Playoffs or High Draft Pick?

[Bomber0104]

Playoffs, hands down.

I love the idea of getting a good prospect but that's what they are prospects. The stars that will hit the Free Agency won't want to sign with a crap team.

There are far more prospects that emerge as stars than are available in free agency every year.

Last year Zach Parise and Ryan Suter were available.

Last year Adam Henrique, Tyler Seguin, Gabriel Landeskog, Jordan Eberle, Evander Kane, and Jamie Benn emerged as stars.

Parise and Suter cost over $100 million.

Those "prospects" were acquired with a free draft pick.

 

[charliolemieux]

One more HALF year people.

We could have lost this season outright.

Lets endure one more year of pain for the sake of a decade of being a contender.

 

[Hurt]

One more HALF year people.

We could have lost this season outright.

Lets endure one more year of pain for the sake of a decade of being a contender.

No (respectable) hockey player goes out there looking to lose. Why would they care about some prospect? He'll just come in and take one of THEIR spots if he's good enough. It's a dog eat dog world and you play for your team and yourself first rather than seeing what happens in the future with some 18 year old.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Not sure what you are saying here, but it almost looks like you are implying Nathan Macinnon is a bag of pucks or it sure looks like that.

Tyler Seguin was a Nathan Mackinnon once, maybe not even. Bet you wouldn't mind him on the Leafs this season.

I think I stated in the post that Mackinnon should become a very good player.


Seguin is good as well, But are they stopping pucks for us?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

But how low can this team REALLY go? especially in a shortened season? if we come out hot, they aren't going to just start losing all their games.

I'd get the idea if we were say Columbus(who needs help on all ends) or Edmonton(who badly needs another big D-man prospect, goalie and bottom 6 guys although they could just trade say yakupov to get one) but we arent like these guys.

We have a 30 goal scorer in Kesse(#5 overall)l, a #2 overall pick in JVR(who could easily breakout with the extra 3-4 minutes a night in toronto), a future defensive core of Gardiner(mid-first rounder), Phaneuf(#6 overall) and Rielly(#5 overall).

People that want to bottom out keep acting like we're a bottom team. When really, if Reimer goes back to normal(concussion free), we're most likely an 8th-10th pick team, and if we get Luongo, we're almost definitely in the playoffs.

an 8th-10th pick will not help us that much, those guys can takes years to develop if they even end up the way we want them too. A franchise #1 C will only be in the top 3-5(most likely, there's obviously exceptions.)

In short, what I am trying to tell this forum is, we are in a unique situation this year. This year is an asterisk already. The team really has not improved over the summer/autumn from last year, one can argue it's worse than last year.

The 2013 draft is outstanding up top, we are heading into a new CBA where the cap will be reduced to 64M. Teams will be cutting salaries, we will be adding. Given this, with the UFA crop out there, Burke is one GM that can afford to acquire high end talent.

So we stink it out this year, we don't even have to tank because this team is not very good. We draft Jones/Mac/Drouin and make a splash in the UFA market, make a trade on cash strapped teams.

How does the picture look with Rielly, perhaps Jones, Percy, Nilsson, Gardiner, Kadri, Colborne, and maybe Getzlaf and Perry the following season?

Better? Or we can keep shooting ourselves in the foot chasing the playoffs while we draft Jeff Wares or miss out on Tavares or Schenn to finish 23rd where the choice is Cowan or Kadri.

 

[alcanalz]

I think I stated in the post that Mackinnon should become a very good player.


Seguin is good as well, But are they stopping pucks for us?

Would Crosby stop pucks for us? No, but try and explain how having Sidney Crosby on this team would not help us win more games.

 

[Bomber0104]

I think I stated in the post that Mackinnon should become a very good player.


Seguin is good as well, But are they stopping pucks for us?

Phil Kessel is great...but is he stopping pucks for us?

(quite the opposite with his pitiful plus minus)

 

[Bomber0104]

Would Crosby stop pucks for us? No, but try and explain how having Sidney Crosby on this team would not help us win more games.

