Player Discussion: Liljegren Is Back

[Racer88]

Starting to get suspicious he is made of glass

I will see your glass Dman and raise you one glass goalie

 

[2 Slick]

Ugh, more ice time for shitty Holl and Kerfufflefoot.

 

[Niagara Bill]

How old do you think TJ is, exactly?

Muzz-Brodie absolutely dominated Tampa's top liners as a top matchup pairing in these past playoffs.

Gio won the Norris 4yrs ago, hasn't played less than 20mpg since his rookie year, and is our #4 dman, though will be pushed hard for that spot by Sandin and Lilly, two kids with top pair upside who dominatted soft bottom pair usage in their first full seasons.

Zeke Zeke, you can't turn back the clock.
I like TJ and Gio, but they are not suited to play high minutes for 75 + games. And as you can see, neither are Lili and Sandin.
There in lies the problem. Lili may be ok playing with Gio, but Sandin has not proved anything yet. Maybe because Keefe does not play him, or does not trust him.
We need our 5 and 6 d that can play well for 18 minutes which will allow Gio and TJ to be most effective over the long season.
Yes TJ could play 25 to 27 minutes for a short time, but we are trying to win a cup...and come April he and Gio need to be fresh.
The attempt to rely on Sandin and Lili's development has not been successful. That is on Dubas and Keefe.

 

[zeke]

Zeke Zeke, you can't turn back the clock.
I like TJ and Gio, but they are not suited to play high minutes for 75 + games. And as you can see, neither are Lili and Sandin.
There in lies the problem. Lili may be ok playing with Gio, but Sandin has not proved anything yet. Maybe because Keefe does not play him, or does not trust him.
We need our 5 and 6 d that can play well for 18 minutes which will allow Gio and TJ to be most effective over the long season.
Yes TJ could play 25 to 27 minutes for a short time, but we are trying to win a cup...and come April he and Gio need to be fresh.
The attempt to rely on Sandin and Lili's development has not been successful. That is on Dubas and Keefe.

Brodie played top pair minutes all last year (like every year) and played great.

Sandin and Liljegren both had fantastic first full seasons in the NHL.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I like TJ and Gio, but they are not suited to play high minutes for 75 + games.

Brodie is only 32, and played all 82 regular season games and 7 playoff games last year playing over 21 minutes a night of quality hockey.

Lili may be ok playing with Gio, but Sandin has not proved anything yet. Maybe because Keefe does not play him, or does not trust him.
We need our 5 and 6 d that can play well for 18 minutes

Not sure where you got the idea Keefe doesn't play or trust Sandin. Sandin played 51 games last year, and the games he missed were mostly because of injury. Both him and Liljegren had very good seasons for their age, and are developing well.

There should be 120 defensemen minutes per game (actually less, since we go with 1 defenseman on the PP), and if you add up our top 6 defensemen minutes, they averaged over 123 minutes per game last year, so I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that we can't fill the minutes. We don't necessarily need our bottom pairing to play 18 minutes, but there's no reason to think they can't handle that. It would mean anywhere from a drop in ice time to just over a 1 minute jump, depending on who slots there.

 

[leafsfan5]

Damn, I hope this doesn't derail his season too much

I had high expectations for him this year, was expecting him to be our best RHD and a staple in our top 4 by April. I hope that can still happen

 

[Niagara Bill]

Brodie is only 32, and played all 82 regular season games and 7 playoff games last year playing over 21 minutes a night of quality hockey.

Not sure where you got the idea Keefe doesn't play or trust Sandin. Sandin played 51 games last year, and the games he missed were mostly because of injury. Both him and Liljegren had very good seasons for their age, and are developing well.

There should be 120 defensemen minutes per game (actually less, since we go with 1 defenseman on the PP), and if you add up our top 6 defensemen minutes, they averaged over 123 minutes per game last year, so I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that we can't fill the minutes. We don't necessarily need our bottom pairing to play 18 minutes, but there's no reason to think they can't handle that. It would mean anywhere from a drop in ice time to just over a 1 minute jump, depending on who slots there.

Winning the Stanley is the goal.
I want Gio and TJ ready to play high minutes for the playoffs. Someone in the organization has got to get Lili and Sandin ready to play...and at this point neither one is reliable to help us win.
Muzzin may be done. Benn is done but for 8 min per. Mete is???
With all you great Math comes no decision who is going to fill those last pairing.
We have no idea who can play there. Sandin has yet to prove. Yes he has games but really very few special ones. Lili maybe. But both will not start the season, and being out of playing condition they can not carry minutes. Keefe has not shown he can trust either one.
So we have 3 dmen, 1 excellent, 2 very good who need to be minute controlled in the long run. Add on 1 with a concussion problem It all spells trouble

 

[Wendelstache]

Terrible news for the kid, he was on a pretty good trajectory last year.

