Rumor: Planning Ahead: 2019 Off-Season Part 2

[SettlementRichie10]

Well, you probably shouldn't use the Lightning as the analogy to why the Kings should have rebuilt after a 102 point season then. The 18/19 Lightning are actually a fantastic counter example to your argument because I don't think anyone is advocating for them to rebuild this year despite getting swept in the first round.

Your reading comprehension is abysmal.

I am not using the Lightning as a comparable to the Kings in any way. The only reason I brought up the Lightning at all was to illustrate how meaningless regular season success is when a team fails in the playoffs. That’s it. That’s the entire extent of the Lightning’s involvement in anything I have to say.

 

[crassbonanza]

Your reading comprehension is abysmal.

I am not using the Lightning as a comparable to the Kings in any way. The only reason I brought up the Lightning at all was to illustrate how meaningless regular season success is when a team fails in the playoffs. That’s it. That’s the entire extent of the Lightning’s involvement in anything I have to say.

My reading comprehension is fine, I understand your angle.

You used the Lightning as an example to show that regular season success is meaningless in order to downplay people who pointed out that the Kings were coming off a 102 point season. You essentially are building the argument that a team should base their rebuild decisions on post season results rather than regular season results. If we follow that line of reasoning, then you would believe that the Lightning should rebuild because they got swept in the first round.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Your reading comprehension is abysmal.

I am not using the Lightning as a comparable to the Kings in any way. The only reason I brought up the Lightning at all was to illustrate how meaningless regular season success is when a team fails in the playoffs. That’s it. That’s the entire extent of the Lightning’s involvement in anything I have to say.

Well, calling the Kings 'has beens' at that point is subjective as all hell then, given they were just two seasons removed from a Cup win. La Kings went Cup--Missed playoffs narrowly--102 point first round exit. Guess what TB did over the last few years? Lost in ECF, missed playoffs narrowly, first round exit. And their core players are literally the same age LA's were at the time.

Agreed wholeheartedly that regular season success is meaningless in the playoffs if that's the conclusion. I think a lot of us agree in retrospect that it would have been a good point to start the re-tool. But the point that no GM is going to blow up a 100pt-plus first round exit team at that moment without seeing what else they have. And whether you intended it or not TB IS a good illustration of that because it shows how much greener we think the grass is elsewhere even given similar circumstance.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Then again, now I feel like I'm taking crazy pills because it appears now 'make the playoffs and anything can happen' is suddenly acceptable after years of me taking a beating over it?

 

[KingsFan7824]

That's been my stance for awhile, too. I don't blame management for still trying to squeeze in more run in 14/15 and 15/16.

But the way they went out in 15/16 should have made it clear to everyone that the glory days were 100% over. Their effort throughout March/April and that first round series against the Sharks was absolutely pathetic.

Should have been full rebuild mode starting in the summer of 2016.

While DL sort of tried to keep Lucic, he really didn't have much chance to do so, and they didn't really invest in the team in the summer of 2016. DL didn't even do anything after Quick went down for 4 months. He kept his head, just put Budaj in there, and lived with it. The time to get Bishop would've been when Quick first went out, but of course TB wasn't trading him at that time. They had their own thoughts of winning in Oct 2016. Then DL got dumb again at the deadline, although I don't think many people were figuring on Cernak becoming what he's become so quickly, or at all. Nevertheless, the deal didn't make a ton of sense, whatever way it gets sliced. Other than they were still close enough to a spot once Quick got back, and maybe a run gets them in, and they wanted a more sturdy option than Budaj if Quick went down again.

The roster issues that exist today aren't really much different than the roster issues that existed after 15-16; age, lack of production, and term remaining on the contract. Carter is the big example as a prime rebuilding in 2016 move, but he was already 31 after that year, with 6 years left on the contract. That's a big investment, and as we've seen, the threat of injury was there, and some other team might've had the boat anchor on their roster. Even Kessel only has 3 years left. 6 would likely have been too long for anyone to take for a guy that old. Brown, also already 31, also with 6 years left, and the Sutter enforced lack of production, which was still a mystery at the time. Kopitar had already gotten his new contract by then. Quick, already 30, with 7 more years on the contract.

