Playoff Keefe

[Donnie740]

We can't beat trap teams because we are not built to dump and chase and that is about the only way you can beat that system. So, faced with the obvious fact that teams have the book on how to stop you..what do you do if you're Keefe? I can't see him wanting to change the style of players..and we have an old fashioned stand off...we need players that can play a certain way to win..but it ain't pretty enough for Dubas and Keefe and they won't admit that there is value in players that can do that because xGF or something is better with Engval.

Hey, I know - - let’s implement a system that’s never been successful before in the history of the NHL.

Annnnnnd - - we’ll put a stick boy from the OHL in charge to make decisions based on statistics and spreadsheets.

What could possibly go wrong!

 

[DarkKnight]

Sheldon Keefe has less NHL experience than most of the players on his roster as both player and coach. Just seems so unnatural to have someone so green lead a team with championship aspirations into battle.

Win now and a training wheel coach seems cross purpose. Perhaps our GM is too loyal to a fault, did he force his guy into too big a situation? We saw how he pushed all the Calder guys?

Bottomline, he’s been out coached in the playoffs, twice. That’s really disappointing.

The bigger question is the coach an extension of the GM, way too coddling and accommodating? I’m noting other coaches calling out their players and the world doesn’t fall apart.

 

[Stephen]

Win now and a training wheel coach seems cross purpose. Perhaps our GM is too loyal to a fault, did he force his guy into too big a situation? We saw how he pushed all the Calder guys?

Bottomline, he’s been out coached in the playoffs, twice. That’s really disappointing.

The bigger question is the coach an extension of the GM, way too coddling and accommodating? I’m noting other coaches calling out their players and the world doesn’t fall apart.

Leafs are in an unenviable position. They spent the last few years trying to prove how much smarter they are than the rest of the hockey world. The idea of adding more credible veteran management or coaching seems like you’re setting up someone more qualified to usurp.

 

[Notsince67]

Sheldon Keefe has less NHL experience than most of the players on his roster as both player and coach. Just seems so unnatural to have someone so green lead a team with championship aspirations into battle.

We can totally agree on this. I actually like his temperament but his lack of experience makes him currently a bit naive. Let's hope he adjusts quickly.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

HF Leafs Fans:
Babcock sucks because he won't play Matthews and Marner together!

Also HF Leafs Fans:
Keefe sucks because he didn't split up Matthews and Marner!

Babcock was right.

he was being tough on Marner to stop this Panzy hockey style.

Shanahan backstabbed Babcock, then let Dubas get fleeced by Marner.

we need to make serious changes.

rebuild disaster

 

[3blizzard4]

I know this has been discussed before but I was thinking about all that puck possession and circling back when there isnt a play and the damn drop back passes on the PP and the molasses entry into the zone translated to what? We still lost!!

analytics gave us glowing reviews of puck possession…yeah but so what? We lost three straight to Montreal.

it’s been five years now of first round exists. Two different coaches. Something has to give. Something isn’t working with this team.

Remember scorched earth tear down? Yeah those were the good days. They said we will do it right from the group up. Now we are in cap hell. It’s like the rebuild needs another rebuild. WTH.

 

[Pookie]

Leafs are in an unenviable position. They spent the last few years trying to prove how much smarter they are than the rest of the hockey world. The idea of adding more credible veteran management or coaching seems like you’re setting up someone more qualified to usurp.

Well, they've proven they aren't smarter than the rest of the hockey world.

If you were running a conference on hockey success and innovation... would you hire Kyle Dubas as the Keynote Speaker?

So... let's stop worrying about what it looks like and do what gives us the best chance to win.

Do Kyle Dubas and Sheldon Keefe give us the best chance to win? NO!

Shanahan... your call here.

If not.. MLSE Board... it's year 7 of the Shanaplan. He's backing Kyle Dubas and Sheldon Keefe without evidence..... your call here.

 

[Stephen]

Well, they've proven they aren't smarter than the rest of the hockey world.

If you were running a conference on hockey success and innovation... would you hire Kyle Dubas as the Keynote Speaker?

So... let's stop working about what it looks like and do what gives us the best chance to win.

Do Kyle Dubas and Sheldon Keefe give us the best chance to win? NO!

Shanahan... your call here.

If not.. MLSE Board... it's year 7 of the Shanaplan. He's backing Kyle Dubas and Sheldon Keefe without evidence..... your call here.

We don't need to flush all levels of management because so much damage can be done to the roster and organization when a new sheriff is brought in to pull a 180. It also resets the timeline which I don't think we need. But we do need this management team to honestly assess their vision and make smart hockey decisions to get things back on track.

 

[Pookie]

We don't need to flush all levels of management because so much damage can be done to the roster and organization when a new sheriff is brought in to pull a 180. It also resets the timeline which I don't think we need. But we do need this management team to honestly assess their vision and make smart hockey decisions to get things back on track.

damage to what? Our “success?”

 

[Stephen]

damage to what? Our “success?”

Our roster contains a number of high value assets who can be core players in the future or moved out for other high value assets. The last time they brought in Cliff Fletcher with a mandate to clean out the Muskoka Five and to set the table for a rebuild, it basically nuked the Leafs back to expansion team levels of talent. We don't need that. We just need smart roster building and editing.

 

[Racer88]

Our roster contains a number of high value assets who can be core players in the future or moved out for other high value assets. The last time they brought in Cliff Fletcher with a mandate to clean out the Muskoka Five and to set the table for a rebuild, it basically nuked the Leafs back to expansion team levels of talent. We don't need that. We just need smart roster building and editing.