Hopefully, hopefully this is a minor set back for him as he was developing into a pretty good defenseman for us.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Winning the Stanley is the goal.
I want Gio and TJ ready to play high minutes for the playoffs. Someone in the organization has got to get Lili and Sandin ready to play...and at this point neither one is reliable to help us win.
Muzzin may be done. Benn is done but for 8 min per. Mete is???
With all you great Math comes no decision who is going to fill those last pairing.
We have no idea who can play there. Sandin has yet to prove. Yes he has games but really very few special ones. Lili maybe. But both will not start the season, and being out of playing condition they can not carry minutes. Keefe has not shown he can trust either one.
So we have 3 dmen, 1 excellent, 2 very good who need to be minute controlled in the long run. Add on 1 with a concussion problem It all spells trouble

Winning the Stanley Cup is the goal.
There's no reason to think Giordano or Brodie won't be ready for significant minutes in the playoffs. Both played over 20 minutes a night last playoffs.
Both Sandin and Liljegren are developing well, reliable, and are fully capable of handling their role and minutes, if not more. There's no reason to think Keefe doesn't have trust in them.
Muzzin is not remotely close to "done". He's coming off a great playoffs on the top shutdown pairing.
Benn and Mete are extras, and better extras than a lot of teams have.
We have 7 quality NHL defensemen (Rielly, Brodie, Muzzin, Giordano, Holl, Sandin, Liljegren); all of which are fully capable of handling their role, and most are capable of handling even more than their role on this team. That doesn't spell trouble. It spells one of the best defensive teams in the league, like we were last year with mostly these same players.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Winning the Stanley Cup is the goal.
There's no reason to think Giordano or Brodie won't be ready for significant minutes in the playoffs. Both played over 20 minutes a night last playoffs.
Both Sandin and Liljegren are developing well, reliable, and are fully capable of handling their role and minutes, if not more. There's no reason to think Keefe doesn't have trust in them.
Muzzin is not remotely close to "done". He's coming off a great playoffs on the top shutdown pairing.
Benn and Mete are extras, and better extras than a lot of teams have.
We have 7 quality NHL defensemen (Rielly, Brodie, Muzzin, Giordano, Holl, Sandin, Liljegren); all of which are fully capable of handling their role, and most are capable of handling even more than their role on this team. That doesn't spell trouble. It spells one of the best defensive teams in the league, like we were last year with mostly these same players.

7 quality NHL dmen...2 are totally unproven, which is being positive because they in fact have proven unready.
Holl???
Muzzin going down fast
TJ and Gio need time limits
Our d is often on its own, this is not a defensive team.
I hope you are right, I suspect you are wrong....

 

[Dekes For Days]

7 quality NHL dmen...2 are totally unproven, which is being positive because they in fact have proven unready.
Holl???
Muzzin going down fast
TJ and Gio need time limits
Our d is often on its own, this is not a defensive team.

Nobody has "proven unready". Both Sandin and Liljegren are proven NHL defensemen, and they both had very good first full seasons in the NHL, with a lot of potential for growth.
Not sure why you put question marks next to Holl.
Muzzin is not "going down fast". He's coming off a great playoffs on the top shutdown pairing.
Brodie does not need time limits. Nothing has ever indicated that Brodie needs time limits. He played over 21 minutes a night for 82 games last season, and then played even more per night in the playoffs, on a top shutdown pairing.
Giordano may not be able to play top pairing minutes like he used to, but he doesn't need to on this team, and he still played over 20 minutes a night last year and playoffs.
This was one of the best defensive teams in the league last year, and it only looks better this year.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Nobody has "proven unready". Both Sandin and Liljegren are proven NHL defensemen, and they both had very good first full seasons in the NHL, with a lot of potential for growth.
Not sure why you put question marks next to Holl.
Muzzin is not "going down fast". He's coming off a great playoffs on the top shutdown pairing.
Brodie does not need time limits. Nothing has ever indicated that Brodie needs time limits. He played over 21 minutes a night for 82 games last season, and then played even more per night in the playoffs, on a top shutdown pairing.
Giordano may not be able to play top pairing minutes like he used to, but he doesn't need to on this team, and he still played over 20 minutes a night last year and playoffs.
This was one of the best defensive teams in the league last year, and it only looks better this year.

Guess we disagree. Sandin has proved nothing. Lili only slightly better. You cannot win a cup with potential...

 

[Dekes For Days]

Guess we disagree. Sandin has proved nothing. Lili only slightly better. You cannot win a cup with potential...

You don't need 6 Norris defensemen to win the cup. Both Sandin and Liljegren have established themselves as NHL defensemen, and both have proven an ability to handle the role that is being asked of them this year, if not more.

You seem to have this weird idea that everybody young is useless, and everybody older than 30 is falling apart.

 

[Niagara Bill]

You don't need 6 Norris defensemen to win the cup. Both Sandin and Liljegren have established themselves as NHL defensemen, and both have proven an ability to handle the role that is being asked of them this year, if not more.

You seem to have this weird idea that everybody young is useless, and everybody older than 30 is falling apart.

