Poll: If you had to decide now: Would you extend Kyle Dubas or let him walk ?

[ToneDog]

A minimum of 6 playoff wins is needed for me to extend him.

 

[Ciao]

Exactly, the contracts he gave to RFA’s were ridiculous, Marner and Mathews alone would have been 8 1st round picks if they tried to get those deals somewhere else. Coupled with our own 1sts over the last 5 years, we’d have one heck of a team today. A good GM would have given both much less and had the space to add stars.

Just think. The Leafs could be Arizona.

No Matthews. No Marner. Eight additional first-round picks.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

LeBrun was saying on Overdrive earlier that he has no inside knowledge as far as the Leafs go, as to whether or not they are going to sign Dubas to an extension or not. Still thinks it's dependent on our playoff results.

But he said from talking to other GMs around the league, they think Leafs brass would be stupid not to resign him.

Of course other GMs would say that. He's the "competition" that continues to ice an underachieving playoff team.

 

[Confucius]

Just think. The Leafs could be Arizona.

No Matthews. No Marner. Eight additional first-round picks.

3 seasons from now we will be worse than Arizona. You can bet on it, bottom 5 with no 1st round picks.

 

[Buds17]

3 seasons from now we will be worse than Arizona. You can bet on it, bottom 5 with no 1st round picks.

Did we win a Cup?

 

[Mess]

A minimum of 6 playoff wins is needed for me to extend him.

5 years on the job and 1 playoff round series win is not a high bar to set for a ceiling and extension, as that is the minimum bar set for the floor by many in Leaf Nation.

Or former GM whom Dubas replaced has won 8 playoff series (including 2 final 4 appearances) and won Exec of year twice during that same time.

In Toronto failure is viewed as success and an acceptable outcome, as long as you qualify for the playoffs essentially, but that is what 1/2 the league teams achieve as their floor for any season.

Every team plays 82 games a season minimum, and Leafs play 89 or less and that is good enough to extend him.. Don't understand why Leaf Nation doesn't want or demand better?

This is a big year for Dubas, in a results oriented business and I'm glad MLSE is making him earn an extension and not rewarding failure. If the Leafs don't win at least 1 round as you suggest, then convincing fans that Dubas earned a new contract would be a hard sell, unless it was sold with a Keefe firing for failure and they keep the GM and replace the coach only.

 

[Racer88]

The high of the trade deadline has passed. I think the team is at a place little different than last season when the 1st round match up felt like a toss up. McCabe is in place of Muzzin, Schenn is in place of Lybushkin, the goaltending is pretty decent but the opponent has a stud in goal. The bottom half of the forward lines is better on paper but this year Matthews isn't a Rocket Richard candidate for whatever reason.

In reality if they win that 1st round series, Shanahan stays and he gets an extension offer. IMO a single series should not be enough. It will have taken a lot of over-extending at the trade deadline just to get that 1 series win. The longer term of the past 5 seasons have to factor in. Nothing short of a conference final appearance (with a competitive showing in that series) should save Shanahan et al. This was supposed to be a championship caliber roster for the past 5 seasons, one measly series win doesn't cut it.

Agreed. Conference final or clean house.
new GM, new coach and start retooling to expensive 4

 

[Confucius]

Did we win a Cup?

Well if we did it was an upset and luck, but as I said before that is no different than any other team, 80% of the time.

 

[Buds17]

Well if we did it was an upset and luck, but as I said before that is no different than any other team, 80% of the time.

I assuredly won't be questioning a Cup win by the Leafs in any way, shape or form. That Cup win would at least soften the blow of the team not having much of a present or future though.

 

[Mess]

3 seasons from now we will be worse than Arizona. You can bet on it, bottom 5 with no 1st round picks.

Look at the New Jersey Devils for example .. 5 X straight years of missing the playoffs, and drafting early and Leafs 5 straight lost in round #1.

