Possible trade and roster fixes for the Wings, Part III

[Heaton]

Surprised people are talking about Franzen being bought out because it's a rather taboo subject. Because, you know, he was awesome in the playoffs ten years ago.

My main issue is the fact that to get similar production/size from someone in the FA market to replace Franzen, you're looking at a cap hit around 5.5 to 6m.

 

[TatarTangle]

I think there's a good chance it happens as well, but there are some people here that act like it's not even a possibility. Every player that's been in Babcock's doghouse at some point is gone (Hudler, Filppula, Leino, Brunner), except for Franzen. Granted, they all had expiring contracts, but I think Cleary being waived and Franzen being bought out are real possibilities.

It should be a discussion but I don't see any action coming of it. Move Franzen to center, the nature of the position doesn't allow him to take shifts off and he knows how to play it. Consequently, whenever he has played center, he's looked good. Doesn't score as much, but is much more involved in the play. And considering his skill level, that's a good thing. Go something along the lines of:

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Alfredsson
Nyquist - Franzen - Tatar
Sheahan - Helm - Jurco
Abdelkader - Weiss - Miller / Eaves

You could also do:

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Abdelkader
Nyquist - Franzen - Alfredsson
Tatar - Sheahan - Jurco
Weiss - Helm - Miller / Eaves

Yea, yea Nyquist and Zetterberg have good chemistry but everyone has chemistry with Hank. He's that good. Nyquist needs to be on the second line to make up for Tatar and Franzen's lackluster play in their own end.

Regardless; Franzen is someone you can live with but can also live without due to his contract and nature of injuries. It's not a bad situation to be in.

My main issue is the fact that to get similar production/size from someone in the FA market to replace Franzen, you're looking at a cap hit around 5.5 to 6m.

I would counter with he doesn't use his size, and given the cap is going up, a 2-3 year deal around $5-$6 million is a better situation to be in. But also; see above

 

[Heaton]

I would counter with he doesn't use his size, and given the cap is going up, a 2-3 year deal around $5-$6 million is a better situation to be in. But also; see above

Which UFA's are signing 2-3 year deals when they're on the open market?

 

[TatarTangle]

Which UFA's are signing 2-3 year deals when they're on the open market?

Semin was signing 1-3 years deal until he recently signed with Carolina for 5 years which isn't a big deal considering his age. Grabovski nets ~25 a year. He'll probably get a 3-4 year deal.

Regardless, as I said in the post before this,

But also; see above

I explain why having Franzen isn't a bad situation to be in and why a move to center would benefit him and the team.

 

[crashman]

Semin was signing 1-3 years deal until he recently signed with Carolina for 5 years which isn't a big deal considering his age. Grabovski nets ~25 a year. He'll probably get a 3-4 year deal.

Regardless, as I said in the post before this,

I explain why having Franzen isn't a bad situation to be in and why a move to center would benefit him and the team.

We already have Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Weiss, Helm, Sheahan, Andersson and Glendenning at center. I really don't think there's enough ice-time to go around with Franzen playing center. But if they want to play D & Z together, Weiss on Franzen's wing...then it could work, but I don't think those are very good lines. We'll have to start moving a lot of key guys out of their natural positions just to get them IT.

 

[TatarTangle]

We already have Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Weiss, Helm, Sheahan, Andersson and Glendenning at center. I really don't there's enough ice-time to go around with Franzen playing center.

•Andersson and Glendening can play wing. Glendening shouldn't be a regular on the Red Wings anyways. It's looking like Andersson can be shipped out for a draft pick as well. Or ship him and Kindl to somehwere. That leaves you Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Weiss, Helm and Sheahan.

•Datsyuk and Zetterberg are more dangerous together. When you have the depth the Red Wings have you can have them on the same line. That leaves you Datsyuk, Weiss, Helm and Sheahan.

•Weiss has to earn a spot. Given the nature of his surgery I wouldn't be starting him off at center nor anywhere near the first or second or third line. I'd start him off on the wing. That leaves you Datsyuk, Helm and Sheahan

•Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Abdelkader
Nyquist - Franzen - Alfredsson
Tatar - Sheahan - Jurco
Weiss - Helm - Miller / Eaves

I'm sure that puts the Red Wings over the cap though, Henkka where are you? It's not possible on capgeek, I fully expect Henkka to manipulate the system and make it work. Thanks bud.

 

[crashman]

•Andersson and Glendening can play wing. Glendening shouldn't be a regular on the Red Wings anyways. It's looking like Andersson can be shipped out for a draft pick as well. That leaves you Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Weiss, Helm and Sheahan.

•Datsyuk and Zetterberg are more dangerous together. When you have the depth the Red Wings have you can have them on the same line. That leaves you Datsyuk, Weiss, Helm and Sheahan.

•Weiss has to earn a spot. Given the nature of his surgery I wouldn't be starting him off at center. I'd start him off on the wing. That leaves you Datsyuk, Helm and Sheahan

•Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Abdelkader
Nyquist - Franzen - Alfredsson
Tatar - Sheahan - Jurco
Weiss - Helm - Miller / Eaves

That might work, assuming Weiss is never capable of playing center in the top 6. I'm not someone who think's D & Z belong together, so it's really difficult for me to see Franzen at center. I'd much rather see him replaced with a RH shooting winger than see him as our 2nd line center.