The level some people will stoop to.

Honestly it makes this place insufferable at times...

 

[Hurt]

Would Crosby stop pucks for us? No, but try and explain how having Sidney Crosby on this team would not help us win more games.

Why wouldn't he? Sid's a good player in his own zone.

 

[Bomber0104]

Why wouldn't he? Sid's a good player in his own zone.

That poster was specifically implying that a prospect should become a hybrid player-goalie

 

[rdawg1234]

Look I want the team to do well, just as much as anyone else.

We had our chance to draft high, tossed it out the window to get kessel(which was a trade we lost, but still got an elite winger out of it) then we somehow lost 15+ games in a row and barely got the 5th pick last year, so yes in a way i was happy we dropped so low once we were out of it.

but really, making the playoffs can do ALOT for this team, actually giving some of these players playoff experience. It makes them hungrier for more when they make it and lose.

So the way I see it, unless we get bottom 5, I want playoffs 100%, both will help this team immensely. We dont know what could happen at UFA then either.

 

[SeenSchenn2]

Playoffs obviously -- but Sean Monahan is the saviour.

 

[Bomber0104]

I find it quite ironic that the biggest basher of draft rebuilds in this thread is the guy with the Morgan Rielly avatar.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Would Crosby stop pucks for us? No, but try and explain how having Sidney Crosby on this team would not help us win more games.

That's just ridiculous scenario that would never happen. And as MAF proved they won't get out of the first round unless he is on.



But the debate in here is against acquiring someone like Luongo(or anyone else who could help now) in order to continue to lose in hope of drafting one player. Instead of looking at the simpler systemic issues that are really the main ones that need to and can be fixed.

But in the mean time further tarnishing the teams image making it and even less desirable place to play. And as I said in my other post we're on even terms now when in comes to UFA's why waste it.


Either way, None of us have control, So we'll just have to wait see what happens.

 

[Bomber0104]

That's just ridiculous scenario that would never happen. And as MAF proved they won't get out of the first round unless he is on.



But the debate in here is against acquiring someone like Luongo(or anyone else who could help now) in order to continue to lose in hope of drafting one player. Instead of looking at the simpler systemic issues that are really the main ones that need to and can be fixed.

But in the mean time further tarnishing the teams image making it and even less desirable place to play. And as I said in my other post we're on even terms now when in comes to UFA's why waste it.


Either way, None of us have control, So we'll just have to wait see what happens.

Youre acting like this is some foregone conclusion that we are so bad to be left on our own (which we are) that we now HAVE TO start buying players from other teams with our prospects and picks to be a playoff team.

This is the very problem that has gotten us into the very position that we are in right now.

Why do we HAVE TO do anything? Why can't we just chill out this season?

What is the pressing need exactly to purchase players for a playoff push?

 

[rdawg1234]

Youre acting like this is some foregone conclusion that we are so bad to be left on our own (which we are) that we now HAVE TO start buying players from other teams with our prospects and picks to be a playoff team.

This is the very problem that has gotten us into the very position that we are in right now.

Why do we HAVE TO do anything? Why can't we just chill out this season?

What is the pressing need exactly to purchase players for a playoff push?

who would we be purchasing? as far as I see it, we are a luongo away from the playoffs, who wont cost more than bozak and a decent prospect.

And the pressing need is 8 years without playoffs, this is getting embarissing. Just get there for ONE year, then go back to tanking next year. We need some damn playoffs !

 

[Rare Jewel]

Youre acting like this is some foregone conclusion that we are so bad to be left on our own (which we are) that we now have to start buying players from other teams with our prospects and picks to be a playoff team.

This is the very problem that has gotten us into the very position that we are in right now.

You seem to think Luongo will come at some grand price. When really that won't be the case(maybe to help your own argument), Or else Vancouver would have jumped on a offer in the summer if it was offered.(which it wasn't)

But I'm talking about UFA's, players we don't have to trade anything for.

 

[Bomber0104]

who would we be purchasing? as far as I see it, we are a luongo away from the playoffs, who wont cost more than bozak and a decent prospect.

