Management POHO Staios/GM D̶o̶r̶i̶o̶n̶/Front Office Thread - Part X [Mod Warning in post 1)

[Beech]

This team hasn't been 0.500 by the 20 game mark since 2018? I get that we want and hope for better than that but we also have to respect the process of improving.

Being 0.500 at 20 games in would be progress. Not good enough but still good.

I had my hopes pegged at being slightly above 0.500 by Christmas.

in 2022/2023 by game 20, a sizable chunk of teams (some that would eventually miss the playoffs) were at 22 and more points. and I mean a sizable chunk. The top 16 were at 24 and above.

6 years into a rebuild, in a year of 'this is our time baby' and 0.500 at game 20?????

Ouch.. I mean ouch... team 8 last year. Detroit.. While they would collapse, had 26 points at game 20. The Panthers (team 16..points % wise) had 22.

we need to be at 22-26 points by game 20. Mid point 24.

It gets worse, you do know the NHL skews their schedule??? How you finish last year governs this years schedule. Weak teams get easier early schedule, mid tabe teams get mid table early schedule, top teams get hard early schedule.

So by game 20, Ottawa ill have gone through a number of easy teams and a number of home games..

games 1-18
3 teams from last years top 10
7 from middle 10
8 from bottom 11

I forgot the number but it is something like 11:8 non-playoff versus playoff teams. even though they are one of the non playoff teams and therefore the league as a whole for them is 15:16 non-P/P.

 

[BankStreetParade]

It’s a courtesy. He’s fired either way. Even though there’s those…..6 periods of hockey

Oh ok. So you're just mad and the only thing that matters to you is position in the standings. Got it.

 

[5ive4Fighting]

It's going to be very interesting given Andlauer's emphasis on accountability to see what happens next. Who do they fault for the Pinto situation? How south does that situation get to go? How long does the team get to flounder in these important games, and are they content with "meaningful games" for another cycle?

 

[Beech]

It's going to be very interesting given Andlauer's emphasis on accountability to see what happens next. Who do they fault for the Pinto situation? How south does that situation get to go? How long does the team get to flounder in these important games, and are they content with "meaningful games" for another cycle?

Eugen M died in early 2022. he was sick and dying by late 2021.. So from late 2021, this team has had no owner. no one to look after things. granted, when Eugene was; it was worse than not having him!!!

Long and short, no boss for 1 1/2 years

so
DBC trade
DBC trade out
Chyc trade

and so on, and no one checking on anything. no one asking where is the money coming from. Contracts being given out. No major "out moves".. Only "major in moves".

when the teacher is away, the children play!!!

Andlauer got here 1 year too late.. In-fact 1 1/2 years too late

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

The GM is not the pertinent problem at this time….the current head coach has seemingly hit his ceiling, and has yet to show that he can break through and motive this team to follow the game plan to the tee. Sure we can disagree on the game plan, but when players get distracted by a returning player that the fans voice their displeasure towards him, and they go off the plan to “mix it up” with him, or go out of their way to deliver a “shot” at him…. Clearly they’re being selfish and playing to the fans.
So you would expect a better performance in the next game, and they fall flat, fall behind, and cannot get back into the game.

then after each of these games you hear the same blah blah blah from the coach.

Surely he must know he is on thin ice?

Who hired the coach?
Who made the recommendations to the new owner regarding the coach?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

It's going to be very interesting given Andlauer's emphasis on accountability to see what happens next. Who do they fault for the Pinto situation?

Who? Is that even a question? How do they evaluate how Dorion has handled the cap situation resulting in the Pinto situation?

How south does that situation get to go?

Too long

How long does the team get to flounder in these important games, and are they content with "meaningful games" for another cycle?

7 games before they go to Sweden vs Isles, Pens, Kings, Bolts, Leafs, Nucks, Flames

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Oh ok. So you're just mad and the only thing that matters to you is position in the standings. Got it.

Yes position in the standings historically pretty important?

I guarantee you if something saves DJ it won’t be “the amount of periods we played well in”.

 

[Flamingo]

It's going to be very interesting given Andlauer's emphasis on accountability to see what happens next. Who do they fault for the Pinto situation? How south does that situation get to go? How long does the team get to flounder in these important games, and are they content with "meaningful games" for another cycle?

