Blue Jays Discussion: post-deadline, back-at-home edition

[MS]

If we are talking total WAR I’d be looking for a 5+ WAR player on the left side of the infield.

If you still pay him I don’t think it’d matter. I don’t think these concerns were brought up nearly as much when it was suggested to shift Vlad to DH.

Besides it’s not like he’d get zero starts at SS. I just don’t think he’s consistent enough defensively to play there for 162 games.

Bichette most definitely would care. Being a DH vs. a SS would probably cost him close to $100 million over his career. And the guy clearly views himself as a SS and desperately wants to be there.

Guerrero was a terrible defensive 3B so the DH thing was more realistic. He's now turned turned himself into a very good defensive 1B so that won't happen for years. And again, the numbers show that Bichette is not poor at all defensively at SS. He's had some throwing issues but his range is very good. You're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist, very expensively.

 

[Cloned]

Bichette most definitely would care. Being a DH vs. a SS would probably cost him close to $100 million over his career. And the guy clearly views himself as a SS and desperately wants to be there.

Guerrero was a terrible defensive 3B so the DH thing was more realistic. He's now turned turned himself into a very good defensive 1B so that won't happen for years. And again, the numbers show that Bichette is not poor at all defensively at SS. He's had some throwing issues but his range is very good. You're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist, very expensively.

Pay him non-DH money and give him some starts at 2B and SS. It’s not like he’d be starting at DH every game.

It’s a problem. It cost us in a playoff game last year and it’ll very likely be an issue again at some point down the line in an important game.

 

[Bjindaho]

If we are talking total WAR I’d be looking for a 5+ WAR player on the left side of the infield.

If you still pay him I don’t think it’d matter. I don’t think these concerns were brought up nearly as much when it was suggested to shift Vlad to DH.

Besides it’s not like he’d get zero starts at SS. I just don’t think he’s consistent enough defensively to play there for 162 games.

A 5 WAR SS is worth 25-30 M. Semien happens to be one. So if you sign Correa AND Semien (coincidentallythe only 2 SS in all of baseball that could be considered upgrades and have any chance of being available), it will cost between 50-60 million per year.

OR, we could re-sign Semien to play SS and move Bo and have similar value for 25-30.

To give you an idea about DH values, Nelson Cruz is arguably the best and he's on pace for 2.9 WAR this year. Bo is hitting 19% worse.

 

[MS]

Pay him non-DH money and give him some starts at 2B and SS. It’s not like he’d be starting at DH every game.

It’s a problem. It cost us in a playoff game last year and it’ll very likely be an issue again at some point down the line in an important game.

Rookies make mistakes. You don't pull one of the top SSs in baseball from that position because he made some rookie mistakes. Again, overall the numbers show his defense is perfectly fine. Good range, iffy arm.

 

[Bjindaho]

Pay him non-DH money and give him some starts at 2B and SS. It’s not like he’d be starting at DH every game.

It’s a problem. It cost us in a playoff game last year and it’ll very likely be an issue again at some point down the line in an important game.

Making the team worse isn't the solution.

 

[Cloned]

A 5 WAR SS is worth 25-30 M. Semien happens to be one. So if you sign Correa AND Semien (coincidentallythe only 2 SS in all of baseball that could be considered upgrades and have any chance of being available), it will cost between 50-60 million per year.

OR, we could re-sign Semien to play SS and move Bo and have similar value for 25-30.

To give you an idea about DH values, Nelson Cruz is arguably the best and he's on pace for 2.9 WAR this year. Bo is hitting 19% worse.

I’d be willing to consider moving Bo to 2B instead, but it depends on what Semien wants and whether Bo’s defensive issues will be minimized at 2B vs SS.

I also had Correa as my primary target in mind. I don’t think it’s unrealistic either.

 

[Cloned]

Rookies make mistakes. You don't pull one of the top SSs in baseball from that position because he made some rookie mistakes. Again, overall the numbers show his defense is perfectly fine. Good range, iffy arm.

And if he shows the same issues next year?

Making the team worse isn't the solution.

I don’t think a lineup of

Springer
Bo
Vlad
Correa
Teo
Semien
Gurriel
Catcher
Espinal

is worse.

 

[MS]

And if he shows the same issues next year?



I don’t think a lineup of

Springer
Bo
Vlad
Correa
Teo
Semien
Gurriel
Catcher
Espinal

is worse.

