Playoff Keefe

[JT AM da real deal]

Yeah, the Thornton thing was beyond the pale. It's not like old man Jagr, where even if he's slow, you can't get the puck off off him and he still has the shot and puck skills. This team would've found a way to snatch defeat from the hands of victory regardless, but dressing Thornton over obviously better players leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Easily the worst playoff performance from a Leafs coach in my lifetime and he's got second place too.

Keefer runs everything by and through Dubie so when you say you don't like what Keefer did you are saying you can't stand Dubie as well .. it was same BS when Babs stood by Paddy .. Paddy had a NHL sprint or two in him per game .. Jumbo had nothing to offer team except maybe coaching leadership .. fact was he skated like a junior player or worse (he was not even AHL level) .. and we kept throwing him out there .. time to cut loose all da dead weight in management, coaching and players

 

[leafsfan5]

My biggest thing is Keefe's been outcoached two series in a row and hasn't been able to beat the trap teams

What's to stop opponents from doing exactly this same strategy next year? They know it's effective and works, it's done so the last 2 years. If we make the playoffs you simply trap it up and watch us fail to adjust

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

So far he's no better than Babcock

 

[Mickey Marner]

Keefer runs everything by and through Dubie so when you say you don't like what Keefer did you are saying you can't stand Dubie as well .. it was same BS when Babs stood by Paddy .. Paddy had a NHL sprint or two in him per game .. Jumbo had nothing to offer team except maybe coaching leadership .. fact was he skated like a junior player or worse (he was not even AHL level) .. and we kept throwing him out there .. time to cut loose all da dead weight in management, coaching and players

In my perfect world we'd clean house from Shanahan on down, but I expect another year of failure.

Sounds like Gallant is heading to broadway. Not that Dubas would fire his buddy for a competent coach anyways, but it would've been nice to make a decision based on something besides nepotism.

 

[Carltons Cup]

There literally wasn’t a single thing that Keefe did well in the series.

I’d love to hear some examples from anyone who believes otherwise.

Sure he did....He wore that mask on his face for 98% of the time.

 

[DarkKnight]

That interference challenge as well, wherein he admitted himself it was a stretch after the game. What are you thinking? It was almost as embarrassing as the Habs call, Campbell was out of his crease by his own movements, there was no way it was coming back, I died inside the moment Keefe was hesitating on the bench and then basically said “f*** it challenge”. It wasn’t coming back and now you have a jazzed team going on a power play to bury you. Literally a game costing move, no matter Marner’s additional penalty. Keefe didn’t understand the moment and we suffered.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Yeah, the Thornton thing was beyond the pale. It's not like old man Jagr, where even if he's slow, you can't get the puck off off him and he still has the shot and puck skills. This team would've found a way to snatch defeat from the hands of victory regardless, but dressing Thornton over obviously better players leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Easily the worst playoff performance from a Leafs coach in my lifetime and he's got second place too.

There must have been something behind the scenes. Maybe it was in his contract that he has to at least start the season on the 1st line? And play PP1? Must have been something like that because why would Jumbo get those opportunities but not Spezza who is a much better player. Beyond me why the Leafs would agree to those demands.

 

[Donnie740]

So far he's no better than Babcock

Worse, actually. MUCH worse.

Babcock actually managed to win one cup.

Keefe can’t even find a way to win one SERIES with this roster.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

That’s a bad look as well, optics over reason. I’d say the same thing about the deference to Jumbo, how Keefe could watch game film and excuse what he saw, escapes me..like we owed him something.

This playoff loss looks worse with each passing day, when you digest what we gave up, what we will lose, what were stuck with and where we are going.

Oh ya, 100% bad to value optics over reason but these guys are now fighting for their jobs so I understand it from that point of view lol.

Ya, the Jumbo Joe situation was arguably even worse. Can't see a single reason he played every game and somehow got #1PP time.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Sure he did....He wore that mask on his face for 98% of the time.

Not really actually.

 

[Mickey Marner]

There must have been something behind the scenes. Maybe it was in his contract that he has to at least start the season on the 1st line? And play PP1? Must have been something like that because why would Jumbo get those opportunities but not Spezza who is a much better player. Beyond me why the Leafs would agree to those demands.

