Possible trade and roster fixes for the Wings, Part III

[InjuredChoker]

Wait..... What?

when edler is on the ice, canucks have scored 34.1% of the goals 5on5. they have score more than 50% of goals without him.

for example, NJ devils scored 35.9% of goals in 11-12 season... in 4on5 pk.

that kind of results one would expect from career AHLer or something.

or like those +/- that Z4C posted. if that would be his true level, he wont be in NHL for a long time.

some players have had as bad stats; they either improved or were out of NHL, sooner or later.

 

[last_sd]

This is just a rumor. I don't know the credibility for this but I'd like to just this out there. So here goes:

Source: The Fourth Period



Source: Hockeysverige.se - Swedish site


Google translate: Detroit Red Wings chasing a new defenseman. Vancouver Canucks want to fill with a strong forward. According to The Fourth Period, it may result in a trade where Alexander Edler and Johan Franzen change club.



Google translate:Since Edler only 27 years old and 34 years Franzen, Red Wings probably be forced to give up any more in order to acquire the defenseman (Edler) from Östersund (Hometown). The Fourth Period report that talks between the clubs progress. One obstacle is the concussion problems that Franzen drawn with problems that forced him to cancel the Olympics.

From what I remember TFP is basically pure speculation site with no "real sources". But I could be wrong.

As for the actual rumor, if Franzen decides to retire before end of his contract, don't we still get cap penalty even if we trade him?
If he stays with our team at least we can handle things internally.

If it's 1-1 deal, I would be happy with it but I don't know much about the cap penalty issue.

 

[InjuredChoker]

From what I remember TFP is basically pure speculation site with no "real sources". But I could be wrong.

As for the actual rumor, if Franzen decide to retire before end of his contract, don't we still get cap penalty even if we trade him?
If he says with our team at least we can handle things internally.

If it's 1-1 deal, I would be happy with it but I don't know much about the cap penalty issue.

yes.

 

[Henkka]

Funny thing. Like it was in that 2004 draft, we were hunting after Edler and when Canucks stole him, he "had to" draft Franzen.

Now, if those pieces are traded...

Cap-vise, we should be forced to add at least 1.1M guy with Franzen on the deal...

 

[newfy]

Fourth period is actually decent

I would do it straight up without a doubt. And add a solid prospect like Almquist or Pulkkinen even possibly. Edler is only 27, just likely hitting his prime.

Allow Mantha and Jurco to come in and battle for a top line spot if theyre worried about lsoing size at forward. Someone like Tatar is worth a look on a top line as well. Between those 3 next year I dobut Franzen would be missed

 

[last_sd]

Following up on the cap penalty for early retirement issue.
Is there a way to calculate the cap penalty?
I don't see it on the capgeek site.

Another note: VAN basically said that they are re-building. Why would they want 34 year old?

 

[InjuredChoker]

Following up on the cap penalty for early retirement issue.
Is there a way to calculate the cap penalty?
I don't see it on the capgeek site.

http://capgeek.com/recapture-calculator/

Another note: VAN basically said that they are re-building. Why would they want 34 year old?

which is why this likely won't happen.

 

[SoupNazi]

Following up on the cap penalty for early retirement issue.
Is there a way to calculate the cap penalty?
I don't see it on the capgeek site.

Another note: VAN basically said that they are re-building. Why would they want 34 year old?

Exactly why this is nothing but a rumor. I swear I saw this proposed on the trade board here a few days ago.

 

[Henkka]

If Mule would retire 2 seasons before his contract end:

RECAPTURE CALCULATOR RESULTS

If Johan Franzen retires or defects in the 2017 off-season (age 37 as of July 1 that year), and was traded to the Vancouver Canucks 70 percent of the way through the 2013-14 season, following is an estimated breakdown of the recapture penalties for the involved teams.

Team Benefit Penalty
Detroit Red Wings (2017-18 through 2019-20) $5,495,455 $1,831,818
Vancouver Canucks (2017-18 through 2019-20) $2,368,182 $789,394

IMPORTANT NOTES [ Edited June 2, 2013 ]: Teams do not receive a credit for net negative cap benefit (where cap hit exceeds salary over the course of the contract prior to retirement). However, in calculating net "cap advantage," teams do receive a credit for seasons in which cap hit exceeds salary ... Calculations for players who have been traded during the season are rough estimates based on best information available and may differ from actual league numbers.

If he retires 3 years before the contract end:

RECAPTURE CALCULATOR RESULTS

If Johan Franzen retires or defects in the 2016 off-season (age 36 as of July 1 that year), and was traded to the Vancouver Canucks 70 percent of the way through the 2013-14 season, following is an estimated breakdown of the recapture penalties for the involved teams.

