Playoffs or High Draft Pick?

[Winreims]

It shouldn't be.

The main concern should be how bad the team is....in all positions.

Why is it that Andrew Raycroft took us to 1 point of the playoffs with worse stats than Jonas Gustavsson and James Reimer last season?

This is me, maybe you have a different view, but I'd like to address one issue at a time. Goaltending is our biggest need, therefore needs the most attention at the moment.

Why is it that Andrew Raycroft took us to 1 point of the playoffs? That team in front of Raycroft was simply a better team than the 2011-12 Leafs. The 06-07 Leafs responded to their coach and his offensive minded system. We also gave up 260+ goals which is a good reason as to why we did not make the playoffs. I'd like to give up way less goals, and Luongo would help that cause.

 

[Badger Mayhew*]

You are choosing a prospect of Morgan Rielly's caliber (top-5) or a chance at a playoff berth.

Without Luongo the Leafs are sunk (and will finish low)

With Luongo the Leafs have a chance at a playoff berth (and will finish higher)

You are essentially choosing alternate realities here:

High Draft Pick (like Morgan Rielly)

or

A chance at playoffs (and Luongo and his terrible contract and at the cost of prospects and Bozak(#1C) and the ability to draft high and win a Cup)

We don't need to draft high again to win the cup.

How many players that contributed in the Ducks' cup-winning season were drafted by Burke in the Top 10?

 

[Winreims]

You are choosing a prospect of Morgan Rielly's caliber (top-5) or a chance at a playoff berth.

Without Luongo the Leafs are sunk (and will finish low)

With Luongo the Leafs have a chance at a playoff berth (and will finish higher)

You are essentially choosing alternate realities here:

High Draft Pick (like Morgan Rielly)

or

A chance at playoffs (and Luongo and his terrible contract and at the cost of prospects and Bozak(#1C) and the ability to draft high and win a Cup)

I see... trouble is that we aren't guaranteed a "high draft pick like Morgan Rielly" this year. No we aren't a playoff team with Reimer/Scrivens at the helm, but no one can predict who will finish bottom 5, that is a cluster.

But let's say that it was guaranteed that we finish 5th worst this year, and that I had the option of finishing 5th worst OR make the playoffs and have a chance at the Stanley Cup. I would take the playoff spot. If we hadn't missed the playoffs for almost a decade, my answer might be different. But how much longer can we be content with saying "let's miss the playoffs and draft studs".

Unfortunately most of those "studs" the Leafs have drafted in recent years haven't been studs :/

 

[Bomber0104]

!

This is me, maybe you have a different view, but I'd like to address one issue at a time. Goaltending is our biggest need, therefore needs the most attention at the moment.

Adding a goaltender now inhibits our ability to address other positions using the draft (a true number one center).

Why is it that Andrew Raycroft took us to 1 point of the playoffs? That team in front of Raycroft was simply a better team than the 2011-12 Leafs. The 06-07 Leafs responded to their coach and his offensive minded system. We also gave up 260+ goals which is a good reason as to why we did not make the playoffs. I'd like to give up way less goals, and Luongo would help that cause.

Right...so if Andrew Raycroft was a worse performing goaltender than either Reimer or Gustavsson...yet won more games and almost took them to the PLAYOFFS! (hello???)...the problem quite clearly, logically, and obviously (for a thinker like me) is the TEAM IN FRONT OF THE GOALIE! Not the goalie! Maybe a better one would help...one day. But we have to fix the other 22 players on the roster FIRST!

It's right in front of your eyes! And all you to do is understand how bad this team is in front of the goalies!

And since we are so bad...and so much worse than the Canucks', how the HELL is Luongo going to help US any more than he could do for THEM?

We are a bad team!

We are not a President's Trophy winner!

And Luongo couldn't save the day there for many years.

If you really don't want to see Toronto win a Cup...then I guess Luongo truly is your man.

Me...I have different dreams for this team.