The window to rebuild probably wasn't there. Maybe a retooling, and getting an equally bad contract to Carter, or a guy with one year left that would've needed a huge raise to keep, or something like that, but the next 20 year old ELC star wasn't coming back in any deal or anything. Carter was just too old to bring that back.

DL did not build the Kings in a way that they would easily be rebuilding again. He took big contracts in trades, he handed out big contracts, whether to Quick, Brown, Kopitar, or even Gaborik, and the core of the team was supposed to keep going as the older guys got phased out after the golden years. Just simple attrition. They didn't have any replacements though. It was already too late in 2016 to rebuild anything. It was always going to be this slow bleed. And of course the organization wasn't going to let Doughty leave if he wanted to stay. Just wasn't going to happen. They gave the Cup contracts to the other 3, and they weren't going to start not handing those out with Doughty of all players. If he was comfortable here, he was staying here, even if comfort shouldn't be the driving force. It was already baked into the cake.

 

[johnjm22]

What kind of GM would want to continue going all in after a season like that?

The Kings didn't go "all in" for the 17/18 or 18/19 seasons.

 

[KINGS17]

Well, calling the Kings 'has beens' at that point is subjective as all hell then, given they were just two seasons removed from a Cup win. La Kings went Cup--Missed playoffs narrowly--102 point first round exit. Guess what TB did over the last few years? Lost in ECF, missed playoffs narrowly, first round exit. And their core players are literally the same age LA's were at the time.

Agreed wholeheartedly that regular season success is meaningless in the playoffs if that's the conclusion. I think a lot of us agree in retrospect that it would have been a good point to start the re-tool. But the point that no GM is going to blow up a 100pt-plus first round exit team at that moment without seeing what else they have. And whether you intended it or not TB IS a good illustration of that because it shows how much greener we think the grass is elsewhere even given similar circumstance.

Throw out the names you are thinking of from Tampa Bay, because Stamkos will be 29 years old this coming season. The last three seasons that would have made him 25-28. I don't see the comparison at all between Kopitar at age 29 heading into 2016-17 and Stamkos over the last three seasons at all.

Throw in the fact the Lightning have many additional depth pieces in place the last three years, with more on the way in the persons of guys like Point, Sergachev, and Vasilevskiy, than the Kings had in going into 2016-17 and I don't see the comparison being valid. The Kings run was done. The Lightning haven't won a cup with this core, but they have been and are still contenders. Tampa needs to add some playoff grit to be sure, but the essential elements are in place for them.

The Lightning over the last three seasons and probably for the next three seasons have it all over the Kings roster heading into 2016-17.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Throw out the names you are thinking of from Tampa Bay, because Stamkos will be 29 years old this coming season. The last three seasons that would have made him 25-28. I don't see the comparison at all between Kopitar at age 29 heading into 2016-17 and Stamkos over the last three seasons at all.

Throw in the fact the Lightning have many additional depth pieces in place the last three years, with more on the way in the persons of guys like Point, Sergachev, and Vasilevskiy, than the Kings had in going into 2016-17 and I don't see the comparison being valid. The Kings run was done. The Lightning haven't won a cup with this core, but they have been and are still contenders. Tampa needs to add some playoff grit to be sure, but the essential elements are in place for them.

The Lightning over the last three seasons and probably for the next three seasons have it all over the Kings roster heading into 2016-17.

I was thinking of Stamkos, Hedman, Kucherov as those have been the consistently built-around pieces, is that fair?

So then you're agreeing they're at the same point now. I'm saying when they went deep run-missed playoffs-first round exit...this is the fourth season. TBL heading into 2019-2020. Stamkos is 29, Kopitar was 29. Hedman is 28, Doughty was 27. The biggest difference, of course, is that Kucherov is younger. He's now 26. We'll still certainly see some juice from him, but as per all your usual discussion, he's now starting his statistical decline, and no one is going to mistake him for a two-way player, so...

The 'additional depth pieces' that are being looked on favorably were also there for LA. At that point, we had a 30 goal Toffoli and a 25 goal 40 point pearson showing signs of growth, and youngsters like Brayden McNabb (who was seen very favorably at the time) supplementing that, just as an example.