NHL standings 2022-23

Even Seattle without any star players and just a 2nd year expansion team built off of other teams castoffs is only 6 points behind Toronto in the current standings. So the regular season results certainl;y not a reason for a Dubas extension. With Seattle and Toronto the only 2 teams never to win a playoff round in Salary Cap era, there could be a situation this year where even an expansion team can achieve more than Dubas who inherited Matthews, Marner , Nylander , Reilly etc.

So while the Leafs are spinning their wheels trapped in neutral and going no further than when Dubas inherited the team 105 point team that lost in game #7 in round #1 the rest of the league particularly those in the rear-view mirror are making huge competitive strides. Dubas mortgaging the future in terms of picks to win NOW is only decreasing the distance between the Haves and Have Nots, with each passing season.

 

[Confucius]

Look at the New Jersey Devils for example .. 5 X straight years of missing the playoffs, and drafting early and Leafs 5 straight lost in round #1.

NHL standings 2022-23

View attachment 667099

Even Seattle without any star players and just a 2nd year expansion team built off of other teams castoffs is only 6 points behind Toronto in the current standings. So the regular season results no a reason for a Dubas extension. With Seattle and Toronto the only 2 teams never to win a playoff round in Salary Cap era, there could be a situation this year where even an expansion team can achieve more than Dubas who inherited Matthews, Marner , Nylander , Reilly etc.

So while the Leafs are spinning their wheels trapped in neutral and going no further than when Dubas inherited the team 105 point team that lost in game #7 in round #1 the rest of the league particularly those in the rear-view mirror are making huge competitive strides. Dubas mortgaging the future in terms of picks to win NOW is only decreasing the distance between the Haves and Have Nots, with each passing season.

Well if he had won a Presidents trophy at least once I’d cut him some slack about the crapshoot playoffs. Lol!

 

[Mess]

Well if he had won a Presidents trophy at least once I’d cut him some slack about the crapshoot playoffs. Lol!

Leafs have wasted the last 4 1/2 years watching a naive inexperienced Dubas ice his skilled speed skating team that produces good regular season results only to bring a knife to a gun fight when the playoffs begin and everything changes particularly physically, and his flawed strategy is exposed with early departures.

Then suddenly this year like a magic light bulb went off his in head with his career and job on the line in Toronto he mercifully, finally, swaps out 1/3 his roster bringing in 6 new players at the TD, abandons his figure skating team beliefs for now a playoff style hockey team built that for the VERY 1st time that has given the team a REAL chance to succeed. IMO

Shanny (perhaps directed by MLSE BOD) essentially putting a gun to Dubas head, saying this is your last chance to earn that contract, has seen Dubas pull a 180 and capitulated to what Leafs nation fans has been asking for in terms of type of players needed to get the Leafs over the hump, or get him the hell out of here out, for a real GM that can.

If it works this year, then Dubas can have his extension, and Leafs Nation not only gets to finally soak in the teams playoff success that hasn't happened since 2004, but also administer a loud and vocal "I told you so" and "WTF took you so long to understand" ...

For the 1st time since Dubas took over I am excited to see what this team is capable of when its stars are surrounded and insulated with a proper supporting cast to believe playoff success is a real possibility, with only his choices of goaltending giving me some lingering doubt it will happen.

 

[Osmows OReilly]

You know what annoys me the most? The Toronto media that worships him relentlessly. I was watching SDPN with Jesse, Adam Wylde and Dangle and they parrot the EXACT same talking points people on here say:



“Muh cap”

“Muh farm”

“Muh age”

“Muh regular season”

Etc, etc

 

[Confucius]

Leafs have wasted the last 4 1/2 years watching a naive inexperienced Dubas ice his skilled speed skating team that produces good regular season results only to bring a knife to a gun fight when the playoffs begin and everything changes particularly physically, and his flawed strategy is exposed with early departures.

Then suddenly this year like a magic light bulb went off his in head with his career and job on the line in Toronto he mercifully, finally, swaps out 1/3 his roster bringing in 6 new players at the TD, abandons his figure skating team beliefs for now a playoff style hockey team built that for the VERY 1st time that has give the team a REAL chance to succeed. IMO

Shanny (perhaps directed by MLSE BOD) essentially putting a gun to Dubas head, saying this is your last chance to earn that contract, has seen Dubas pull a 180 and capitulated to what Leafs nation fans has been asking for in terms of type of players needed to get the Leafs over the hump, or get him the hell out of here out, for a real GM that can.