Ok dekes, gloves off. Drop em if you have the guts.
You are weird to think our d of last year was capable of winning a cup. It was not, it did not even come remotley close and nothing has changed except older for some, injuries for some and no preseason for the two weakest members.
55 yrs.
These guys are not Horton, Stanley, Brewer and Baun and Hillman and Pronovost.
So I am glad for you that you see this years defensive with your sweater pulled over your head, but when you visor clears you will see you had your butt kicked.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You are weird to think our d of last year was capable of winning a cup. It was not, it did not even come remotley close and nothing has changed except older for some, injuries for some and no preseason for the two weakest members.

It's weird to think our D last year wasn't capable of winning a cup, when we were one of the top defensive teams in the league last year by pretty much every measure, and it's really only gotten better since then, with a full year of Giordano replacing Dermott and an extra year of experience for Sandin and Liljegren.

 

[kb]

It's weird to think our D last year wasn't capable of winning a cup, when we were one of the top defensive teams in the league last year by pretty much every measure, and it's really only gotten better since then, with a full year of Giordano replacing Dermott and an extra year of experience for Sandin and Liljegren.

It was the goalies that sunk the Leafs

 

[IPS]

and it's really only gotten better since then

Yeah no. If Muzzin can't stay healthy this year our D is in bad trouble. The folks who think a guy like Sandin can just step in and replace him are way out to lunch. There is nobody in this organization who can replicate what Muzzin brings to this team, they better hope to god he can be somewhat healthy.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Guess we disagree. Sandin has proved nothing. Lili only slightly better. You cannot win a cup with potential...

Just curious, how do you expect them to get experience you are looking for? The last few cup winners all had some good young defensemen as a part of their group, Sandin and Liljegren are just as good as Dunn/Cernak were when they won.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yeah no. If Muzzin can't stay healthy this year our D is in bad trouble.

We didn't have Muzzin for 35 games last year and we were fine. He's supposed to be playing tonight so I'm not sure why people are panicking about his injury.

 

[ACC1224]

The Leafs have/had a Presidents Cup quality D. I don’t think anyone believes they had/have a Stanley Cup winning quality D.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The Leafs have/had a Presidents Cup quality D. I don’t think anyone believes they had/have a Stanley Cup winning quality D.

They have both, not that there's much of a difference between them.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Just curious, how do you expect them to get experience you are looking for? The last few cup winners all had some good young defensemen as a part of their group, Sandin and Liljegren are just as good as Dunn/Cernak were when they won.

I want them to get experience, Keefe has been reluctant to give them extra minutes to help the process. We brought in Gio because Sandin did not step up.
Not sure they are capable, Keefe has to win. At this point we have 3 dmen plus Muzzin if healthy. Lili is missing time for development, Sandin is nuts to be sitting out when he has proved nothing.
If Benn has to play minutes we are in serious trouble.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I want them to get experience, Keefe has been reluctant to give them extra minutes to help the process. We brought in Gio because Sandin did not step up.
Not sure they are capable, Keefe has to win. At this point we have 3 dmen plus Muzzin if healthy. Lili is missing time for development, Sandin is nuts to be sitting out when he has proved nothing.
If Benn has to play minutes we are in serious trouble.

Sandin and Liljegren played 16-17 minutes per game last year, which is not unusual for a defenseman in their first full season, especially on a competitive team. Keefe was not reluctant to try them in higher situations. We did not bring in Giordano because "Sandin did not step up". We brought in Giordano to reinforce our defense for a playoff push, and because both Muzzin and Sandin were injured at the time, with uncertain timelines to return.

There is zero reason to think Sandin and Liljegren aren't capable of handling the role that is being asked of them this season (which is not even that much). In fact everything indicates that they are capable of more. I don't know why you keep saying 3 defensemen plus Muzzin. We have 7 NHL defensemen. Muzzin is healthy and playing tonight. Liljegren isn't expected to miss that many regular season games. And Sandin is likely to sign before the season starts.

We would need 2 defensemen to be unavailable for Benn to play, but even if he does slot in for a few games, we're not in "serious trouble". He's better than most #8 defensemen, and we've played worse as injury replacement and been fine.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Sandin and Liljegren played 16-17 minutes per game last year, which is not unusual for a defenseman in their first full season, especially on a competitive team. Keefe was not reluctant to try them in higher situations. We did not bring in Giordano because "Sandin did not step up". We brought in Giordano to reinforce our defense for a playoff push, and because both Muzzin and Sandin were injured at the time, with uncertain timelines to return.

There is zero reason to think Sandin and Liljegren aren't capable of handling the role that is being asked of them this season (which is not even that much). In fact everything indicates that they are capable of more. I don't know why you keep saying 3 defensemen plus Muzzin. We have 7 NHL defensemen. Muzzin is healthy and playing tonight. Liljegren isn't expected to miss that many regular season games. And Sandin is likely to sign before the season starts.

We would need 2 defensemen to be unavailable for Benn to play, but even if he does slot in for a few games, we're not in "serious trouble". He's better than most #8 defensemen, and we've played worse as injury replacement and been fine.

 

[TMLAM34]

Sandin and Liljegren are both able to handle the minutes. Ideally I would have loved to see Dubas go out and acquire a defenceman who can slot in nicely next to Rielly.

Rielly - _______
Sandin - Brodie
Giordano - Liljegren

Would have been nice.