"The Kings run was done" is a statement made only with the benefit of hindsight. They were still seen as contenders by just about everyone else, even if the thought was they also needed to add youth and stop giving up assets. Just as you say TBL needs to add 'playoff grit,' people were saying LAK needed to add youth/speed.

I'd agree re: TBL--as I did back then with the Kings--that they have more to give and I doubt their run is totally over. Maybe we're wrong, though. They could fall to earth. Maybe Point doesn't sign. Maybe Sergachev gets a DV charge. Who knows? All I'm agreeing with is the original point that no GM is going to go blow up a 100-point team after a first-round exit, and that we tend to look favorably upon teams that aren't the Kings despite their flaws. It didn't need to get this nuanced, but I'm also willing to bet no one seemed to notice that TBL 2016-2019 looked eerily like LA post 2014 because that's not convenient to the narrative.

 

[KINGS17]

I was thinking of Stamkos, Hedman, Kucherov as those have been the consistently built-around pieces, is that fair?

So then you're agreeing they're at the same point now. I'm saying when they went deep run-missed playoffs-first round exit...this is the fourth season. TBL heading into 2019-2020. Stamkos is 29, Kopitar was 29. Hedman is 28, Doughty was 27. The biggest difference, of course, is that Kucherov is younger. He's now 26.

The 'additional depth pieces' that are being looked on favorably were also there for LA. At that point, we had a 30 goal Toffoli and a 25 goal 40 point pearson showing signs of growth, and youngsters like Brayden McNabb (who was seen very favorably at the time) supplementing that, just as an example.

"The Kings run was done" is a statement made only with the benefit of hindsight. They were still seen as contenders by just about everyone else, even if the thought was they also needed to add youth and stop giving up assets. Just as you say TBL needs to add 'playoff grit,' people were saying LAK needed to add youth/speed.

I'd agree re: TBL--as I did back then with the Kings--that they have more to give and I doubt their run is totally over. Maybe we're wrong, though. They could fall to earth. Maybe Point doesn't sign. Maybe Sergachev gets a DV charge. Who knows? All I'm agreeing with is the original point that no GM is going to go blow up a 100-point team after a first-round exit, and that we tend to look favorably upon teams that aren't the Kings despite their flaws. It didn't need to get this nuanced, but I'm also willing to bet no one seemed to notice that TBL 2016-2019 looked eerily like LA post 2014 because that's not convenient to the narrative.

The Kings run being basically over entering after 2015-16 was held by a small minority. Their position was based on the ages of Kopitar, Quick, and Carter.

If you want to compare the Kings roster heading into 2016-17 to the Lightning heading into this coming season, there is still no comparison. Once again the Lightning have it all over the Kings of 2016-17 with their core and superior depth.

Kings 2016-17: Kopitar (29), Carter (31), Doughty (26), Quick (30)

Tampa Now: Stamkos (29), Kucherov (26), Hedman, (28), Vasilevskiy (25); Added depth the Kings of 2016-17 can't come close to touching: Point (23), Gourde ( 27), Sergachev (21)...and more.

Most GMs act foolishly during as the window is closing. To contend for the most years possible, you want a GM that understands how his roster is trending and when it's time to fold his hand.

 

[KINGS17]

My reading comprehension is fine, I understand your angle.

You used the Lightning as an example to show that regular season success is meaningless in order to downplay people who pointed out that the Kings were coming off a 102 point season. You essentially are building the argument that a team should base their rebuild decisions on post season results rather than regular season results. If we follow that line of reasoning, then you would believe that the Lightning should rebuild because they got swept in the first round.

A GM has to look at everything in terms of the context of his current roster. The Lightning are currently holding A, K, Q, J suited. They should she what comes on the turn and the river. The Kings should have folded their hand.

 

[Fishhead]

A GM has to look at everything in terms of the context of his current roster. The Lightning are currently holding A, K, Q, J suited. They should she what comes on the turn and the river. The Kings should have folded their hand.

It would be the smart play, but there's lots of variables with that.