If it works this year, then Dubas can have his extension, and Leafs Nation not only gets to finally soak in the teams playoff success that hasn't happened since 2004, but also administer a load and vocal "I told you so" and "WTF took you so long to understand" ...

For the 1st time since Dubas took over am I excited to see what this team is capable of when its stars are surrounded and insulated with a proper supporting cast to believe playoff success is a real possibility, with only his choices of goaltending giving me some lingering doubt it will happen.

Well there is hope but as luck would have it this season, we aren’t good enough to beat Boston (3 regulation home losses all season). I think they believe 1st place is locked up already and they will be cruising the rest of the season. So realistically we may beat Tampa, will that warrant an extension for everybody? I’d say no but I may be in the minority, which is fine by me.

 

[myleafs]

Pierre going with the not-so-subtle clickbait photo for his latest article.

Id be very curious to see how Dubas would do with a tire fire team like the flyers. He took over a 105 pt team with young superstars on the rise in Toronto which I kinda feel like a chair could have had some success with what he started with so Id like to see what he would do with a team from scratch that sucks. ps...I think he would fail. And I was a big Dubas supporter when he started. Still think he is a nice guy and I would love to work for a boss like him but I have not been a fan of how he views the game and what he thinks will win the big prize.

 

[ToneDog]

5 years on the job and 1 playoff round series win is not a high bar to set for a ceiling and extension, as that is the minimum bar set for the floor by many in Leaf Nation.

Our former GM whom Dubas replaced has won 8 playoff series (including 2 final 4 appearances) and won Exec of year twice during that same time.

In Toronto failure is viewed as success and an acceptable outcome, as long as you qualify for the playoffs essentially, but that is what 1/2 the league teams achieve as their floor for any season.

Every team plays 82 games a season minimum, and Leafs play 89 or less and that is good enough to extend him.. Don't understand why Leaf Nation doesn't want or demand better?

This is a big year for Dubas, in a results oriented business and I'm glad MLSE is making him earn an extension and not rewarding failure. If the Leafs don't win at least 1 round as you suggest, then convincing fans that Dubas earned a new contract would be a hard sell, unless it was sold with a Keefe firing for failure and they keep the GM and replace the coach only.

I cannot see them not resigning him after 5 successful regular seasons if they beat Tampa. Personally, If that is the bar, I'd rather see them lose to Tampa and have him walk than lose to Boston and see him extended. I said 6 games because the Bruins are special this year and as such, Leafs are heavy dogs to beat them, but beating Tampa and being swept or only winning a game against the Bruins would be another failure in my eyes.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

What they've accomplished is they've played better, much better in fact and as a result the team is much, much better defensively. You called them "cruddy", they're far from cruddy and calling them that is insulting.

Your argument seems to be that they haven't won anything. By that logic they're all cruddy, Matthews, Marner, Nylander, every player on the team, Keefe, Dubas, Shanahan, the guys that hired Shanahan, all of them. If that's what you think then any discussion with you is pointless.

As far as asking you to be satisfied with these "record breaking seasons", stop quoting me and spewing this nonsense. I'm not satisfied, I never asked you or anyone else to be satisfied, I want playoff success and I think the people bragging about record breaking Novembers, or point streaks or whatever else are embarrassing themselves. I don't think that justifies labelling good players "cruddy" though which was what my post said to begin with.

How have they played better? What makes them so great?

They haven't won a damn thing still.

How can you sit there and say these guys are better when they have accomplished the exact same thing as the group of losers that were breaking regular season records and going out in the first round under Babcock?

 

[TheRumble]

I love this forum.

Using Seattle - a team that got 30 teams in the league to give them a player for free, as an example of how to build a team.