 

[Bomber0104]

We don't need to draft high again to win the cup.

How many players that contributed in the Ducks' cup-winning season were drafted by Burke in the Top 10?

LA (Doughty)
Boston (Seguin)
Chicago (Kane, Toews)
Pittsburgh (Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Staal)

Oh yeah, forgot about them didya?

 

[Winreims]

Adding a goaltender now inhibits our ability to address other positions using the draft (a true number one center).

There are other ways to address those issues as you know. And it's not written in stone that a #1 center can't be drafted 15th or 20th overall. Just saying.

 

[leugangen]

As long as we get one or the other, I am happy. It'll be if we finish in between getting a top five pick and making the playoffs that will irritate me.

That said, I'd rather get a high pick and ensure that we have elite talent in the system.

Now THAT said, I'd lose my mind if we made the playoffs. So whatever.

Also, if there is a year where we could still get a great player in the middle of the draft, this would seem to be it.

 

[Winreims]

Right...so if Andrew Raycroft was a worse performing goaltender than either Reimer or Gustavsson...yet won more games and almost took them to the PLAYOFFS! (hello???)...the problem quite clearly, logically, and obviously (for a thinker like me) is the TEAM IN FRONT OF THE GOALIE! Not the goalie! Maybe a better one would help...one day. But we have to fix the other 22 players on the roster FIRST!

I disagree completely. I believe the goalie is the most important part of a team. You address it from the net, and then from there. And what exactly is wrong with the majority of our players? I think our top 6 is decent enough to make the playoffs with a true goaltender (check out last years Coyotes), our defence utilized under a defensive minded system is not the worst I've ever seen. The major problem I have is with our bottom 6 group, but it's not horrible.

That 2006-07 team was something else. Pretty much every forward had 10+ goals, and at that time the league was set up in which high scoring teams really thrived in the regular season. It didn't matter how many goals you gave up - check out the 2006 cup champion Hurricanes and their defensive woes. I won't compare that team to the 2011-12 Leafs, it's just a completely different thing. Paul Maurice let the boys go and do what they wanted on the ice offensively/defensively, while Ron Wilson was... well Ron Wilson.

Raycroft was not a great goalie and Reimer is not a great goalie. With Luongo, the 06-07 Leafs would've made the playoffs. With Luongo, the 11-12 Leafs would've made the playoffs.

 

[Rare Jewel]

LA (Doughty)
Chicago (Kane, Toews)
Pittsburgh (Crosby, Malkin, Staal)

Are we guaranteed one of them with a top 5 pick?

 

[Badger Mayhew*]

LA (Doughty)
Boston (Seguin)
Chicago (Kane, Toews)
Pittsburgh (Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Staal)

Oh yeah, forgot about them didya?

LA and Boston had one Top 5 pick that they drafted. Hey look at that, so do we. You also didn't address my point.

I think another point that keeps getting underestimated here is UFAs. Lets actually look four years down the road. Leafs make the playoffs annually and have established a winning culture. 26 year old Stamkos, recent UFA and a lifelong Leafs fan sees that he could be what makes the team legit contenders. He can actually fulfill his childhood dreams and lift the cup in Toronto. Think he'll be a little bit more motivated to sign in that scenario, vs. being the laughing stock of the league for another four years while we stock lottery picks Edmonton-style?

 

[keonsbitterness]

Look mom, another tanking thread!

Tanking is interesting to fantasize about, but in the real world, the idea that Burke would purposely take measures (whatever those might be) to lose as many games as possible in the second-last year of a contract where he has yet to make the playoffs and where it's entirely possible he would lose his job if the Leafs were to miss them this year is totally unrealistic.

Whether or not the Leafs finish near the bottom will depend primarily on their performance, as well as injuries, luck, and whatever other events unfold during the season. I'm pretty sure Burke is not using Tanking an NHL Season for Dummies to guide him.