You can't always just fold and trade guys, there's a cap which makes it difficult. If a Kopitar or Doughty available, teams are going to try and make room of course, especially if it puts them over the hump. But any contender isn't going to be able to add significant salary like that because they are usually up against the cap already, and they would lose their effective cost controlled guys in a trade making it impossible. It doesn't make sense for them. Even middle cap teams have to watch it if they have valuable RFA's, or they risk losing them. And you don't want to give away a guy like Kopitar or Doughty for any less than a stellar return or you risk your fan base evaporating. Trade partners for something like that are extremely limited, they certainly aren't available every season. Besides, the possibility of folding went out the window for the Kings when they gave out those long contracts to keep their core guys around at cheaper cap hits. It's necessary if you want to try and surround them with enough talent to win. But those same contracts make it near impossible to go scorched earth. There's a lot that GM's have to handle, but I think nowadays cap work and values are probably the #1 thing they have to nail in order to be successful.

And as much shit as the Kings get, I think overall they've done a great job since 2006. A couple cups and they are already rebuilding a top prospect pool. If you would have told me after that Vegas sweep that two years later the Kings would be moving into the top 10 on a lot of prospect rankings, I'd question your sobriety. As much as I was thinking how they messed up with some of their bigger contracts, I really don't have too much to complain about in the grand scheme of things. Who's done better in the last 10 years? Pittsburgh, Chicago, Boston maybe? Overall management has been in a pretty elite group. I can't believe I'm defending these idiots.

 

[No Name The Nameless]

If not for a fun draft season I probably wouldn't be a hockey fan next year. The Kings have done nothing to add entertainment to my nights when on the ice and absolutely nothing to draw excitement off of the ice (free agents). Obviously they couldn't and I'm glad they are doing it right.

If the Kings did not start a true rebuild I'd be gone. Now I know the direction and I can get on board. I have worried about this for 4 years. Bad contracts given as thank you's and trading youth for a chance. Now I no longer have to worry.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The Kings run being basically over entering after 2015-16 was held by a small minority. Their position was based on the ages of Kopitar, Quick, and Carter.

If you want to compare the Kings roster heading into 2016-17 to the Lightning heading into this coming season, there is still no comparison. Once again the Lightning have it all over the Kings of 2016-17 with their core and superior depth.

Kings 2016-17: Kopitar (29), Carter (31), Doughty (26), Quick (30)

Tampa Now: Stamkos (29), Kucherov (26), Hedman, (28), Vasilevskiy (25); Added depth the Kings of 2016-17 can't come close to touching: Point (23), Gourde ( 27), Sergachev (21)...and more.

Most GMs act foolishly during as the window is closing. To contend for the most years possible, you want a GM that understands how his roster is trending and when it's time to fold his hand.

Point isn't signed yet, and his signing causes roster ripples. Gourde slowed down already; his point drop from season to season is even more than the point drops that caused people to proclaim TT's and Pearson's careers over. Sergachev, jury's out on what he becomes, he was more protected than Colin Miller for a while there since he couldn't find his own end with a map. I'm being stubborn, of course, as Tampa has more beyond that too, but just as LA was running out of assets, TB is getting there. They were ranked 30th in farm by Pronman last year and have no first round pick next year; if their youngsters don't hit, suddenly, they look immediately like LA, minus two Cups.

There's plenty of comparison between the 16-17 Kings and the 19-20 Lightning, the grass is just greener because TBL isn't LA, and the paint isn't dry on the upcoming season yet so we can't make hindsight assessments yet. They could win the whole thing and make me look even dumber than I regularly make myself look, or they could narrowly miss the playoffs like both teams have done before. Who knows?

 

[KINGS17]

It would be the smart play, but there's lots of variables with that.

You can't always just fold and trade guys, there's a cap which makes it difficult. If a Kopitar or Doughty available, teams are going to try and make room of course, especially if it puts them over the hump. But any contender isn't going to be able to add significant salary like that because they are usually up against the cap already, and they would lose their effective cost controlled guys in a trade making it impossible. It doesn't make sense for them. Even middle cap teams have to watch it if they have valuable RFA's, or they risk losing them. And you don't want to give away a guy like Kopitar or Doughty for any less than a stellar return or you risk your fan base evaporating. Trade partners for something like that are extremely limited, they certainly aren't available every season. Besides, the possibility of folding went out the window for the Kings when they gave out those long contracts to keep their core guys around at cheaper cap hits. It's necessary if you want to try and surround them with enough talent to win. But those same contracts make it near impossible to go scorched earth. There's a lot that GM's have to handle, but I think nowadays cap work and values are probably the #1 thing they have to nail in order to be successful.