Correa is going to be getting a $400 million contract that runs until he's 40. Good luck with signing that, retaining Semien, and also making the needed adjustments to the pitching staff.

 

[Cloned]

Correa is going to be getting a $400 million contract that runs until he's 40. Good luck with signing that, retaining Semien, and also making the needed adjustments to the pitching staff.

Cost should not be a issue right now, especially since you have some of the younger players under control. Management and ownership should be going all in this offseason.

 

[stickty111]

Vladdy has completely fallen off

 

[MS]

Cost should not be a issue right now, especially since you have some of the younger players under control. Management and ownership should be going all in this offseason.

Of course it's an issue. There is a budget. They aren't going to be splashing out over $500 million for Correa + Semien. $150 million for Springer was *huge* for this team.

If they spend, it should be on a 3B or pitching. Not a replacement for an elite 6 WAR SS that they already have in place.

 

[Cloned]

Of course it's an issue. There is a budget. They aren't going to be splashing out over $500 million for Correa + Semien. $150 million for Springer was *huge* for this team.

If they spend, it should be on a 3B or pitching. Not a replacement for an elite 6 WAR SS that they already have in place.

I’d be OK with spending on a 3B instead and moving Semien to SS with Bo at 2B. As long as they improve the defense on the left side.

 

[zeke]

They spent 5 years saving money

Time to spend.

Letting stars walk when trying to contend would be embarrassing.

 

[Kurtz]

We have 4 years of control on Vlad and 5 on Bo. Only 2 more on Teoscar, but Ryu comes off by then.

Plus we have close to 30 mil in dead cap coming off this off-season. So tons of $$ room to work with. Should have no problem bringing back Semien and Ray for around 4/90 each, and then still have plenty to bring in a couple of big BP arms and a veteran 3B for one year until Groshans/Smith can take over there.

Plus we can probably unload Grichuk's salary to create more space and a surplus of young catching we can move for BP help.

 

[Cloned]

We have 4 years of control on Vlad and 5 on Bo. Only 2 more on Teoscar, but Ryu comes off by then.

Plus we have close to 30 mil in dead cap coming off this off-season. So tons of $$ room to work with. Should have no problem bringing back Semien and Ray for around 4/90 each, and then still have plenty to bring in a couple of big BP arms and a veteran 3B for one year until Groshans/Smith can take over there.

Plus we can probably unload Grichuk's salary to create more space and a surplus of young catching we can move for BP help.

They have no excuse to not field a fairly “complete” roster next season. There should not be any obvious deficiencies aside from maybe a 5th starter and backup catcher.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Vladdy has completely fallen off

Is it just me or has he slowly lost his mojo since they came home?

 

[CherryToke]

Is it just me or has he slowly lost his mojo since they came home?

Looks like it

182 wRC+ post all star break (July 16th - July 29th) in 50 Plate appearances before returning to TO

84 wRC+ July 30th - Aug 8th at Rogers Center in 44 PAs

111 wRC+ Aug 10th - Aug 18th on the road in 36 PAs

Lets see how he does on the next home stand

 

[Kurtz]

They have no excuse to not field a fairly “complete” roster next season. There should not be any obvious deficiencies aside from maybe a 5th starter and backup catcher.

If they bring Ray back, I think our SP looks great. Can let Matz leave and we still have Ray-Barrios-Ryu-Manoah-Stripling-Pearson-Hatch

 

[Kurtz]

Is it just me or has he slowly lost his mojo since they came home?

He said he got tired at the end of last year. He was fatter then, but also only 60 games. Might be happening again. May need to work on conditioning again this off-season, plus we might want to give him some more games off next year.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Legend123]

this team is going nowhere. Cant put it all together. Theres always one of the three problems showing up in each game.
- Poor Starting pitching
- poor hitting, or
-bad bullpen

This despite having a very good batting order and pitching starters

 

[Marshy]

Getting bored with Jays disappointment. About ready for some good old fashioned Leafs disappointment. Change it up.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Blue Jays Top Prospects | MLB.com

 

[dredeye]

Manoah on Bereavement list speaks to how poorly he pitched yesterday. He must have know things werent good with a loved one prior to his start. Bad on Jays for letting him pitch it showed in his outing.

You can’t say bad on the jays. Maybe he wanted to pitch for the loved one he lost. Lots of pros do that

 

[TGB]

Vladdy: "Okay Teo, you've had your fun. Give me my bat back!"