 

[JohanFranzenstein]

My name is not AlexEdlerstein.

 

[InjuredChoker]

My name is not AlexEdlerstein.

i'm blaming you that your name isn't ErikKarlssonstein.

 

[jaster]

•Andersson and Glendening can play wing. Glendening shouldn't be a regular on the Red Wings anyways. It's looking like Andersson can be shipped out for a draft pick as well. Or ship him and Kindl to somehwere. That leaves you Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Weiss, Helm and Sheahan.

•Datsyuk and Zetterberg are more dangerous together. When you have the depth the Red Wings have you can have them on the same line. That leaves you Datsyuk, Weiss, Helm and Sheahan.

•Weiss has to earn a spot. Given the nature of his surgery I wouldn't be starting him off at center nor anywhere near the first or second or third line. I'd start him off on the wing. That leaves you Datsyuk, Helm and Sheahan

•Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Abdelkader
Nyquist - Franzen - Alfredsson
Tatar - Sheahan - Jurco
Weiss - Helm - Miller / Eaves

I'm sure that puts the Red Wings over the cap though, Henkka where are you? It's not possible on capgeek, I fully expect Henkka to manipulate the system and make it work. Thanks bud.

I actually don't mind Franzen at center, but the Wings/Babcock prefer not to use him there when everyone is healthy. I don't see any reason that will change.

I think you'll be disappointed if you want Weiss to start off playing wing on the 4th line. Even if that does happen, it will be for only a couple games. So, long-term, you're looking at Weiss at center and Franzen on the win. And that's assuming Hank and Dats stay together, which hasn't happened in a very long time.

 

[detredWINgs]

i want zidlicky

You're not the only one. He's been a good fit for the Wings for pretty much the entirety of his career, going back to his Nashville days.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

What do you think we could get for Datsyuk at this point?

Nothing because Datsyuk has already stated numerous times that he wont accept a move to another team and he would retire before playing for another team.

 

[kuick]

My main issue is the fact that to get similar production/size from someone in the FA market to replace Franzen, you're looking at a cap hit around 5.5 to 6m.

Definitely.. but Franzen being healthy is becoming an issue in itself. Being inconsistent and streaky is one thing, but not playing most of the season is another. Who knows if post-concussion Franzen is anything close to the flashes of his former self that he showed this season. Depending on what he shows the rest of the season, a buy-out could still be considered. This offseason is the last chance for a compliance buyout.

Although it would probably never happen, Mantha could fill Franzen's skates quite nicely next year. Rushing him might be risky but he's the most talented guy we have and he's cheap. Jurco has the size and a nice shot as well, could be a Franzen-lite for next year, depending on how he continues transitioning.

Franzen is replaceable, but we don't need a free agent to do that. His contract is looking more and more risky for the future and compliance is the only way out. Can't say for sure if we should do it yet, but it needs to be looked at.

 

[Henkka]

Definitely.. but Franzen being healthy is becoming an issue in itself. Being inconsistent and streaky is one thing, but not playing most of the season is another. Who knows if post-concussion Franzen is anything close to the flashes of his former self that he showed this season. Depending on what he shows the rest of the season, a buy-out could still be considered. This offseason is the last chance for a compliance buyout.

No.

LTIR is the solution for a guy with concussion problems. That doesn't affect any real cap problems, if his career will end.

But still, if there's a possibility to get Franzen healthy, I want to see him on the team. He is that good. Worth every penny of his caphit.

We will use our last compliance buyout for Tootoo and move on.

 

[Chance on Chance]

No.

LTIR is the solution for a guy with concussion problems. That doesn't affect any real cap problems, if his career will end.

But still, if there's a possibility to get Franzen healthy, I want to see him on the team. He is that good. Worth every penny of his caphit.

We will use our last compliance buyout for Tootoo and move on.

I just dont want a 38 year old franzen on the wings 3rd or 4th line being like a bertuzzi

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Franzen will end his career on LTIR or play it out in my opinion. Keep in mind Franzen has only really had this contract in terms of big contracts, he is going to want every dime out of it. I don't expect him to walk early, so while some parts of that contract can be concerning this might be a bit overplayed. The Wings will have to think about that, but it is a factor in my mind at least, I think Franzen wants every single dime out of that 43 million.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Franzen will end his career on LTIR or play it out in my opinion. Keep in mind Franzen has only really had this contract in terms of big contracts, he is going to want every dime out of it. I don't expect him to walk early, so while some parts of that contract can be concerning this might be a bit overplayed. The Wings will have to think about that, but it is a factor in my mind at least, I think Franzen wants every single dime out of that 43 million.

how much has he been paid so far i wonder(actual dollars received?)

if he is bought out whats left/how much will he get as compensation

i wonder if in his mind it would be better to get bought out and sign elsewhere as he could easily get a 4 year 20 milion dollar deal someplace else this summer

 

[NyquistIsMyGod*]

•Andersson and Glendening can play wing. Glendening shouldn't be a regular on the Red Wings anyways. It's looking like Andersson can be shipped out for a draft pick as well. Or ship him and Kindl to somehwere. That leaves you Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Weiss, Helm and Sheahan.