And as much **** as the Kings get, I think overall they've done a great job since 2006. A couple cups and they are already rebuilding a top prospect pool. If you would have told me after that Vegas sweep that two years later the Kings would be moving into the top 10 on a lot of prospect rankings, I'd question your sobriety. As much as I was thinking how they messed up with some of their bigger contracts, I really don't have too much to complain about in the grand scheme of things. Who's done better in the last 10 years? Pittsburgh, Chicago, Boston maybe? Overall management has been in a pretty elite group. I can't believe I'm defending these idiots.

In regards to the level of success since 2006, I agree wholeheartedly.

I think there were a number of teams who would have been interested in Kopitar, Carter, or Doughty when they were either coming into the last year of their contract, or in Carter's case at the apex of his trade value. Some fans would have been upset, but it's the cost of being a contender as many years as possible. A GM has to trade for the correct pieces though and make good picks in the draft, then develop it all properly. None of it is easy.

 

[KINGS17]

Point isn't signed yet, and his signing causes roster ripples. Gourde slowed down already; his point drop from season to season is even more than the point drops that caused people to proclaim TT's and Pearson's careers over. Sergachev, jury's out on what he becomes, he was more protected than Colin Miller for a while there since he couldn't find his own end with a map. I'm being stubborn, of course, as Tampa has more beyond that too, but just as LA was running out of assets, TB is getting there. They were ranked 30th in farm by Pronman last year and have no first round pick next year; if their youngsters don't hit, suddenly, they look immediately like LA, minus two Cups.

There's plenty of comparison between the 16-17 Kings and the 19-20 Lightning, the grass is just greener because TBL isn't LA, and the paint isn't dry on the upcoming season yet so we can't make hindsight assessments yet. They could win the whole thing and make me look even dumber than I regularly make myself look, or they could narrowly miss the playoffs like both teams have done before. Who knows?

You act as if I make all of my assessments in hindsight. That's your bag, not mine. I go out on a limb, and am sometimes wrong, but often correct. I expect Tampa to make the playoffs with ease barring injuries.

There is no doubt in my mind the Tampa roster going into this season is superior to the roster the Kings iced in 2016-17, but that doesn't mean Tampa will win a cup.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

You act as if I make all of my assessments in hindsight. That's your bag, not mine. I go out on a limb, and am sometimes wrong, but often correct. I expect Tampa to make the playoffs with ease barring injuries.

There is no doubt in my mind the Tampa roster going into this season is superior to the roster the Kings iced in 2016-17, but that doesn't mean Tampa will win a cup.

No no, sorry. Boldfaced wasn't addressed directly to you. That was a general statement.

I actually very much agree with you re: expecting TBL making the playoffs, I'm just disagreeing on the idea that the 2016-2017 Kings didn't have a very similar view across the league. No one remembers how relieved people were when the Kings missed the playoffs entirely because we were over here cursing up a storm.

The TBL roster going into this season is more skilled than that Kings roster because it's a different roster construction philosophy, but I'm not sure I'd say it's clearly far superior in any way. They have plenty of their own question marks.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

If not for a fun draft season I probably wouldn't be a hockey fan next year. The Kings have done nothing to add entertainment to my nights when on the ice and absolutely nothing to draw excitement off of the ice (free agents). Obviously they couldn't and I'm glad they are doing it right.

If the Kings did not start a true rebuild I'd be gone. Now I know the direction and I can get on board. I have worried about this for 4 years. Bad contracts given as thank you's and trading youth for a chance. Now I no longer have to worry.

This is all so true. I had season seats pre-Gretzky at the Fab Forum and there were years I did not want to renew. That all changed when Gretzky came to LA...but then there were some bad years after the Gretzky to St Louis
trade and the Roman Vopat, Craig Johnson, Patrice Tardiff years.

