Blue Jays Discussion: post-deadline, back-at-home edition

[stickty111]

poor Montoya he gets all the shit for the bobsey twins shatskins they give him chickens shit and expect him to make chickens salad

A completely silly and biased post, but no surprise. Spreading false facts makes you look desparate.
Also wow Martin is hitting .245.

 

[stickty111]

did Charlie Aguirre these bums the 27 yankes couldn't win with this bull pen

Did management tell him to use the wrong guys. A decent manager would make it work.

 

[phillipmike]

I really really like Semien and would love to re-sign him but if he wants big money then I’m fine letting him go and collecting the draft pick.

I rather spend big money on pitching. Re-sign Ray or grab someone else and extend Berrios. A la the Cubs or Astros model.

Spending big money on a position where you have multiple good to great prospects isn’t wise. It was my thoughts on the catcher position and potentially signing Realmuto with Jansen, McGuire, Kirk, Adams and Moreno on the 40 man. Didn’t work out as our catchers struggled and Realmuto hasn’t missed a beat but there is more to judge than just one season.

Bo isn’t going anywhere and by signing Semien you have to move Biggio to get a real 3B or move him to the bench which would be a waste. Having Bo and Semien for 5 years with Groshans, Lopez, Orelvis, Hiraldo and others may not be the best investment.

If he takes 3+1 years or less I consider it but if he wants a Springer type deal, I’ll let him go. That being said he probably deserves a Springer type deal. Looks like he is a great teammate and leader who can perform.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[weems]

How good is Samad Taylor?

Out of all the top prospects who played at NH (Martin, Groshans, Lopez) he's been the best offensively this season.

Hit his 16th hr of the season tonight and hitting .297

 

[Canada4Gold]

Trent Palmer just threw a 7 inning no hitter with 10 K’s

 

[phillipmike]

Nate Pearson looked like lost a lot of weight and in a great way. Looks much leaner and could keep him healthier.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see if he lost 20-30 pounds.

 

[phillipmike]

Tyler Chatwood:

28 innings with the Jays: -0.1 bWAR
2 innings with the Giants: -0.6 bWAR

 

[Puckstuff]

How good is Samad Taylor?

Out of all the top prospects who played at NH (Martin, Groshans, Lopez) he's been the best offensively this season.

Hit his 16th hr of the season tonight and hitting .297

Baseball is funny compared with hockey/basketball. Prospects can come out of no where. Groshans, Martin have got all the attention like a Scottie Barnes level and in 1 year you can have a guy like Taylor have a way better season then both of them although yes a year older

 

[Discoverer]

Baseball is funny compared with hockey/basketball. Prospects can come out of no where. Groshans, Martin have got all the attention like a Scottie Barnes level and in 1 year you can have a guy like Taylor have a way better season then both of them although yes a year older

The K-rate could easily hold him back, but that power/speed combo from yet another versatile defender is nice to see. A bench full of guys who play all over the field and make league minimum would be awesome for this team.

 

[Puckstuff]

I really really like Semien and would love to re-sign him but if he wants big money then I’m fine letting him go and collecting the draft pick.

I rather spend big money on pitching. Re-sign Ray or grab someone else and extend Berrios. A la the Cubs or Astros model.

Spending big money on a position where you have multiple good to great prospects isn’t wise. It was my thoughts on the catcher position and potentially signing Realmuto with Jansen, McGuire, Kirk, Adams and Moreno on the 40 man. Didn’t work out as our catchers struggled and Realmuto hasn’t missed a beat but there is more to judge than just one season.

Bo isn’t going anywhere and by signing Semien you have to move Biggio to get a real 3B or move him to the bench which would be a waste. Having Bo and Semien for 5 years with Groshans, Lopez, Orelvis, Hiraldo and others may not be the best investment.

If he takes 3+1 years or less I consider it but if he wants a Springer type deal, I’ll let him go. That being said he probably deserves a Springer type deal. Looks like he is a great teammate and leader who can perform.

I tend to agree.

The biggest single positional WAR upgrade this team can make in the lineup (along with 3B) is actually corner outfield not 2B because of how much Grichcuk sucks. Biggio is likely a better 2B then Grichcuk is in RF. So we have to be real careful with giving big money to Semien. If there’s a clear option to upgrade Grichcuk they may do that instead of bringing back Semien. Hard to say what Biggio is worth over a full season at 2B but it’s probably twice as valuable as Grich in RF. Finding a better RF that can also play CF will be hard though but this teams internal weakness is corner outfield not infield. Bringing back Semien might not make sense with the amount of depth we have up the middle but it will probably come down to who’s willing to actually sign here. Not sure who would be available as a corner OF or 3B. Alternatively we re-sign Semien and then turn Biggio and some of our infield prospect capital into a corner OF+3B or pitching.

 

[trellaine201]

Pearson does appear to have lost some weight. Hopefully that helps long term.

 

[Discoverer]

I tend to agree.