I can't imagine they'd let Dorion sign a new coach. Unless it's normal for POHOs to hire the coach, and continue to let Dorion run with the roster management, I imagine both would be gone if they decide DJ's run his course. So whether it's cap management/Pinto or coaching, Dorion is on the verge of being relieved of his duties, imo. Now, would Staios be interim GM while the wait for a best GM candidate to be available?

 

[Alf Silfversson]

I can't imagine they'd let Dorion sign a new coach. Unless it's normal for POHOs to hire the coach, and continue to let Dorion run with the roster management, I imagine both would be gone if they decide DJ's run his course. So whether it's cap management/Pinto or coaching, Dorion is on the verge of being relieved of his duties, imo. Now, would Staios be interim GM while the wait for a best GM candidate to be available?

Agreed. I would imagine Staios would be the interim GM unless the guy they really want is available.

 

[Beech]

So if we were 5-1 but all the underlying stats said this team was a steaming pile of dogshit bound for regression, that would be ok, right?

so, you figure a team with shit stats and clearly heading down the toilette, will be 5 : 1 ?
if so, how do you explain the Sens 2017-2023 and counting.

this team should, today, be kicking ass and taking names. There are no young players here.
The first line is ~ 28 avg age, ~26 if you correct a tad for Giroux.
Line 2 is ~ 26
Line 3 is ~ 25
Line 4 is ~ 24

d pair 1 is ~27
d pair 2 is ~ 24
d pair 3 is ~ 28

Many have been in the pros for 5 plus years. those that have not played 400 plus games, have suffered from not being good enough to have NHL service

We are long past, shit or get off the pot. That was 2 years ago.

so what would be okay? start winning..

this team should be 5:1 and with good stats. This should be a 100 plus point season.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Yes position in the standings historically pretty important?

I guarantee you if something saves DJ it won’t be “the amount of periods we played well in”.

It's hard to have a conversation with someone who thinks the 2 most recent games are of better use to evaluate the coach rather than all the games we've played so far. I think we're good here. You're right. Fire DJ and the coaching staff. Who gives a f*** how the team plays as long as we end up with the 2 points more often than not. Kinda like the first 4 games of the season...

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I can’t wait until we win three in a row.

And if they lose 3 in a row?

 

[ToasterStutzle]

I just came here to say, 6 games in I am already over DJ's system. I'm sure he's a great guy. I'm not over him, but I'm over him being the coach of the Ottawa Senators.

Nothing changes, defensive lapses all over the ice. That is the coaches fault. If the players are playing terrible defensively it is up to the coach to make them change. If he can't, time for a new voice.

We've been down this road, we've walked this path and come April when were 6 points out of the playoffs the cycle will continue. Time for a new voice and new message.

 

[Butchy Dakkar]

Of the 18 periods of hockey we've played this year, 6 of them we've held opponents to 6 shots or less for the period.

They're 2nd in the league in SA/GP, tied for 2nd in FO%, 5th in SF/GP, 3rd in High Danger Shots Against (in all situations) and yet their GA/GP is tied for 8th worst in the league.

I'm not sure the tape says what you think it says.

Sounds familiar. Starting the year playing games we deserved to win but don’t. There is something in the way we play that allows opponents to capitalize, whereas we don’t bury chances.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

It's hard to have a conversation with someone who thinks the 2 most recent games are of better use to evaluate the coach rather than all the games we've played so far. I think we're good here. You're right. Fire DJ and the coaching staff. Who gives a f*** how the team plays as long as we end up with the 2 points more often than not. Kinda like the first 4 games of the season...

Has DJ only been coaching for 6 games?

I’ll have to check that. How many games has DJ coached the Ottawa senators. Who knows.

He himself said judge him at the start of LAST season. So. Right there. We know he didn’t start coaching us this year.

Yeah. If he had only coached these 6 games. I would definitely say “don’t fire him yet. Why fire a guy 6 games in to his tenure??” But. I think we both know that isn’t the case here

 

[Bileur]

Has DJ only been coaching for 6 games?

I’ll have to check that. How many games has DJ coached the Ottawa senators. Who knows.

He himself said judge him at the start of LAST season. So. Right there. We know he didn’t start coaching us this year.

Yeah. If he had only coached these 6 games. I would definitely say “don’t fire him yet. Why fire a guy 6 games in to his tenure??” But. I think we both know that isn’t the case here

Judging DJ on two games?

What is this hold DJ and Dorion have on some posters around here?

 

[Beech]

Has DJ only been coaching for 6 games?

