Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: Clever Thread Title Needed

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Tanev really was one of the only consistently enjoyable things about that series.

What a madman.

Plus if he goes, who is gonna hook the rest of the team up with mind altering drugs?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

What part of "it's difficult to tell what Sid's still got until we see him with wingers who can help him out more" isn't clear? You keep talking about his production in this series, with these two wingers. I'm saying we can't draw conclusions until we see how he'd do with wingers who actually would help him be successful now that he can't just blow past players in transition.

We can draw conclusions off of the past several trips to the playoffs, dating back to the Caps series. Sid doesn't have what it takes to power a top line anymore if/when his wingers aren't up to task, and this team doesn't have the assets or cap to get him anything better. So either he makes due or he doesn't. And I'm not even talking about production, Sid looked like trash all series. He wasn't pressing, he wasn't creating at ES, he just simply was zero threat. Maybe that's Jake and Rust, maybe that's Sullivan's inability or refusal to get him away from the Isles' top pairing, maybe that's Sid just not being able to hack it anymore.

But from a production perspective as well as a "was he creating chances or pressuring offensively" perspective, Sid came up miserably short. I know there are a lot of variables in play, but I find it genuinely incorrect for people to imply Sid still has what it takes to live up to his expectation as a 1C making huge money. He doesn't have what it takes anymore to power a lackluster line or lackluster team through the playoffs, and we don't have the assets or cap to give him any better options at wing to make up for his inability.

You pretty much listed the entire roster... Are you actually suggesting trading Sid?

Sure. If he can't help this team win, move him. That goes for anyone on the roster. I'm a Penguins fan, not a Crosby, Malkin, or Jake fan. This chapter's closed and if it's in this team's best interest to move on from anyone and everyone, go for it. I'd rather watch a team of nobodies fail than to watch a team of big names fail.

I have no allegiance to millionaires who don't even know I exist. People who latch on to sports stars, develop weird parasocial relationships with them and act like they're infallible or deserve some kind of undying adoration are weird.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Again, if Sid was pressing or creating chances or being any kind of threat, I'd entirely agree that Jake and Rust were horrendous and their level of ineptitude sunk the 1st line. He wasn't. He was less of a threat than several other forwards, some of which people are rightfully raking over coals.

He was as bad as any of them offensively. Plain and simple. He had a couple nice deflections early on in the series, one went in. He had a nice play on the Rust goal where he and Rust were out there when Geno came out of the box. He was really strong defensively. But he wasn't up to task, focused entirely on Crosby's game alone, to do what he needed to do offensively. Hasn't been for years.

 

[Tender Rip]

My issue with our discussion was that line was producing and you were still ragging on them.
Sid was playing tremendous at the time and you were still nitpicking.

Unfortunately they were producing off the rush and on empty nets and particularly so against the lower lights of the division. I think the factors I have been complaining about are just about exactly the ones that were shown to be issues for that line in this series.

I was 100% behind switching up that line as early as Game 3.

Alright.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

We can draw conclusions off of the past several trips to the playoffs, dating back to the Caps series.

I think the bolded just showed your hand. The Caps series? You mean the one where Sid and Jake were literally our entire offense at even strength? The one where he had 6 points and no other forwards outside of those two produced at 5on5?

I think the bolded shows your agenda and I'm not in the mood to engage because of that and ...

Sid doesn't have what it takes to power a top line anymore if/when his wingers aren't up to task, and this team doesn't have the assets or cap to get him anything better. So either he makes due or he doesn't. And I'm not even talking about production, Sid looked like trash all series. He wasn't pressing, he wasn't creating at ES, he just simply was zero threat. Maybe that's Jake and Rust, maybe that's Sullivan's inability or refusal to get him away from the Isles' top pairing, maybe that's Sid just not being able to hack it anymore.
.

The second bolded just further proves that point. His wingers were awful this series. That's going to affect every player, not just Crosby.

It's not about his wingers being "up to the task" and about his wingers not being awful the entire series.

But I'm not going to bother with this conversation because it's clear you're just talking out of your ass about Crosby at this point. The fact you referenced the Caps series as when it started just proves it.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think the bolded just showed your hand. The Caps series? You mean the one where Sid and Jake were literally our entire offense at even strength? The one where he had 6 points and no other forwards produced at 5on5?