Team Benefit Penalty
Detroit Red Wings (2016-17 through 2019-20) $5,495,455 $1,373,864
Vancouver Canucks (2016-17 through 2019-20) $2,822,727 $705,682

IMPORTANT NOTES [ Edited June 2, 2013 ]: Teams do not receive a credit for net negative cap benefit (where cap hit exceeds salary over the course of the contract prior to retirement). However, in calculating net "cap advantage," teams do receive a credit for seasons in which cap hit exceeds salary ... Calculations for players who have been traded during the season are rough estimates based on best information available and may differ from actual league numbers.

 

[Frk It]

when edler is on the ice, canucks have scored 34.1% of the goals 5on5. they have score more than 50% of goals without him.

for example, NJ devils scored 35.9% of goals in 11-12 season... in 4on5 pk.

that kind of results one would expect from career AHLer or something.

or like those +/- that Z4C posted. if that would be his true level, he wont be in NHL for a long time.

some players have had as bad stats; they either improved or were out of NHL, sooner or later.

I think it's kind of silly to take a players worst season of his career, then consider it the norm, then make a forecast using advanced stats based on it.

Think we're putting that a little too much under a microscope. I think if Edler did come to Detroit he would rebound just fine. His play this year seems more like an anomaly, than "the norm".

 

[InjuredChoker]

Exactly why this is nothing but a rumor. I swear I saw this proposed on the trade board here a few days ago.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1602639

I think it's kind of silly to take a players worst season of his career, then consider it the norm, then make a forecast using advanced stats based on it.

Think we're putting that a little too much under a microscope. I think if Edler did come to Detroit he would rebound just fine. His play this year seems more like an anomaly, than "the norm".

which was exactly my point.

i'm saying this is not the norm for him.

i'm saying this is why it's ridiculous to point out his +/- this year.

i used those stats in previous post to highlight how ridiculous it is to expect him to really be that bad.

and GF% is basically +/-.

 

[Frk It]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1602639



which was exactly my point.

i'm saying this is not the norm for him.

i'm saying this is why it's ridiculous to point out his +/- this year.

Yeah, I agree then.

Could be perfect because I don't think he's anywhere near as bad as he's been playing. But then because of how bad he's been, his trade value has taken a hit considerably.

So it's a pretty ideal time to trade for him. And I wouldn't mind trading Franzen, as long as we use one of Sheahan or Jurco to replace his "big/net front role" in the top 6 and PP. Or get a big FA with size and skill that can do it.

If were trading Franzen, but replacing him with Abby+whatever other plug for those roles, than I say hell no.

 

[crashman]

In all honesty, I think Franzen would be a perfect compliment to the Sedin's and he would help maximize them for the remainder of their contracts. The Wings would definitely have to add some nice pieces to the deal, but I really do think he would excel in Vancouver.

 

[InjuredChoker]

trading franzen for edler would be sideways move.

franzen, for all his flaws, can score around 25-30 goals and 55-60 points.

they'd have to replace them somehow. i don't think jurco and sheahan could do that next year, if ever (though i do believe jurco can in few years). they'd have to get someone like franzen from UFA. vanek. maybe moulson. if wings are sure they get one of those 2 or they do get, then it would make sense. and i'd personally go for it.

i don't think trading franzen for edler makes wings that much better team. they aren't much closer to contend for cup imo. better D, but worse F. and only reason i'd go after edler (or some other top 4 D) is that he can be had for assets won't hurt the wings future that much (if at all) and it increases detroit's chances to win the cup significantly.

if wings have to give up too much futures (like they reportedly do) or we have to trade too many players that would help wings so much that it's only small gain or sideways move (like franzen or sheahan and nyquist ), i wouldn't do it.

 

[Frk It]

trading franzen for edler would be sideways move.

franzen, for all his flaws, can score around 25-30 goals and 55-60 points.

they'd have to replace them somehow. i don't think jurco and sheahan could do that next year, if ever (though i do believe jurco can in few years). they'd have to get someone like franzen from UFA. vanek. maybe moulson. if wings are sure they get one of those 2 or they do get, then it would make sense. and i'd personally go for it.

i don't think trading franzen for edler makes wings that much better team. they aren't much closer to contend for cup imo. better D, but worse F. and only reason i'd go after edler (or some other top 4 D) is that he can be had for assets won't hurt the wings future that much (if at all) and it increases detroit's chances to win the cup significantly.

if wings have to give up too much futures (like they reportedly do) or we have to trade too many players that would help wings so much that it's only small gain or sideways move (like franzen or sheahan and nyquist ), i wouldn't do it.

Well it depends on how you view the rest of their careers panning out.

I mean the Wings would appear to "win" this trade over the long-term.
Edler is 27. Franzen is 34. 5 years from now we could still have a very good player, and Franzen is likely done at that point.