I’ll have to check that. How many games has DJ coached the Ottawa senators. Who knows.

He himself said judge him at the start of LAST season. So. Right there. We know he didn’t start coaching us this year.

Yeah. If he had only coached these 6 games. I would definitely say “don’t fire him yet. Why fire a guy 6 games in to his tenure??” But. I think we both know that isn’t the case here

Dorion is one of the longer tenured GMs.. and look at his record. 8 years so far, this is year 9.

So if they are not moving on from him.. DJ is a puppy by comparison.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Judging DJ on two games?

View attachment 757728

What is this hold DJ and Dorion have on some posters around here?

People don’t want to join the other side. That’s sports. That’s everything nowawadys. Pick a side of the aisle and don’t cross. I’m not innocent of this either lol.

But in this case. I don’t know how much more of DJ we need

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Dorion is one of the longer tenured GMs.. and look at his record. 8 years so far, this is year 9.

So if they are not moving on from him.. DJ is a puppy by comparison.

Oh buddy fire Dorion too lol. Although the roster he put together last year was better than what DJ got out of it. Way better.

But fire Dorion im
Not saying one or the other.

 

[Emerica]

Who hired the coach, and why does he get to hire another one?

Dorion hitched his wagon to DJ last offseason. If DJ gets fired, PD is not going to get to hire a new coach. It will be a placeholder until the summer when the new GM and Staios can start fresh

 

[Burrowsaurus]

This team hasn't been 0.500 by the 20 game mark since 2018? I get that we want and hope for better than that but we also have to respect the process of improving.

Being 0.500 at 20 games in would be progress. Not good enough but still good.

I had my hopes pegged at being slightly above 0.500 by Christmas.

One thing processes should be judged on are how long they take.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Eugen M died in early 2022. he was sick and dying by late 2021.. So from late 2021, this team has had no owner. no one to look after things. granted, when Eugene was; it was worse than not having him!!!

Long and short, no boss for 1 1/2 years

so
DBC trade
DBC trade out
Chyc trade

and so on, and no one checking on anything. no one asking where is the money coming from. Contracts being given out. No major "out moves".. Only "major in moves".

when the teacher is away, the children play!!!

Andlauer got here 1 year too late.. In-fact 1 1/2 years too late

So after EM Passed, you believe PD ran the show, and did not report to anyone?

 

[5ive4Fighting]

I can't imagine they'd let Dorion sign a new coach. Unless it's normal for POHOs to hire the coach, and continue to let Dorion run with the roster management, I imagine both would be gone if they decide DJ's run his course. So whether it's cap management/Pinto or coaching, Dorion is on the verge of being relieved of his duties, imo. Now, would Staios be interim GM while the wait for a best GM candidate to be available?

Is minor league GM experience enough for an unknown interim period? How much of the role is transferable management skills, and how much is NHL specific? I personally don't think Staios needs the distraction or the responsibility while he's trying to get a handle on hockey ops as a whole. Depends I guess if they see things as on fire.

 

[5ive4Fighting]

Who? Is that even a question? How do they evaluate how Dorion has handled the cap situation resulting in the Pinto situation?

As I've said before, I don't think we have enough information at this point to know for sure how the fault for the impasse should be divided up. If you think the only problem is cap space, and the issue should be solely defined that way, then Dorion would be responsible. There's some evidence Andlauer/Staios both see it that way as both have publicly mentioned cap space in the context of the Pinto signing.

On the other hand, if you think the agent/ask may have some blame, or if you're unsure whether Pierre is appropriately using team leverage in the long view, you're not so sure.

 

[Beech]

So after EM Passed, you believe PD ran the show, and did not report to anyone?

View attachment 757744

from Dec 2021-April of 2022 Eugen was dying and if my late wife is reflective, you are in a different place.

from April 2022-July of 2022.. a board that was not hockey savvy and was preoccupied with the sale of the team. and possibly the estate as a whole.

From July 2022-July 2023, the team is for sale, everyone is running around like a chicken with his head cut off.. No one is in charge, no one knows what is happening. He is reporting to a board involved in the sale process. Do you think, the board had a salary cap on its mind? or a trade? or any specific hockey detail?

July 2023-Sept 2023.. sale is done, but Andlauer is not yet in charge. So literally no boss.. Other than the league offices.

from Dec 2021-Sept 2023 no one over him.. No savvy owner, with authority. No POHO.. no one to tell him yes or no.

granted the years when Eugen was involved were worst.