The good news now, as you say; they are doing it right and the what they put on the ice will be getting better pretty fast - this year there are no outside additions and that was pretty much expected. But, there are some
pretty talented and exciting players that will most likely be on the team next year, (20-12) in Kupari, Turcotte, Anderson and probably Bjornfot. Maybe Peteresen takes over #1 too...and if there is a top 5 pick
in 2020 draft, possibly that player makes the roster. And Vilardi may well play yet. Rebuilds do not have to be these 3-5 year processes any more, if you draft 2-3 excellent prospects each draft, in which the
Kings have, the last 3 drafts. This season should be better than last, no matter what; just removing WD and installing McLellan and all the vets knowing they had better be prepared and play better than last year.
Still, looking non playoffs, but another step forward for the youth - Wagner, Grundstrom, Luff, Roy, Walker, Amadio and possibly adding JAD and Clague.

 

[KINGS17]

This is all so true. I had season seats pre-Gretzky at the Fab Forum and there were years I did not want to renew. That all changed when Gretzky came to LA...but then there were some bad years after the Gretzky to St Louis
trade and the Roman Vopat, Craig Johnson, Patrice Tardiff years.

The good news now, as you say; they are doing it right and the what they put on the ice will be getting better pretty fast - this year there are no outside additions and that was pretty much expected. But, there are some
pretty talented and exciting players that will most likely be on the team next year, (20-12) in Kupari, Turcotte, Anderson and probably Bjornfot. Maybe Peteresen takes over #1 too...and if there is a top 5 pick
in 2020 draft, possibly that player makes the roster. And Vilardi may well play yet. Rebuilds do not have to be these 3-5 year processes any more, if you draft 2-3 excellent prospects each draft, in which the
Kings have, the last 3 drafts. This season should be better than last, no matter what; just removing WD and installing McLellan and all the vets knowing they had better be prepared and play better than last year.
Still, looking non playoffs, but another step forward for the youth - Wagner, Grundstrom, Luff, Roy, Walker, Amadio and possibly adding JAD and Clague.

I commend your fortitude in sticking with it in the post-Gretzky years. The last couple of years of Wayne, then the several seasons after that were some of the worst in Kings history.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

This is all so true. I had season seats pre-Gretzky at the Fab Forum and there were years I did not want to renew. That all changed when Gretzky came to LA...but then there were some bad years after the Gretzky to St Louis
trade and the Roman Vopat, Craig Johnson, Patrice Tardiff years.

The good news now, as you say; they are doing it right and the what they put on the ice will be getting better pretty fast - this year there are no outside additions and that was pretty much expected. But, there are some
pretty talented and exciting players that will most likely be on the team next year, (20-12) in Kupari, Turcotte, Anderson and probably Bjornfot. Maybe Peteresen takes over #1 too...and if there is a top 5 pick
in 2020 draft, possibly that player makes the roster. And Vilardi may well play yet. Rebuilds do not have to be these 3-5 year processes any more, if you draft 2-3 excellent prospects each draft, in which the
Kings have, the last 3 drafts. This season should be better than last, no matter what; just removing WD and installing McLellan and all the vets knowing they had better be prepared and play better than last year.
Still, looking non playoffs, but another step forward for the youth - Wagner, Grundstrom, Luff, Roy, Walker, Amadio and possibly adding JAD and Clague.

Porkins! Sorta, haha.

I agree the team probably won't look MUCH different this year, but they should at least be better, we get to see the youth grow a little more, and like Iafallo the previous year and Wagner this year, I'm sure we'll see a camp surprise or two. That much--and the light at the end of the tunnel starting to reveal itself the following year with more youth--should be cause for excitement/watching.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Porkins! Sorta, haha.

I agree the team probably won't look MUCH different this year, but they should at least be better, we get to see the youth grow a little more, and like Iafallo the previous year and Wagner this year, I'm sure we'll see a camp surprise or two. That much--and the light at the end of the tunnel starting to reveal itself the following year with more youth--should be cause for excitement/watching.

I forgot about Porkins there. He would be doomed if WD was still coach! While things may not look much different than last year, I have a feeling that there will be line changes and may not
see Iafallo and Brown with Kopitar...and have more balanced scoring - not that this team will be scoring 5 goals a game - but possible to actually get more scoring from line 3 and
the PP as well. I think by adding Porkins and believing Grundstrom will be a legit 15+ goal socrer, will help with that.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Interesting read up on Kempe in the latest Athletic article.

“I question the hockey sense and ability to make others better,” an NHL general manager said of Kempe. “Having said that, I do expect him to be more productive than in the past.”