 

[SoupNazi]

trading franzen for edler would be sideways move.

franzen, for all his flaws, can score around 25-30 goals and 55-60 points.

they'd have to replace them somehow. i don't think jurco and sheahan could do that next year, if ever (though i do believe jurco can in few years). they'd have to get someone like franzen from UFA. vanek. maybe moulson. if wings are sure they get one of those 2 or they do get, then it would make sense. and i'd personally go for it.

i don't think trading franzen for edler makes wings that much better team. they aren't much closer to contend for cup imo. better D, but worse F. and only reason i'd go after edler (or some other top 4 D) is that he can be had for assets won't hurt the wings future that much (if at all) and it increases detroit's chances to win the cup significantly.

if wings have to give up too much futures (like they reportedly do) or we have to trade too many players that would help wings so much that it's only small gain or sideways move (like franzen or sheahan and nyquist ), i wouldn't do it.

The thing this rumor also doesn't take into account right now is Franzen's injury status. Who knows if he is ever going to be fully healthy again, or, for that matter, if he will be the same player when he comes back from the injury? There are too many unknowns right now that would force this trade to wait until the summer if it were to ever happen.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Well it depends on how you view the rest of their careers panning out.

I mean the Wings would appear to "win" this trade over the long-term.
Edler is 27. Franzen is 34. 5 years from now we could still have a very good player, and Franzen is likely done at that point.

that's also why wings would have to add big + or ++ to make that happen. it makes little to no sense for canucks otherwise as their GM has basically said that he's ready to re-tool.

at least 1st rounder or some of wings better prospects would still have to go canucks way, i think.

i don't think edler is worth that.

i would rather hang on to the kids unless trading (some of) them gives wings the last chance to win the cup with zett and dats still being elite..

i don't consider edler that good or young that i would see it as a 'future move', like guy who can contribute big time when wings current prospects would hit their prime.

 

[RedMenace]

If they could trade Franzen for Edler straight up, that would be nothing short of miraculous.

If I were Franzen and still suffering from concussion symptoms in the next month or so, I'd take probably *ask* for the last compliance buyout; take a year off to heal up, maybe play a little in Sweden or wherever, then come back the next season on a new contract.

 

[InjuredChoker]

The thing this rumor also doesn't take into account right now is Franzen's injury status. Who knows if he is ever going to be fully healthy again, or, for that matter, if he will be the same player when he comes back from the injury? There are too many unknowns right now that would force this trade to wait until the summer if it were to ever happen.

that too. no way it's happening right now as he's concussed. i don't think even milbury would trade for a player that currently has concussion (ok, maybe he would).

 

[probertrules24]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1602639



which was exactly my point.

i'm saying this is not the norm for him.

i'm saying this is why it's ridiculous to point out his +/- this year.

i used those stats in previous post to highlight how ridiculous it is to expect him to really be that bad.

and GF% is basically +/-.

Does this mean all this talk about Kindl being bad is not true. He's a + 4 career wise in the NHL.

 

[crashman]

trading franzen for edler would be sideways move.

franzen, for all his flaws, can score around 25-30 goals and 55-60 points.

they'd have to replace them somehow. i don't think jurco and sheahan could do that next year, if ever (though i do believe jurco can in few years). they'd have to get someone like franzen from UFA. vanek. maybe moulson. if wings are sure they get one of those 2 or they do get, then it would make sense. and i'd personally go for it.

i don't think trading franzen for edler makes wings that much better team. they aren't much closer to contend for cup imo. better D, but worse F. and only reason i'd go after edler (or some other top 4 D) is that he can be had for assets won't hurt the wings future that much (if at all) and it increases detroit's chances to win the cup significantly.

if wings have to give up too much futures (like they reportedly do) or we have to trade too many players that would help wings so much that it's only small gain or sideways move (like franzen or sheahan and nyquist ), i wouldn't do it.

Ales Hemsky or Vanek. I'd go with Hemsky because he'd sign for less years and cheaper. He could be act as a bridge until some of our prospects like Jurco and Mantha are ready for full-time top 6 duties.

 

[TatarTangle]

Surprised people are talking about Franzen being bought out because it's a rather taboo subject. Because, you know, he was awesome in the playoffs ten years ago.

 

[crashman]

Surprised people are talking about Franzen being bought out because it's a rather taboo subject. Because, you know, he was awesome in the playoffs ten years ago.

I think there's a good chance it happens as well, but there are some people here that act like it's not even a possibility. Every player that's been in Babcock's doghouse at some point is gone (Hudler, Filppula, Leino, Brunner), except for Franzen. Granted, they all had expiring contracts, but I think Cleary being waived and Franzen being bought out are real possibilities.

 

[shultzyfeelinirie20]

what about fedor tyutin form the jackets>? i would love him on our D dunno what it would cost though or i know this is a long shot but a christian ehrhoff or tobis enstrom D i would be willing to deal a couple good prospects/picks/players for them.

 

[Brandel*]

i want zidlicky