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Playoff Keefe

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Mess said:
Keefe's only recognizable game plan was that he was going to play Matthews and Marner together come hell or high water, and if that didn't work he simply going to give them more ice time.

This became so glaringly obvious that it made one question if Keefe actually has the autonomy as coach to play them apart, or if its actually Matthews and Marner calling their own shots and the coach is simply a figurehead that stands behind the bench and nods.

How could one go about disproving that theory, if we never saw even a single ES 5v5 shift where they were not playing on the same line in the entire series?
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True, but I get the feeling that that message (play them together) comes straight from Dubas, just like I’m thinking it was the same for Thornton on the 1st PP unit.
 
Donnie740 said:
Hey, I know - - let’s implement a system that’s never been successful before in the history of the NHL.

Annnnnnd - - we’ll put a stick boy from the OHL in charge to make decisions based on statistics and spreadsheets.

What could possibly go wrong!
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I can see how Dubas sold his idea. Since the NHL is getting younger and younger it’ll slowly start to mimic what’s important in the OHL level. He’s studied what’s important at that level there and would claim he’s ahead of the curve. I just don’t think Dubas factored in the NHL playoffs

babs was right all along
 
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m1ker said:
I can see how Dubas sold his idea. Since the NHL is getting younger and younger it’ll slowly start to mimic what’s important in the OHL level. He’s studied what’s important at that level there and would claim he’s ahead of the curve. I just don’t think Dubas factored in the NHL playoffs

babs was right all along
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It’s much MUCH easier to win at the junior level or in the minor leagues. WAY easier. Expecting what works there to also work at the NHL level is nonsensical.

Junior hockey has huge talent discrepancies - - a mix of little high school age kids who’ll never be good enough to even get a sniff at the minor leagues trying to compete against some nearly full-grown men that are ready to be impact players in the NHL.

Same thing to a slightly lesser extent in the minors. Majority of guys there are a few steps too slow and not skilled enough to even be mediocre NHL players. Add in a guy like Nylander and it’s like adding Wayne Gretzky.

NHL is the very best of the best from around the world. You can’t just roll out a few elite talents and tell them to go dominate the league like you can in Juniors or the minor leagues.

Dubas and Keefe haven’t realized this fact yet.
 
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Donnie740 said:
It’s much MUCH easier to win at the junior level or in the minor leagues. WAY easier. Expecting what works there to also work at the NHL level is nonsensical.

Junior hockey has huge talent discrepancies - - a mix of little high school age kids who’ll never be good enough to even get a sniff at the minor leagues trying to compete against some nearly full-grown men that are ready to be impact players in the NHL.

Same thing to a slightly lesser extent in the minors. Majority of guys there are a few steps too slow and not skilled enough to even be mediocre NHL players. Add in a guy like Nylander and it’s like adding Wayne Gretzky.

NHL is the very best of the best from around the world. You can’t just roll out a few elite talents and tell them to go dominate the league like you can in Juniors or the minor leagues.

Dubas and Keefe haven’t realized this fact yet.
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Still think the MSLE BOARD isn't sold on dubas or Keefe
 
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hullsy47 said:
Still think the MSLE BOARD isn't sold on dubas or Keefe
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Having this clown’s snot nosed little kid as a member doesn’t inspire me with much confidence in the MLSE board.

BEE9EBE4-2F80-472D-8F4C-579143A7B667.jpeg
 
Atomos2 said:
The main difference, the Habs respected their opponents. Keefe did not. Keefe was arrogant. Did not adjust his play to account for the habs adjustment. He kept thinking his top line could overcome all obstacles even when clear indications showed it wasn’t working. He was arrogant and stupid when it came to respecting his opponent and it cost him.
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Same mentality vs Columbus.
 
Donnie740 said:
It’s much MUCH easier to win at the junior level or in the minor leagues. WAY easier. Expecting what works there to also work at the NHL level is nonsensical.

Junior hockey has huge talent discrepancies - - a mix of little high school age kids who’ll never be good enough to even get a sniff at the minor leagues trying to compete against some nearly full-grown men that are ready to be impact players in the NHL.

Same thing to a slightly lesser extent in the minors. Majority of guys there are a few steps too slow and not skilled enough to even be mediocre NHL players. Add in a guy like Nylander and it’s like adding Wayne Gretzky.

NHL is the very best of the best from around the world. You can’t just roll out a few elite talents and tell them to go dominate the league like you can in Juniors or the minor leagues.

Dubas and Keefe haven’t realized this fact yet.
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They didn’t even win in the OHL.
 
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Tak7 said:
I may be misremembering the CBJ series, but didn't he make tons of adjustments?

He tried Nylander at center. He tried Tavares on Matthews' wing. He even tried the Andreas Johnsson hail mary in game 5.
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The Tavares to wing move was more doubling down
“They’re shutting down our top line let’s make it easier to shut down all our offence”
 
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Tak7 said:
I may be misremembering the CBJ series, but didn't he make tons of adjustments?