Bozak our number one center and a decent prospect...wow...that's all?

Really?

Playoffs?

Then what?

If Luongo couldn't do it in Vancouver, on the wrong side of 30 he isn't about to here!

Dear lord...

And the pressing need is 8 years without playoffs, this is getting embarissing. Just get there for ONE year, then go back to tanking next year. We need some damn playoffs !

Umm...because why?

Because you, personally, are fed up with it?

That's not a good enough reason Im afraid, and one that doesnt really help our dismal future out all that much (seeing as you want to remove the #1 center and prospects).

 

[The Blue Devil]

right, but he said that the strategy of bottoming out to get good players has worked for edmonton. That's not what worked for Florida. Signing Campbell, the emergence of Garrison, and the stellar play of Theodore were the reasons they won the division.

I'd say their poor excuse for a division was a big reason why they won it.

 

[Bomber0104]

You seem to think Luongo will come at some grand price. When really that won't be the case(maybe to help your own argument), Or else Vancouver would have jumped on a offer in the summer if it was offered.(which it wasn't)

But I'm talking about UFA's, players we don't have to trade anything for.

Free agents? Really? That's the reason for sending out our prospects and number one center is to maybe attract a better free agent?

There are no good free agents anymore.

The NHL has done everything they can to eliminate unrestricted free agency and they have largely succeeded. And this is your plan?

How bout this.

How bout we keep our prospects, number one center, and actually build this club through the draft...like normal teams do.

That way...when we actually have a good team...we are ready for an over the hill goalie to take us over the top!

As I've already highlighted before, there were two star free agents this year...but MANY MORE FORMER PROSPECTS that emerged as stars.

 

[Bomber0104]

I'd say their poor excuse for a division was a big reason why they won it.

So why couldn't the Leafs win against them?

 

[rdawg1234]

Bozak our number one center and a decent prospect...wow...that's all?

Really?

Playoffs?

Then what?

If Luongo couldn't do it in Vancouver, on the wrong side of 30 he isn't about to here!

Dear lord...



Umm...because why?

Because you, personally, are fed up with it?

That's not a good enough reason Im afraid, and one that doesnt really help our dismal future out all that much (seeing as you want to remove the #1 center and prospects).

Lmao yes, Bozak is a #1 Centre, Is that what you just said to me?

Bozak is a 3rd line C on a good team. a decent prospect is someone like Ashton or colborne, I wouldnt miss one of those at all.

I know what you're gonna say, because bozak is our top centre we should just bottom and get a new one! but what happens if we end up 6th and all the top C's are gone? just keep doing it hoping we catch a great prospect after 3 more years of tanking?

or maybe we get Luongo, get in the playoffs, interest some UFA's(cause really we only need a #1 C after Luongo) or maybe even just trade for a top centre.

And now you're dissing Luongo, what should we do about goaltending then? Just hope we catch lighting in a bottle after a few more years of crap goaltending?

 

[RoyalGremlin]

Only read the thread title and only thing I can say is...

I'm happy with either.

* but actually, I can remember the playoffs when I was a kid so I'd have to say that wins. The last tormenting memory I have is "YEAHHH!" when Tucker smashed Kapanen and then "NOOOO!!!" when Roenick scored.

 

[Bomber0104]

Show of hands here...

If some prospect junkie was to come along and tell you there's some kid named Morgan Rielly that is just brimming with talent whom the Leafs should do everything in their power to draft (including losing)...would you have agreed with this person or would you have cut that person off and suggested that our first should be traded for a chance at the playoffs?

 

[rdawg1234]

Show of hands here...

If some prospect junkie was to come along and tell you there's some kid named Morgan Rielly that is just brimming with talent whom the Leafs should do everything in their power to draft (including losing)...would you have agreed with this person or would you have cut that person off and suggested that our first should be traded for a chance at the playoffs?

Where did we offer a 1st in any trade lately?

Luongo isn't going for a first round pick.

if a first goes in a trade for a #1 C, what would be the problem with that if you already have luongo?