The biggest single positional WAR upgrade this team can make in the lineup (along with 3B) is actually corner outfield not 2B because of how much Grichcuk sucks. Biggio is likely a better 2B then Grichcuk is in RF. So we have to be real careful with giving big money to Semien. If there’s a clear option to upgrade Grichcuk they may do that instead of bringing back Semien. Hard to say what Biggio is worth over a full season at 2B but it’s probably twice as valuable as Grich in RF. Finding a better RF that can also play CF will be hard though but this teams internal weakness is corner outfield not infield. Bringing back Semien might not make sense with the amount of depth we have up the middle but it will probably come down to who’s willing to actually sign here. Not sure who would be available as a corner OF or 3B. Alternatively we re-sign Semien and then turn Biggio and some of our infield prospect capital into a corner OF+3B or pitching.

I would like to see them move Grichuk to clear as much of the salary as possible and replace him with Palacios or some cheap platoon signing, but the only way the outfield is a weakness is if you don't think Gurriel is actually any good. And that's fair, considering he's been barely above replacement-level this year, but I still think he can do more. They're getting elite CF and RF production, though.

I love this comparison of the last two years:

Player A - 35 HR, .278/.369/.526, 144 wRC+, 4.7 fWAR
Player B - 38 HR, .308/.353/.555, 145 wRC+, 4.7 fWAR

 

[TF97]

Cesar Valdez was DFA'd by Baltimore. It might sound crazy to take a chance on a 36 year old reliever who averages 85 MPH on his fastball and has a 5.76 ERA on the season, but I personally would. Despite being 36 years old, he's still a pre-arbitration player and will essentially be controllable for cheap until his arm falls off - as cruel as that may be. However, in 2020 (small sample size or not), he genuinely baffled hitters with his change up/screwball/self-proclaimed 'dead fish' or whatever you want to call it. Batters hit just .14o off it with a .176 wOBA.

This season though, he has pretty much subscribed to the Baltimore Orioles way of leaving way too many pitches over the heart of the plate. He is still getting ridiculous movement (~50 average inches of drop) on that change up/screwball/dead fish/whatever you want to call it. When he is locating that at the bottom of the zone, it also greatly helps his fastball, if it's even fast enough to be deemed one.

Regardless though, I would personally take a shot at adding some more funk to the bullpen and hope Walker and the R&D team can identify some mechanical changes that can help Valdez with his location. It wouldn't be the first time they have done that with a veteran pitcher. It also becomes easier to roster him with expanded rosters approaching and arms like Overton, Snead, and Saucedo on the roster. However, given his affordability, control, and potential upside, I suspect a rebuilding team might take a flier and try to rebuild some of his value heading into next season.

I mean, just look at this thing

 

[Puckstuff]

I would like to see them move Grichuk to clear as much of the salary as possible and replace him with Palacios or some cheap platoon signing, but the only way the outfield is a weakness is if you don't think Gurriel is actually any good. And that's fair, considering he's been barely above replacement-level this year, but I still think he can do more. They're getting elite CF and RF production, though.

I love this comparison of the last two years:

Player A - 35 HR, .278/.369/.526, 144 wRC+, 4.7 fWAR
Player B - 38 HR, .308/.353/.555, 145 wRC+, 4.7 fWAR

CF and RF will get great production when it's Teoscar and Springer but whatever position Grichcuk plays needs to be upgraded. I said RF to illustrate Grichcuk's spot in the lineup, I didn't mean Teoscar. My bad.

1B, SS, OF 1, OF 2 is where our strength is, the Jays have 4 guys that should be top 5 in WAR at those positions (Springer, Teoscar, Bichette, Gurrerro). Catcher is also set with Moreno, Kirk and McGuire as internal options. You have DH which will be rotated through. Then you have 3B, OF 3 (LF or RF whatever one Teo doesn't play) and 2B left. I'd rank the priority order to fix those positions as 1) 3B 2) OF 3 and 3) 2B. Biggio at 2B for next season has the potential to be a 3+ WAR player where as Grichcuk we know what he is, a 1-1.5 WAR guy who strikes out a lot. Gurriel has suspect defence at times but I still want him back because of the bat potential and he can play 1B. If an opportunity arises to upgrade 1 position player by signing an impact 6 WAR player and the choice is 2B vs corner outfield, the net gain of getting a 5-6 WAR player to upgrade on Grich would be a bigger net gain over Biggio at 2B most likely because I believe they will keep running out Grichcuk as much as possible if he's here. He always finds him self in the lineup. Then you have Gurriel as a rotated outfielder, DH and 1B. So my point is I'd upgrade on the 3rd OF spot (Grichcuk) over 2B (Biggio) if we had a pick of signing a major impact player... but ultimately it comes down to who will sign here and who we can add. Semien might be back just because he's willing but the actual biggest net gain if we're adding a 6 WAR guy is Grichcuk's outfield spot not Biggio's 2B.

 

[Discoverer]

CF and RF will get great production when it's Teoscar and Springer but whatever position Grichcuk plays needs to be upgraded. I said RF to illustrate Grichcuk's spot in the lineup, I didn't mean Teoscar. My bad.