Then you have several other users advocating that we stockpile draft picks as a 110+ point team. Just utter stupidity.

 

[Lemontree]

I love this forum.

Using Seattle - a team that got 30 teams in the league to give them a player for free, as an example of how to build a team.

Then you have several other users advocating that we stockpile draft picks as a 110+ point team. Just utter stupidity.

That's not how you build a team...in fact, Seattle management hasn't had a chance to build their team (in their view) yet. I believe the poster was pointing out that giving Dubas credit for Leafs regular season doesn't mean much when Seattle is only a few points behind in the current standings and they are a 2nd year expansion team.

 

[thewave]

Man they could just release that same video every year.

Team lacks a killer instinct... We have been repeating that for years now here. Its so weird

 

[Matthews4Calder]

Team lacks a killer instinct... We have been repeating that for years now here. Its so weird

YA I've said the same thing. We are just rinsing and repeating it seems. Never did like the contracts to the big 3. He caved in to Nylander and that set the bar. I know a lot will say the contracts look good and I agree as of today but when they signed it was all overpayments. Matthews not signing for the max years hurt, Marner was overpaid at the time and Nylander for holding out got exactly what he wanted.

 

[ACC1224]

That's not how you build a team...in fact, Seattle management hasn't had a chance to build their team (in their view) yet. I believe the poster was pointing out that giving Dubas credit for Leafs regular season doesn't mean much when Seattle is only a few points behind in the current standings and they are a 2nd year expansion team.

Maybe their Coach is better?

 

[Maple Leaf]

Where is the option for fire him

 

[Mess]

I cannot see them not resigning him after 5 successful regular seasons if they beat Tampa. Personally, If that is the bar, I'd rather see them lose to Tampa and have him walk than lose to Boston and see him extended. I said 6 games because the Bruins are special this year and as such, Leafs are heavy dogs to beat them, but beating Tampa and being swept or only winning a game against the Bruins would be another failure in my eyes.

I know you and I are of similar mind on this Dubas situation and his failure to deliver. Let me shed some light on your post and position to show it from my perspective, based on expectations,

Last year despite having a better regular season with home ice advantage against TB in round 1, what was Leaf Nation realistically expecting from Dubas built team going up against a powerhouse team coming off back to back Cup wins, other then respect in a handshake line and thus resolving the loss, as simply being beaten by a better GM and better team.

Last year Boston finished 4th in the Atlantic and was a Wild Card team, however with changes made by Boston GM has transformed the Bruins into the President's trophy team on a record setting pace. So this year they also stand in the potential path of the Leafs.. So once again Leafs simply showing up in the series is enough to earn Dubas a participation ribbon.

What we're really saying here then by rewarding Dubas for failure, is the better the jobs Tampa Bay and Boston GM's Julien BriseBois & Don Sweeney do in building their teams into strong Cup winners and contenders then surely we can't expect Dubas to outperform their team building work, and thus its essentially the strength of Leafs opposition Dubas is facing that will be the main reason he gets extended, and not his own work and success.

So, if we combine last year and this year's Tampa series together in results in a best of 14 games, and Leafs best case scenario split the series winning this year after losing last year basically its now 1 -1 each, that will be good enough to earn an extension even by bowing out to Boston easily in round #2?

The sad part is that I believe you are correct but for 1 point and that is even if the Leafs do lose in round #1, then they will make coach Keefe the fall guy, and Dubas will still survive and be given a new contract. So really I believe win or lose Dubas will be extended and damn the results.

 

[Mess]

That's not how you build a team...in fact, Seattle management hasn't had a chance to build their team (in their view) yet. I believe the poster was pointing out that giving Dubas credit for Leafs regular season doesn't mean much when Seattle is only a few points behind in the current standings and they are a 2nd year expansion team.

Precisely my point explained and clarified to perfection.

Can you imagine if Seattle actually won a playoff round made up of other teams castoffs, before Dubas was able to win one with Toronto and then people would still want him extended based on regular season results despite Leafs being the ONLY team to never have won a playoff round in a Salary Cap era, should that occur?