Would that be Vegas “expansion levels of talent” lol because they are a hell of a lot better team then the Leafs

 

[Stephen]

Would that be Vegas “expansion levels of talent” lol because they are a hell of a lot better team then the Leafs

Vegas has never happened before in expansion.

 

[Polaris1010]

Vegas has never happened before in expansion.

Excuses, excuses.

You don't get many chances in life.

Shanahan had his chance.

He fired Randy Carlyle for Peter Horachek.

He then fired Mike Babcock for Sheldon Keefe.

Who?

 

[Donnie740]

Remember scorched earth tear down? Yeah those were the good days. They said we will do it right from the group up. Now we are in cap hell. It’s like the rebuild needs another rebuild. WTH.

The rebuild was going PERFECTLY until Dubas took over.

And ever since then - - starting with the misguided signing of Tavares - - he’s been singlehandedly destroying the Leafs best opportunity in the past half century for a cup.

 

[Donnie740]

Remember scorched earth tear down? Yeah those were the good days. They said we will do it right from the group up. Now we are in cap hell. It’s like the rebuild needs another rebuild. WTH.

The rebuild was going PERFECTLY until Dubas took over.

And ever since then, he’s been singlehandedly destroying the Leafs best opportunity in the past half century for a cup.

THAT’S the reason so many here loathe the little PoS.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Very down on Keefe right now. Our inexcusable PP and not splitting up Marner and Matthews makes me think he's running a Mickey Mouse Clubhouse and not the bench of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

 

[ZEBROA]

Very down on Keefe right now. Our inexcusable PP and not splitting up Marner and Matthews makes me think he's running a Mickey Mouse Clubhouse and not the bench of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

I am pretty sure i saw him call for Toodles...

 

[Atomos2]

The main difference, the Habs respected their opponents. Keefe did not. Keefe was arrogant. Did not adjust his play to account for the habs adjustment. He kept thinking his top line could overcome all obstacles even when clear indications showed it wasn’t working. He was arrogant and stupid when it came to respecting his opponent and it cost him.

 

[DarkKnight]

Mirtle on LL criticizing Keefe for not giving Spezza more ice time, based on how well he was playing. Again, this shows Keefe’s inability to adjust his game plan as events dictate.

 

[Superstar]

Mirtle on LL criticizing Keefe for not giving Spezza more ice time, based on how well he was playing. Again, this shows Keefe’s inability to adjust his game plan as events dictate.

Keefe pretty much shot himself in the foot at the beginning of the series when he said he's not going to worry about matching up lines with Matthews-Marner, and then he literally stuck with it even though it wasn't working...oh my goodness...the guy needs to take a few pages out of Sun Tzu's Art of War about disruption, deception and taking the initiative...can't believe he got out-coached by Ducharme when the Habs only play was to shutdown Matthews on that line and let Hyman and Marner shoot away.

 

[DarkKnight]

Keefe pretty much shot himself in the foot at the beginning of the series when he said he's not going to worry about matching up lines with Matthews-Marner, and then he literally stuck with it even though it wasn't working...oh my goodness...the guy needs to take a few pages out of Sun Tzu's Art of War about disruption, deception and taking the initiative...can't believe he got out-coached by Ducharme.

He was so rigid, zero pragmatism. Couple that with his inability to get the team ready to start on time (game 5 was literally the worst thing I’ve seen) and you’re left wondering just what exactly he’s bringing to the table?

 

[Superstar]

He was so rigid, zero pragmatism. Couple that with his inability to get the team ready to start on time (game 5 was literally the worst thing I’ve seen) and you’re left wondering just what exactly he’s bringing to the table?

He got arrogant and didn't adapt while the Habs did after game 4.

 

[Mess]

Mirtle on LL criticizing Keefe for not giving Spezza more ice time, based on how well he was playing. Again, this shows Keefe’s inability to adjust his game plan as events dictate.

Keefe's only recognizable game plan was that he was going to play Matthews and Marner together come hell or high water, and if that didn't work he simply going to give them more ice time.

This became so glaringly obvious that it made one question if Keefe actually has the autonomy as coach to play them apart, or if its actually Matthews and Marner calling their own shots and the coach is simply a figurehead that stands behind the bench and nods.

How could one go about disproving that theory, if we never saw even a single ES 5v5 shift where they were not playing on the same line in the entire series?

 

[Aus34Matt]

Keefe pretty much shot himself in the foot at the beginning of the series when he said he's not going to worry about matching up lines with Matthews-Marner, and then he literally stuck with it even though it wasn't working...oh my goodness...the guy needs to take a few pages out of Sun Tzu's Art of War about disruption, deception and taking the initiative...can't believe he got out-coached by Ducharme when the Habs only play was to shutdown Matthews on that line and let Hyman and Marner shoot away.

After the Habs inserted Kotka and Caulfield into their lineup, I recall Keefe saying "It doesn't change anything for us."

Those two were key in burying us in both Game 5 & 6

 

[Captain Crunch]

We don't need to flush all levels of management because so much damage can be done to the roster and organization when a new sheriff is brought in to pull a 180. It also resets the timeline which I don't think we need. But we do need this management team to honestly assess their vision and make smart hockey decisions to get things back on track.

But I get the feeling that, through all these playoff failures, they still think they’re on the right track. If so, they need to go, even though in all likelihood Matthews would leave when his contract is up (which I’m thinking he may do anyway).
Sometimes I get a sick feeling in my stomach that we may end up going through another rebuild/retool because of Dubas and Shanahan.