I get it in the regular season because of the NMC, but with no roster limits in the playoffs it is inexcusable.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

The way I see it regarding his decision to never break up the top line, against Columbus he maybe thinks he overreacted by playing JT with M&M in the final game hoping for offence, of which they weren't getting in Game 4 until the goalie was pulled. Ok fine, so this year instead of messing with what had worked all year, he let M&M try to figure it out themselves instead of messing with them because he didn't want to do what he did last year.

The man needs to find a happy medium here. Sure don't overreact but he can't do nothing while his star players are rendered useless.

 

[Pookie]

Keefe doesn't have a choice in the matter.

The star players run the show.

There was a great article regarding the Tavares signing (link below). Long, long read but it highlighted what the inner workings of the Islanders organization was like with Tavares.

Ownership consulted him on virtually everything. What food do you want served after practices, what colour should the training room be... that sort of stuff.

It was said that one the reasons that Tavares didn't resign in NY was that Lou arrived and JT realized that this input was going to change. Lou runs a different program.

Not necessarily saying JT was an egomaniac or anything, just that he liked that level of input and it was going to go away.

Enter Matthews. Ice time. Off season flight to Arizona. Wants to play big minutes with his choice of line mate.

Like or it not, the coaches aren't running that ship.

How the Toronto Maple Leafs signed John Tavares - Sportsnet.ca

 

[JT AM da real deal]

In my perfect world we'd clean house from Shanahan on down, but I expect another year of failure.

Sounds like Gallant is heading to broadway. Not that Dubas would fire his buddy for a competent coach anyways, but it would've been nice to make a decision based on something besides nepotism.

Same here .. da sooner da faster we recover from our crippling CAP issue which is paralyzing any playoff success .. Mitch getting traded should happen this summer along with Rielly and then retool with more 1-4M AAV playoff skilled players for a deeper team .. outside Price, or another top end tender like Vasi, or a top end #1 defender nobody getting than 4M AAV .. no forward can make more than 4M end of story .. but unless Larry fires shanny over next couple weeks then we will see a team next year which more than likely does NOT make playoffs and then purge will happen 1 year later than it should next spring/summer .. or in my books another wasted year .. these guys who ZERO clue what they are doing and they are hurting our brand .. and people will see next year that club will have less revenues from what I can see/hear .. sure guys like me will keep our seats, due to license, but we will sell them to brokers and then we will see if Leaf nation fans truly want to pay for tickets .. my guess is they will want to pay much less for an inferior product on ice .. and arena sponsors already asking why am I putting up $$$ with reduced COVID attendance anyways plus team does not command these high sponsor fees .. many like me do it to support building a Cup winning team -- when we see no chance of that occurring then sponsorships drop off .. and you will see that next year too .. always a Leaf but need to sabbatical for a year as I can't throw good $$$ after a bad situation there .. again only care about Cup for me .. regular season is only a means to getting to Cup for me

 

[Bluelines]

That interference challenge as well, wherein he admitted himself it was a stretch after the game. What are you thinking? It was almost as embarrassing as the Habs call, Campbell was out of his crease by his own movements, there was no way it was coming back, I died inside the moment Keefe was hesitating on the bench and then basically said “f*** it challenge”. It wasn’t coming back and now you have a jazzed team going on a power play to bury you. Literally a game costing move, no matter Marner’s additional penalty. Keefe didn’t understand the moment and we suffered.

I was yelling at the screen, don't do it. The ice was tilted in the Habs favor, they just scored and you put them back on the PP? The part where he said , no one knew we would go down 5 on 3, true but you knew you would go down 5 on 4 if you were wrong. When is going down 5 on 4 ever a good thing ?

I'm concerned he's a little too predictable in his approach.

 

[ottomaddox]

That interference challenge as well, wherein he admitted himself it was a stretch after the game. What are you thinking? It was almost as embarrassing as the Habs call, Campbell was out of his crease by his own movements, there was no way it was coming back, I died inside the moment Keefe was hesitating on the bench and then basically said “f*** it challenge”. It wasn’t coming back and now you have a jazzed team going on a power play to bury you. Literally a game costing move, no matter Marner’s additional penalty. Keefe didn’t understand the moment and we suffered.