 

[Winreims]

LA (Doughty)
Boston (Seguin)
Chicago (Kane, Toews)
Pittsburgh (Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Staal)

Oh yeah, forgot about them didya?

Because Boston and LA won their cups solely because of Doughty and Seguin. It had nothing to do with Thomas and Quick and the multitude of players they aqcuired via trade and free agency OR players they drafted in later rounds.

 

[Penalty Kill Icing*]

LA (Doughty)
Boston (Seguin)
Chicago (Kane, Toews)
Pittsburgh (Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Staal)

Oh yeah, forgot about them didya?

Ducks, Red Wings, Bruins, Kings didn't win the cup on the back of their highly drafted prospects. You are just making arguments based on Pittsburgh-Chicago once in blue moon success.

You know what was common in all teams? They made playoffs a number of years and their players got experience in those years, even in losses, before they actually won the cup.

So right way to start a journey towards the Stanley Cup is first get the team in playoffs.

 

[Penalty Kill Icing*]

When given a choice, it always has to be playoffs, playoffs and playoffs. Draft may or may not be the road to winning the cup, but making playoffs surely is.

 

[Winreims]

If we keep missing the playoffs year in and year out, no one will want to play here and none of the young players we ACTUALLY have will fully develop and grasp what playoff hockey is.

 

[Penalty Kill Icing*]

How are people so sure of making playoffs and winning cup with tanking and those high picks?

Yes, Pittsburgh won the cup but look at how many high draft pick players they had! MAF and Crosby 1st overall, Malkin and Staal 2nd overall. Spread out over 4 years! So their high draft pick players were center pieces to cup win but look at how many high picks they made.

For Chicago, Toews 3rd overall, Kane 1st overall were key players but look how their team quickly faded away (made playoffs on the last day the very next season).

Look at Edmonton. They had a very good player in Eberle and had Hall, yet they finished last and picked RNH. Even after picking "high draft pick" twice, they finished 29th and drafted Yakupov.

Atlanta, Florida, NY Islanders' stories have been already told a million times.

What Edmonton and Pittsburgh teach me is that if you tank real bad one year, you'll just get worse the next season.


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Now talk Leafs:

They'll likely need to finish in bottom 3 for two or three more years before they make playoffs with those prospects, and another 3 years before they compete for cup. And that too, nothing is guaranteed with competition in tanking.

 

[7even]

right, but he said that the strategy of bottoming out to get good players has worked for edmonton. That's not what worked for Florida. Signing Campbell, the emergence of Garrison, and the stellar play of Theodore were the reasons they won the division.

Nawh man, the original post I was talking about said tanking and then signing a bunch of UFAs.

 

[Lansdown]

should have kept versteeg, got fleischmann, and weiss! I contend that ALL we need is reliable goaltending. that alone puts a team in business. we then need to find chemistry and a system. playoffs by a mile - once we're there, anything can happen

 

[jimmycarter]

drouin.

 

[BlueStorm]

If we trade for Luongo he will improve the team enough to make us a bubble playoff team for a few years. By the time our younger players improve and we sign a couple of decent ufas Lu will be 36 or 37 and most likely too old to help. The better players in front of him will make up for his decline in play and we will be constantly drafting in the teens.
I don't want Lu. I want a #1 centre in this years draft.

 

[Salgari]

Playoffs, come on

 

[nsleaf]

Tank talk again??? I guess only a losing franchise such as the Leafs would have certain fans who think losing is winning?? Makes no sense at all. You always play to win.
Playoffs all thw way! Go Leafs.

 

[James Duthie]

What's so damn good about a high draft pick? We've had several and none of them aren't even helping us right now, just make the damn playoffs for once god sakes, I find it a joke how it's been god damn 9 years the richest team in the NHL fails to make the playoffs every year since the 04-05 lockout.

 

[MajorityRules*]

Playoffs. It's time for this franchise to start moving in a positive direction.

 

[Rielly Good]

I watch to see playoffs. So playoffs.