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

That comment nails it and really does explain some of his inconsistencies.

I'm starting to view him as more of a Michael Grabner than a Jeff Carter.

 

[DoktorJeep]

When Kempe was a second line center, the Kings made the playoffs and Kopitar had his career best offensive season. I don’t think it was a coincidence this team started to regress when Carter returned to the lineup and was force fed minutes.

 

[TruKingFan]

I still think Kempe is better as a winger. If we ever get better centers, it just might make him transition to wing.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Most GMs act foolishly during as the window is closing. To contend for the most years possible, you want a GM that understands how his roster is trending and when it's time to fold his hand.

If we're going that way, the trend was to get rid of everyone starting in June 2014. An awful first two games against SJ, and then down 0-3. Having to win three Game 7's. Another 3 OT wins on home ice in the Final. It was a ridiculous run, but there were issues. That's not a dominant run. There were a thousand different times where things could've ended earlier than it did. Issues that would only get more pronounced. Not only Mitchell should've been allowed to walk, but of course Richards should've been gone, Greene should've been gone, and Gaborik should've been thanked for the production, and shown the door without another AEG dollar going into his pocket. Those are the easy ones though. Kopitar would've been almost 27, with 2 full seasons left at $6.8m. That's when you trade him. That's when you get real value. Especially just coming off the Cup. That's when you trade Carter. That's when you trade Williams. Still couldn't trade Brown though. 15-16 was just too late. Even 14-15, as we started to see the roster crumble, was too late. Voynov put DL in a more desperate position than he probably would've been had Voynov not happened, but it was what it was. Although, the worst thing for DL to do in 14-15 was not only not get rid of anyone, but then add to team. He got caught up in the cockroach/just get in thing, which was the more fundamental problem from 2014. That run was fool's gold, and a wiser professionally paid GM would've seen that.

I agree the team probably won't look MUCH different this year, but they should at least be better, we get to see the youth grow a little more, and like Iafallo the previous year and Wagner this year, I'm sure we'll see a camp surprise or two. That much--and the light at the end of the tunnel starting to reveal itself the following year with more youth--should be cause for excitement/watching.

This next deadline is when we start seeing more Cup roster guys getting the boot. If Muzzin was still here, he would've also been part of that wave, but he got an early start. Unfortunately, the younger guys left from the Cup rosters are the first to leave. All those long contracts, coming up to bite the franchise again.

By this time next year, the roster will start to look different. Although, how much outside talent there will be is yet to be seen. It'll have to be something, because they are scheduled to clear over $11m of cap with their UFA's-to-be. Maybe they can get rid of Martinez too. Kovalchuk might be gone, one way or another. Which might add another $7m or so of cap space on top of the $11m, if they're able to trade IK.

That comment nails it and really does explain some of his inconsistencies.

I'm starting to view him as more of a Michael Grabner than a Jeff Carter.

Didn't know how good things were with Stoll there, despite his flaws. Also desperately trying to get some youth at the C position by forcing Kempe there, almost no matter what. Not that there's always been enough room for Kempe to develop on the left side. Whether it's been bringing in IK, or having Pearson there, or Iafallo having too much effort to send down, Kempe can't get into those scoring roles.

When Kempe was a second line center, the Kings made the playoffs and Kopitar had his career best offensive season. I don’t think it was a coincidence this team started to regress when Carter returned to the lineup and was force fed minutes.

Kopitar in 27 games with Carter in 17-18:
14g, 22a, 36pts, 109pt average

Kopitar in 55 games without Carter in 17-18:
21g, 35a, 56pts, 83pt average

Team in 27 games with Carter in 17-18:
17-6-4, 115pt average

Team in 55 games without Carter in 17-18:
28-23-4, 89pt average

I doubt Kempe would've scored too much against Vegas when the whole team wasn't ready for playoff hockey. Then last year was the realization, from day 1 of camp, that Vegas had beat the will to compete at a playoff level out of the team, they all gave up, and they deserved Willie D.

There's a reason Kempe was a late 1st rd pick. He's got his strengths, but not enough of them at a young enough age to where he was more highly thought of. He was fine as the player to take at that point though. Is Brendan Lemieux an exciting name? Point was 50 spots after Kempe, so that's not a realistic miss. TB took 3 guys before Point.