He was overwhelmed after Tavares went down. He had no answer. He did nothing before the playoffs to improve the PP. He didn't try any of the trade deadline acquisitions. He can't coach at the NHL level.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

My biggest thing is Keefe's been outcoached two series in a row and hasn't been able to beat the trap teams

What's to stop opponents from doing exactly this same strategy next year? They know it's effective and works, it's done so the last 2 years. If we make the playoffs you simply trap it up and watch us fail to adjust

We can't beat trap teams because we are not built to dump and chase and that is about the only way you can beat that system. So, faced with the obvious fact that teams have the book on how to stop you..what do you do if you're Keefe? I can't see him wanting to change the style of players..and we have an old fashioned stand off...we need players that can play a certain way to win..but it ain't pretty enough for Dubas and Keefe and they won't admit that there is value in players that can do that because xGF or something is better with Engval.

 

[Stephen]

Sheldon Keefe has less NHL experience than most of the players on his roster as both player and coach. Just seems so unnatural to have someone so green lead a team with championship aspirations into battle.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

There must have been something behind the scenes. Maybe it was in his contract that he has to at least start the season on the 1st line? And play PP1? Must have been something like that because why would Jumbo get those opportunities but not Spezza who is a much better player. Beyond me why the Leafs would agree to those demands.

I think they didn't have any formal agreement in place when he signed here. My guess is just utter incompetence by the coach and GM. They are too worried about next years crop of old dudes without a cup wanting to come play here for entry level salaries...if they start benching them...they are going to run out of stuffing for this turkey. Dubas thinks because he comes across as a caring GM that it makes a big difference...I think they look at him as an easy mark with his Kumbaya crap...

 

[Suntouchable13]

I think they didn't have any formal agreement in place when he signed here. My guess is just utter incompetence by the coach and GM. They are too worried about next years crop of old dudes without a cup wanting to come play here for entry level salaries...if they start benching them...they are going to run out of stuffing for this turkey. Dubas thinks because he comes across as a caring GM that it makes a big difference...I think they look at him as an easy mark with his Kumbaya crap...

Good theory, probably more accurate than mine.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

It seems Babcock was trying to get the players to buy into a system that would be successful in the playoffs. We (and the players) all hated it because of how we perceived it as poor usage of the core star players. We all thought "Just give Matthews and Co. the minutes they want and they'll score like freaking crazy."

And that's what Keefe did. And just as how I'm sure Babcock predicted, that made the leafs stars put up insane regular season numbers... and then completely disappear in the playoffs. They can't play that way in the playoffs. It won't be effective. That's why you learn the system in the regular season, even if your own selfish personal stats take a hit.

 

[egd27]

There must have been something behind the scenes. Maybe it was in his contract that he has to at least start the season on the 1st line? And play PP1? Must have been something like that because why would Jumbo get those opportunities but not Spezza who is a much better player. Beyond me why the Leafs would agree to those demands.

As you say, what self respecting GM and Coach would agree to this when negotiating with a 41 year old?

 

[Stephen]

It seems Babcock was trying to get the players to buy into a system that would be successful in the playoffs. We (and the players) all hated it because of how we perceived it as poor usage of the core star players. We all thought "Just give Matthews and Co. the minutes they want and they'll score like freaking crazy."

And that's what Keefe did. And just as how I'm sure Babcock predicted, that made the leafs stars put up insane regular season numbers... and then completely disappear in the playoffs. They can't play that way in the playoffs. It won't be effective. That's why you learn the system in the regular season, even if your own selfish personal stats take a hit.

I always go back to the Datsyuk vs Crosby debates when thinking about what kind of plan Babcock had in mind for the Big 3 when they first came up. I think the fanbase wanted the big numbers, the generational label, the star power, 50 goal and 100 point seasons. Babcock envisioned something closer to a Barzal on a shorter leash supported by depth and veterans on the Island or what Suzuki, Kotkaniemi and Caufield are doing this past week on a balanced veteran team.

 

[Bluelines]

Babcock is now the answer to all our problems , eh?

He was once a pariah on the boards, now he's the hockey whisperer, with all the answers.... cool...

 

[Suntouchable13]

As you say, what self respecting GM and Coach would agree to this when negotiating with a 41 year old?

What’s worse then? That our GM negotiates these kinds of things into contracts or that our coach is inept?