•Datsyuk and Zetterberg are more dangerous together. When you have the depth the Red Wings have you can have them on the same line. That leaves you Datsyuk, Weiss, Helm and Sheahan.

•Weiss has to earn a spot. Given the nature of his surgery I wouldn't be starting him off at center nor anywhere near the first or second or third line. I'd start him off on the wing. That leaves you Datsyuk, Helm and Sheahan

•Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Abdelkader
Nyquist - Franzen - Alfredsson
Tatar - Sheahan - Jurco
Weiss - Helm - Miller / Eaves

I'm sure that puts the Red Wings over the cap though, Henkka where are you? It's not possible on capgeek, I fully expect Henkka to manipulate the system and make it work. Thanks bud.

1. Joakim Andersson really isn't much on the wing. Isn't the greatest player, but better in the middle. Luke Glendennig is still raw, but is also better in the middle. Needs to continue and learn the wing. Easier adjust from centre to the wing obviously.
2. Henrik Zetterberg and Pavel Datsyuk were fine together. However, up until this season they didn't work well together for about five seasons. The team is better with them split up. It's pretty much a fact. You could move Zetterberg to the wing with Weiss in the middle and Mule on the right side. It's interesting.

Zetterberg-Weiss-Nyquist
Franzen-Datsyuk-Alfredsson
Tatar-Helm-Abdelkader
Miller-Andersson-Sheahan
Eaves, Glendening


Depending on Franzen, I'd LOVE to get Jaromir Jagr.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I just dont want a 38 year old franzen on the wings 3rd or 4th line being like a bertuzzi

THIS. People want to assume Johan Franzen will act like Brian Rafalski. But what if he acts like Mikael Samuelsson? There's too much risk there, even if his cap hit isn't terrible. It is going to be a very fast downhill slide for Mule. Best to get rid of that cap hit. If you can do it while acquiring a legit top 2-3 D-man then so much the better.

 

[Heaton]

THIS. People want to assume Johan Franzen will act like Brian Rafalski. But what if he acts like Mikael Samuelsson? There's too much risk there, even if his cap hit isn't terrible. It is going to be a very fast downhill slide for Mule. Best to get rid of that cap hit. If you can do it while acquiring a legit top 2-3 D-man then so much the better.

Then he becomes a powerplay specialist like Holmstrom in limited IT. I don't think it'll be an issue.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

how much has he been paid so far i wonder(actual dollars received?)

if he is bought out whats left/how much will he get as compensation

i wonder if in his mind it would be better to get bought out and sign elsewhere as he could easily get a 4 year 20 milion dollar deal someplace else this summer

Yeah I think he would actually get more money if we bought him out this summer on the whole. Not sure the Wings really look at that as a viable option they have maintained from the very start they think he will always retain some trade value, both Devellano and Holland have kind of slipped those comments in when asked about buying him out.

At 2/3 of the remaining money on the contact which has 17.5 million left on it after this year, he should easily surpass that on the open market even with his head injuries. Financially it would be better for Franzen to get bought out no doubt about that.

 

[NyquistIsMyGod*]

Yup. Let's trade a 55-60 point Johan Franzen who's making 4M for a #3 defenseman long-term. No, you don't do that. Franzen will likely eat up on LTIR when he's getting up there in age. You also have the cap contining to go up. Detroit will likely make a big push next season despite not doing much in free agency.

Big guys' last hoo-rah and the kids are really coming into their own.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Then he becomes a powerplay specialist like Holmstrom in limited IT. I don't think it'll be an issue.

I think he becomes Freddy Modin. A big guy with a heavy shot that isn't what he used to be but pops in some pretty massive goals from time to time.

But like you said Franzen can play down the lineup and be special teams help even once he starts aging. So that element of his game is important in terms of his value projecting him as an older player.

 

[Frk It]

Luke Glendennig is still raw, but is also better in the middle. Needs to continue and learn the wing. Easier adjust from centre to the wing obviously.

Glendeing is naturally a winger. He's better suited to play wing.

 

[Winger98]

No.

LTIR is the solution for a guy with concussion problems. That doesn't affect any real cap problems, if his career will end.

But still, if there's a possibility to get Franzen healthy, I want to see him on the team. He is that good. Worth every penny of his caphit.

We will use our last compliance buyout for Tootoo and move on.

It should be said that Franzen has missed significant time only one other time in his career (twice if you count his second year in the league where he played 69 gmaes). He seems to miss 5-10 games a year, which sucks to have him out, but it's not like he's missing 20-30 games every other year with massive, debilitating injuries. Concussions are certainly an injury we should be more leery of, but there's a lot of guess work involved in saying the guy's going to crap out health wise in the near future. It's possible, obviously, but I think it's just as likely he keeps playing his 75 or so games a year for the next three or four years and just keeps being Franzen.