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Management POHO Staios/GM D̶o̶r̶i̶o̶n̶/Front Office Thread - Part X [Mod Warning in post 1)

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aragorn said:
I believe they actually offered Tarasenko a lot more money & term which was rejected thankfully & they got him signed for one yr. I think they thought they could have signed Pinto for less & didn't expect they would be asking for more than expected, I also think they thought they could move Joseph easier than it has turned out mostly due to his contract which now seems to difficult to move unless they add a sweetner. Eventually they will get this sorted out, but we can almost guaratee it won't make this board happy whatever they do.
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I'm piling on Dorion here (not on you). If you are correct it illustrates a problem.

"They thought they could...."

They were wrong. Again.
 
HF Reader said:
I'm piling on Dorion here but if you are correct it demonstrates a problem.

"They thought they could...."

They were wrong. Again.
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Isn't that the job? You get all the information you possibly can, but in the end it's a gamble & you never know how honest the other side is or if the player can stay healthy. With any deal at some point one player may end up doing better than the player he was traded for or you hope the picks or prospects make up for the player lost. I have yet to hear of any GM winning 100% of the time, I'm not even sure they win 50% of the time.

In the end they have put together a pretty good team here for this yr, it has cost them assets to get here & mistakes were made, but we're here & have a decent team that could make the playoffs. I'm quite sure there are a lot of other teams that wish they were in this position & they still have two more good players to add after some fancy math & trade. While there are plenty of things to complain about as we see every day on here there is also plenty of good things with this team that IMO doesn't get as much discussion as it should, but hey that's the internet & negativety always seems to be more popular.
 
aragorn said:
I believe they actually offered Tarasenko a lot more money & term which was rejected thankfully & they got him signed for one yr. I think they thought they could have signed Pinto for less & didn't expect they would be asking for more than expected, I also think they thought they could move Joseph easier than it has turned out mostly due to his contract which now seems to difficult to move unless they add a sweetner. Eventually they will get this sorted out, but we can almost guaratee it won't make this board happy whatever they do.
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That's a lot of "thinking". It always down to risk versus reward I suppose. There were risks, and Dorion decided to take a chance & some risks.

It backfired, but we just have to hope it will resolve in a less painful way now. That's all we can do.
 
HoweHullOrr said:
That's a lot of "thinking". It always down to risk versus reward I suppose. There were risks, and Dorion decided to take a chance & some risks.

It backfired, but we just have to hope it will resolve in a less painful way now. That's all we can do.
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My memory isn't what it used to be, I can't even remember where I left my coffee cup this morning. :laugh:
 
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aragorn said:
Isn't that the job? You get all the information you possibly can, but in the end it's a gamble & you never know how honest the other side is or if the player can stay healthy. With any deal at some point one player may end up doing better than the player he was traded for or you hope the picks or prospects make up for the player lost. I have yet to hear of any GM winning 100% of the time, I'm not even sure they win 50% of the time.

In the end they have put together a pretty good team here for this yr, it has cost them assets to get here & mistakes were made, but we're here & have a decent team that could make the playoffs. I'm quite sure there are a lot of other teams that wish they were in this position & they still have two more good players to add after some fancy math & trade. While there are plenty of things to complain about as we see every day on here there is also plenty of good things with this team that IMO doesn't get as much discussion as it should, but hey that's the internet & negativety always seems to be more popular.
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Yes it is his job. To evaluate players, budget and make decisions.

I'm suggesting that with Pinto's contract coming up and knowing the financial situation of the team it might have been wise to test the waters to see what trade could be made to accommodate Pinto and to get a handle on Pinto's demands.

Maybe Dorion took these steps and was later burned. Maybe Dorion thought he'd get relief through the Murray situation in Toronto (if so he failed to see what Toronto might do). I will applaud Dorion if he gets out this situation unscathed.

Yes the Senators are a decent team. Dorion and staff drafted Sanderson, Stutzle and Tkachuk. I concede he is a decent amateur scout and can select good players at 3, 4 and 5. These three names demonstrate your point that (other) GMs make mistakes. How does Detroit pass Sanderson for example (I wanted Sanderson at #3)?


I am greatly encouraged by what Andlaur has done (Slewidge, Leeder. Alfredsson). I think Andlaur will build a good culture and the Senators should have a stable, positive future.
 
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HF Reader said:
Yes it is his job. To evaluate players, budget and make decisions.

I'm suggesting that with Pinto's contract coming up and knowing the financial situation of the team it might have been wise to test the waters to see what trade could be made to accommodate Pinto and to get a handle on Pinto's demands.

Maybe Dorion took these steps and was later burned. Maybe Dorion thought he'd get relief through the Murray situation in Toronto (if so he failed to see what Toronto might do). I will applaud Dorion if he gets out this situation unscathed.

Yes the Senators are a decent team. Dorion and staff drafted Sanderson, Stutzle and Tkachuk. I concede he is a decent amateur scout and can select good players at 3, 4 and 5. These three names demonstrate your point that (other) GMs make mistakes. How does Detroit pass Sanderson for example (I wanted Sanderson at #3)?