1B, SS, OF 1, OF 2 is where our strength is, the Jays have 4 guys that should be top 5 in WAR at those positions (Springer, Teoscar, Bichette, Gurrerro). Catcher is also set with Moreno, Kirk and McGuire as internal options. You have DH which will be rotated through. Then you have 3B, OF 3 (LF or RF whatever one Teo doesn't play) and 2B left. I'd rank the priority order to fix those positions as 1) 3B 2) OF 3 and 3) 2B. Biggio at 2B for next season has the potential to be a 3+ WAR player where as Grichcuk we know what he is, a 1-1.5 WAR guy who strikes out a lot. Gurriel has suspect defence at times but I still want him back because of the bat potential and he can play 1B. If an opportunity arises to upgrade 1 position player by signing an impact 6 WAR player and the choice is 2B vs corner outfield, the net gain of getting a 5-6 WAR player to upgrade on Grich would be a bigger net gain over Biggio at 2B most likely because I believe they will keep running out Grichcuk as much as possible if he's here. He always finds him self in the lineup. Then you have Gurriel as a rotated outfielder, DH and 1B. So my point is I'd upgrade on the 3rd OF spot (Grichcuk) over 2B (Biggio) if we had a pick of signing a major impact player... but ultimately it comes down to who will sign here and who we can add. Semien might be back just because he's willing but the actual biggest net gain if we're adding a 6 WAR guy is Grichcuk's outfield spot not Biggio's 2B.

Honestly, they can really improve the OF situation by just not playing Grichuk so damn much.

 

[stickty111]

 

[Leafin]

Lol shocking Merryweather got hurt

 

[Puckstuff]

Honestly, they can really improve the OF situation by just not playing Grichuk so damn much.

I think we'll need someone better then Palacios next year. Starling Marte is a free agent. Marte in and Grichuck out would be a big upgrade. If we retain 4.5-5 million on the last 20.6 million on Grichcuk's contract I'm sure some team would see value in Grich at 2 years and 16 million, maybe.

 

[TGB]

No one seems to want Grichuk. If they can trade him, fine, but Springer is a health risk and if you're going to have a fourth outfielder around to collect 300 at bats or so, a decent all around outfielder who has the ability to hit 20 home runs and some decent to good production is a good fit. It's not like there is much time left in his contract.

Marte is older, will want more term, and will be playing on turf. And he will likely want as much or more than Grichuk's contract. If your goal is better and cheaper, you're not getting it with Marte (not cheaper, anyway).

I'd rank the priority order to fix those positions as 1) 3B 2) OF 3 and 3) 2B.

Pretty much. I like Semien, and if the Jays shoot for a sign then trade in a couple seasons deal then I'm for that, but not at the expense of pitching. But 2B/3B is pretty much where the bad shortstops go, and we might have plenty of 2B/3Bs coming in the future. Players that can really stick at SS are rarer, so we should really be spending that money on one of the many SS free agents that will be available next year.

I think the outfield is fine, though. Highly productive and decent enough fielding. Wish Gurriel was more consistent but overall one of the most productive outfields in the majors.

But again, the priority should always be pitching, pitching, pitching.

I really really like Semien and would love to re-sign him but if he wants big money then I’m fine letting him go and collecting the draft pick.
I rather spend big money on pitching. Re-sign Ray or grab someone else and extend Berrios. A la the Cubs or Astros model.
Spending big money on a position where you have multiple good to great prospects isn’t wise. It was my thoughts on the catcher position and potentially signing Realmuto with Jansen, McGuire, Kirk, Adams and Moreno on the 40 man. Didn’t work out as our catchers struggled and Realmuto hasn’t missed a beat but there is more to judge than just one season.
Bo isn’t going anywhere and by signing Semien you have to move Biggio to get a real 3B or move him to the bench which would be a waste. Having Bo and Semien for 5 years with Groshans, Lopez, Orelvis, Hiraldo and others may not be the best investment.
If he takes 3+1 years or less I consider it but if he wants a Springer type deal, I’ll let him go. That being said he probably deserves a Springer type deal. Looks like he is a great teammate and leader who can perform.

Pretty much what I've been saying all season, minus the catching aspect. I was hoping the catching would be better; however, it now looks like we should lean more defensive/pitch calling at catcher anyway given pitching has been so wildly inconsistent and the offense is more than good enough as is.

 

[CherryToke]

Petition to fire Montoyo

Sign the Petition

 

[zeke]

We just pulled Kirk with a risp for breyvic fricken Valera to BUNT.

What in frocken hell Montoya.

We deserve to lose.

 

[zeke]

Fire him.

 

[zeke]

Pinch hitting for Kirk is indefensible in ANY situation.

Bunting in that situation is also indefensible.

Bringing in AAA fodder like Valera in that situation is unbelievably indefensible.

One of the worst manager decisions I have ever witnessed.

 

[zeke]

Breyvic Valera has a 42wrc+ this year, 56wrc+ career.

And we used him as a pinch hitter in the bottom of the 9th for one of our better hitters.

With the intention of handing a first out to a pitcher that had walked the first two batters.

The more I think about it the worse it gets.