteel]

I’m sure he’s learned from his rookie mistakes. He should handle the next round of signings a little better.

Hopefully our players have also learned that by chasing every penny, they've hamstrung us to assemble the Team needed to add better quality supporting players.

If they can't see that, then maybe we can't win with them (not that they've won anything yet, of course) and a parting of ways is needed for the long-term good of the Team.

Definitely wouldn't be my preference, but I cheer for the Toronto Maple Leafs, and not one or two money-grubbing me-first player(s). I hope that isn't what we are staring down this time.

I think we've shown everyone we are legitimate contenders in an All World hockey Market that supports our Teams and idolizes our hero's. How the Team celebrated and mourned Borje's last days and passing should tell every player on this team what they need to know about being here......

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Watching the Sens the last two weeks, it's become pretty evident to me that Chychrun would have been a poor fit for us. I really coveted his skating, his shot, and I thought he would help get the puck up ice better. Honestly, he feels a lot like Jake Gardiner did out there....the skating is there, but the IQ and blunders are a huge juxtoposition compared to McCabe or even Liljegren.

Hopefully our players have also learned that by chasing every penny, they've hamstrung us to assemble the Team needed to add better quality supporting players.

If they can't see that, then maybe we can't win with them (not that they've won anything yet, of course) and a parting of ways is needed for the long-term good of the Team.

Definitely wouldn't be my preference, but I cheer for the Toronto Maple Leafs, and not one or two money-grubbing me-first player(s). I hope that isn't what we are staring down this time.

I think we've shown everyone we are legitimate contenders in an All World hockey Market that supports our Teams and idolizes our hero's. How the Team celebrated and mourned Borje's last days and passing should tell every player on this team what they need to know about being here......

I wouldn't hold your breath. Our next round of contracts are going to be very painful. Only hope is that the Rantanen/Kucherov deals somehow help us.

 

[ULF_55]

I wouldn't hold your breath. Our next round of contracts are going to be very painful. Only hope is that the Rantanen/Kucherov deals somehow help us.

I don't think those deals will have any bearing on Matthews nor marner.

I don't really think everyone cares, and some will pay whatever it takes to keep them, regardless of the impact on the team.

 

[Fogelhund]

At the end of the day, this group has to win, if they hope to stay together, or get fully paid... at least here. There has to be some degree of success this year, or a change in approach of some type needs to happen.

 

[WTFMAN99]

It did land between McDavid and Eichel.
What it actually ended up, written properly:

McDavid (negotiated) - 17.67% of the cap, 8 years
McDavid (post-discount) - 16.67% of the cap, 8 years
Matthews (negotiated) - 14.64% of the cap, 5 years
Eichel (negotiated) - 13.33% of the cap, 8 years

Which looks how it should; matching the quality of their pre-signing periods, which was McDavid > Matthews >>>> Eichel.
At 8 year terms, you're looking at McDavid with 17.7% taking a discount down to 16.7%, Matthews with probably like ~16.5%, and Eichel with 13.3%.
It should also be noted that McDavid's contract, even pre-discount, was one of the best post-ELC contracts ever given out according to the simplistic measures that many demand to use.

As for Marner, he got the 10th highest value post-ELC contract in the cap era (and 6th highest for a winger), term considered, after having the 6th best pre-signing period.

It sucks that we hit a flat cap, and we didn't get the same benefits that everybody else has gotten with their young stars through cap era history, but the issue was never the contracts themselves. They were appropriate and consistent with the history of post-ELC contracts.

No, it didn't, regardless of how you try to spin it.

If you're thinking of replying, know this, I don't care about your opinion.

 

[Dekes For Days]

No, it didn't

Except it factually did, as I showed you in the post above.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

No, it didn't, regardless of how you try to spin it.

If you're thinking of replying, know this, I don't care about your opinion.

Agents and management absolutely look at caphit %, those numbers are relevant. Pure cap $ amounts are more for fans and radio personalities to fret about.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Except it factually did, as I showed you in the post above.

You have a link to Matthews signing an 8 year extension from a few years ago?

 

[Dekes For Days]

You have a link to Matthews signing an 8 year extension from a few years ago?

You have a link to Matthews signing an extension with a cap hit percentage above 17.67% or below 13.33%?
You have a link to Matthews being offered an 8 year deal with a cap hit percentage above 17.67%?
Matthews falls within McDavid and Eichel cap hit percentages, and still would on a 8 year term.

 

[WTFMAN99]

You have a link to Matthews signing an extension with a cap hit percentage above 17.67% or below 13.33%?
You have a link to Matthews being offered an 8 year deal with a cap hit percentage above 17.67%?
Matthews falls within McDavid and Eichel cap hit percentages, and still would on a 8 year term.

So you don't have a link that shows Matthews to an 8 year extension with an AAV between the McDavid and Eichel cap hits?

Thanks for coming out.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So you don't have a link that shows Matthews to an 8 year extension with an AAV between the McDavid and Eichel cap hits?

Because he didn't sign an 8 year contract. But that doesn't change the fact that the valuation on his contract falls between McDavid and Eichel, at both the terms they got and with any reasonable assessment of equal term. If your argument is that they're incomparable due to different terms, then I don't know why you attempted to compare them in the first place.