I am greatly encouraged by what Andlaur has done (Slewidge, Leeder. Alfredsson). I think Andlaur will build a good culture and the Senators should have a stable, positive future.
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From everything we have read they did test the waters & found that the guys they wanted to move to free up money no one wanted without adding a pretty a valuable sweetner. Yesterday BooBoo told us that Philly wanted Greig as the sweetner, this past summer we heard Sanderson. IMO the sweetner that will get us out of this is likely that Det 1st which no one wants to give up but may have to. What were you willing to give up to get us cap compliant & we weren't the only team with cap issues coming into this yr.

PD will eventually get fired or they just move on eventually, or maybe put into a corner & they work around him until his contract is done or he resigns, it could be inevidable but at the moment he has put together a pretty good roster while still making mistakes or not getting full value. IMO that's the job & you just hope you have more wins than losses, more hits than strikeouts & when deal with people you never know who rises to the top & who may not dispite all the scouting or who ends up in jury prone. I thought the Blue Jays had a pretty good roster & added some good pieces & they barely made the playoffs & were out of the playoffs in a blink. A lot of people calling for the heads of their GM & Manager who they were praising until they lost. C'est la vie je pense.
 
aragorn said:
From everything we have read they did test the waters & found that the guys they wanted to move to free up money no one wanted without adding a pretty a valuable sweetner. Yesterday BooBoo told us that Philly wanted Greig as the sweetner, this past summer we heard Sanderson. IMO the sweetner that will get us out of this is likely that Det 1st which no one wants to give up but may have to. What were you willing to give up to get us cap compliant & we weren't the only team with cap issues coming into this yr.

PD will eventually get fired or they just move on eventually, or maybe put into a corner & they work around him until his contract is done or he resigns, it could be inevidable but at the moment he has put together a pretty good roster while still making mistakes or not getting full value. IMO that's the job & you just hope you have more wins than losses, more hits than strikeouts & when deal with people you never know who rises to the top & who may not dispite all the scouting or who ends up in jury prone. I thought the Blue Jays had a pretty good roster & added some good pieces & they barely made the playoffs & were out of the playoffs in a blink. A lot of people calling for the heads of their GM & Manager who they were praising until they lost. C'est la vie je pense.
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You and I generally agree (on this issue and other posts of yours I have read).

I seem to be less forgiving of what I see as avoidable errors made by Dorion.
 
HF Reader said:
You and I generally agree (on this issue and other posts of yours I have read).

I seem to be less forgiving of what I see as avoidable errors made by Dorion.
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If we all agree that PD will be removed soon, then it no longer matters how feel feel about the guy, or how many errors were made when.

The ONLY thing that matters is what is the absolute best thing for the organization right now and going forward in terms of getting Pinto signed.

I am of the mind that you don’t trade a good player, and a first round pick, to make an extra 2-3 hundred K or space for a young player with no leverage and one season of experience.

This is a situation where pulling the bandaid off should not involve hurting the team going forward by stripping assets, rather, Pinto is the guy who should be squeezed for the year unfortunately, and made right in January.

He can literally take the one year deal, or not play. It sucks, and it’s business, and we’re in this situation for all the reasons, but now that we’re here, we shouldn’t making more mistakes to get out of it.
 
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Maybe someone can confirm but I remember hearing Leeder say on the radio that the trend is that there were 2k more tickets being sold or something along those lines per game this year?

Were there any updates to the season ticket numbers recently?
 
Ice-Tray said:
If we all agree that PD will be removed soon, then it no longer matters how feel feel about the guy, or how many errors were made when.

The ONLY thing that matters is what is the absolute best thing for the organization right now and going forward in terms of getting Pinto signed.

I am of the mind that you don’t trade a good player, and a first round pick, to make an extra 2-3 hundred K or space for a young player with no leverage and one season of experience.

This is a situation where pulling the bandaid off should not involve hurting the team going forward by stripping assets, rather, Pinto is the guy who should be squeezed for the year unfortunately, and made right in January.

He can literally take the one year deal, or not play. It sucks, and it’s business, and we’re in this situation for all the reasons, but now that we’re here, we shouldn’t making more mistakes to get out of it.
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You made your first point in a previous post. I agree (and "liked" that post).
 
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At what point does Andlauer get involved in the Pinto situation...

Having your 22 year old core piece sitting at home isnt ideal for Pinto.

When does Steve Staios step in ...
 
redbrick98 said:
At what point does Andlauer get involved in the Pinto situation...

Having your 22 year old core piece sitting at home isnt ideal for Pinto.

When does Steve Staios step in ...
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Step in and do what, exactly? Authorize Dorion to attach a first to the guy we are trying to dump? Now, the situation we are in was created by Dorion himself, but the situation is awful. I promise you that every team with whom we are speaking is squeezing our nether regions ruthlessly, demanding that a first be attached to the player we are dumping. (And no, not that bust Tyler Boucher - he doesn't count.) It's brutal, which is why the situation continues to drag on...
 
Larionov said:
Step in and do what, exactly? Authorize Dorion to attach a first to the guy we are trying to dump? Now, the situation we are in was created by Dorion himself, but the situation is awful. I promise you that every team with whom we are speaking is squeezing our nether regions ruthlessly, demanding that a first be attached to the player we are dumping. (And no, not that bust Tyler Boucher - he doesn't count.) It's brutal, which is why the situation continues to drag on...
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Step in with the axe

If PD can't clean up his mess, someone will need too ..

BondraTime said:
They don't
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So just let Pinto sit?
 
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