He tried Nylander at center. He tried Tavares on Matthews' wing. He even tried the Andreas Johnsson hail mary in game 5.
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He definitely blenders lines but you never hear an acknowledgement of how the Leafs need different tactical looks to break through a heavy forecheck or being stood up at the blueline or any specific game plans that are thrown at them. They don’t even increase their frequency of dump ins and go in on heavier puck retrieval or do anything with their special teams when things dry up.
 
Stephen said:
He definitely blenders lines but you never hear an acknowledgement of how the Leafs need different tactical looks to break through a heavy forecheck or being stood up at the blueline or any specific game plans that are thrown at them. They don’t even increase their frequency of dump ins and go in on heavier puck retrieval or do anything with their special teams when things dry up.
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FFS, the Leafs refusal to play dump and chase is so frustrating to see.

Especially considering that’s the style that wins in the playoffs. So simple to shut down Toronto by just lining up guys across the neutral zone and let them skate around until they turn it over.

First thing Dubas was babbling about when he arrived in Toronto was how “his teams” will never lower themselves to play such a barbaric style.

“ A cerebral, stats-based approach that emphasized puck possession was key to the Greyhounds' success, he insisted.
"It's not any secret if you watch our team you'll begin to see it clearly — we don't really dump the puck in," Dubas told ESPN the Magazine in May. "We want our players to solve problems and make plays with the puck.”
 
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Why has Shanny/Dubas taken so long to fire Keefe? If their jobs are on the line (in which they are), why go forward with such a mediocre coach?
 
Donnie740 said:
FFS, the Leafs refusal to play dump and chase is so frustrating to see.

Especially considering that’s the style that wins in the playoffs. So simple to shut down Toronto by just lining up guys across the neutral zone and let them skate around until they turn it over.

First thing Dubas was babbling about when he arrived in Toronto was how “his teams” will never lower themselves to play such a barbaric style.

“ A cerebral, stats-based approach that emphasized puck possession was key to the Greyhounds' success, he insisted.
"It's not any secret if you watch our team you'll begin to see it clearly — we don't really dump the puck in," Dubas told ESPN the Magazine in May. "We want our players to solve problems and make plays with the puck.”
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Dubas’ whole hockey philosophy is about holding into the puck for longer and not having to retrieve it. I think it’s based on the Pep Guardiola turnaround of Manchester City Football Club which was also featured in All or Nothing. Except the dump and chase is a valid method of breaking down certain types of red rover defenses.

The 1942 Toronto Maple Leafs actually invented the dump and chase. They were down 3-0 to Detroit and decided to try something different against them. And the rest is history.
 
It infuriates me that guys like shanahan and dubas who have no clue how to build a Stanley cup contending team and get paid millions, they are taking MlSE for a ride, like the other gm/presidents before them.
 
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Lebron James said:
They should be pointing the finger at shanahan. His biggest error was firing Lou.
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I agree .but Tannenbaum has tie domi s ear
Not sure tie is a wringing endorsement
I'm not convinced we won't a new coach
But not till dubas is gone .
He is in love with his big 4 .
He ll never admit he got fleeced by Nylander and marner
 
hullsy47 said:
I agree .but Tannenbaum has tie domi s ear
Not sure tie is a wringing endorsement
I'm not convinced we won't a new coach
But not till dubas is gone .
He is in love with his big 4 .
He ll never admit he got fleeced by Nylander and marner
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Wheres this larry x tie connection come from?
 
centipede2233 said:
Yeah, I guess shanahan thought it was a good idea to let go an experienced gm in Lou and promote a green first ever nhl gm job dubas to negotiate the 3 most important contracts in leafs history. Boy was he wrong.
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Yep. Even if dubas was his guy... He should have waited another 1-2 years. The organization was doing amazing under Lou, you cant just move on from him that quickly. And with Colorado pushing to speak to Dubas, Shanahan shouldnt have felt the pressure to give Dubas the GM role so quickly. He messed up.
 
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the line matching absolutely killed us. even at home keefe couldn't get away from it. why it took keefe until the final 10 minutes of game 7 to switch up the lines is beyond me... and guess what? when Keefe did switch the lines up we looked pretty good

oh well. it is what it is. we need to take this opportunity as a lesson and learn from it.
 
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centipede2233 said:
Yeah, I guess shanahan thought it was a good idea to let go an experienced gm in Lou and promote a green first ever nhl gm job dubas to negotiate the 3 most important contracts in leafs history. Boy was he wrong.
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Lou wanted to go and had to go. He was always a temp

His biggest mistake was being too hands off. Especially with coaches and being reactive. New age management is i dont micromanage

Cam Neeley micromanage. If he had seen the pp suck he would have had a talk with the coaching staff

Shannay needed to mandate that Keefe needed a senior assistant coach to run by situations. What does Malhotra really know. Get a Assistant coach that an guide him as well and take pressure of him
 
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