I think the bolded shows your agenda and I'm not in the mood to engage because of that and ...



The second bolded just further proves that point. His wingers were awful this series. That's going to affect every player, not just Crosby.

It's not about his wingers being "up to the task" and about his wingers not being awful the entire series.

But I'm not going to bother with this conversation because it's clear you're just talking out of your ass about Crosby at this point. The fact you referenced the Caps series as when it started just proves it.

I meant that Caps series was the last time Sid and Jake, or the combination of both of them, was worth their weight in cap hit/role on the team.

Sid was garbage. Plain and simple. I'm sure he'd be the first to tell you that. I assume it's hard to read as someone whose screen name takes after the guy in the discussion, but it's true. /shrug

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I meant that Caps series was the last time Sid and Jake, or the combination of both of them, was worth their weight in cap hit/role on the team.

Sid was garbage. Plain and simple. I'm sure he'd be the first to tell you that. I assume it's hard to read as someone whose screen name takes after the guy in the discussion, but it's true. /shrug

My issue isn't about his performance this series. He definitely had to be better.

My issue is with your continued silly "he's not a 1c worth ~$9 million anymore" remarks where you don't even contemplate that maybe, just maybe, having wingers who weren't absolute crap could help him be productive still.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

If you're gonna hold Jake and Rust to a high standard, and you should, and you're gonna crucify them for another dismal showing, and you should, you need to hold their center to the same standard.

All three were huge disappointments. Jake was a headcase, chopping at guys and throwing temper tantrums all series because he apparently thinks he shouldn't ever be hit? I guess? That's not to mention his potentially perma-f***ed up shoulder. Rust was a liability who scored on two long-range shots, but otherwise was horrendous at ES and especially on the PP. He should be the first to be traded this summer. But Sid was a non-entity offensively. Not off the rust, not in transition, not down low or on the cycle. He was garbage offensively, whether people feel comfortable admitting it or not. Great defensive effort, he deserves praise there (especially the play where he got a stick on Nelson's shot to probably save game 3) but call it like it was--he was trash offensively.

 

[BlackAndGold87]

What does a John Gibson trade look like?

Or is it even worth paying up for a goaltender?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

It's like you're not even reading what I write and just keep wanting to say how terrible Crosby is.

Were you the same guy who said Kuznetsov is better than Crosby and that he's maybe an average 1C now?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

My issue isn't about his performance this series. He definitely had to be better.

My issue is with your continued silly "he's not a 1c worth ~$9 million anymore" remarks where you don't even contemplate that maybe, just maybe, having wingers who weren't absolute crap could help him be productive still.

Listen, bud. If he's making almost $9 million a year and has the role/responsibility a top line center gets, he needs to live up to it. He hasn't for years, and now we don't have the assets, cap space or time to make the moves to get him the apparently all-star caliber wingers he needs.

He doesn't escape valid and harsh criticism because he's been a franchise icon and is one of the best ever to play the game over the course of his career. In this series, and the past several, he's been woefully underperforming when it comes to offensive pressure and production.

A guy like Sid carries high expectations, and when he fails to live up to them for multiple trips to the post season in a row, he deserves a bit of heat. I'm not absolving the trashcans on his wings from any blame. I've been calling for Jake and Rust's heads for the entire series. But at some point you'd expect your big money, big role 1C to step up and produce something. He didn't.

It happens, but when it does, he doesn't get a pass because you, I or anyone else likes the guy.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Oh well, most of you knew deep down this was coming since last summer (unless you were in denial about reality), so don’t let it get you down.

Stars are old, org missed the chance to start a rebuild on the fly, so might as well keep them together and sell some tickets

I’m just going to enjoy their twilight years and not give a left ball about anymore cups.

I expect Burke to try and rebuild the team in his image, Hextall to pretend like he’s the GM, and the summer to be kind of fun with the changes.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Why does Sid's game uniquely suffer from playing with Jake and Rust, but their game doesn't suffer from playing with Sid?

If all three were essentially no-shows offensively and miserable all series long, what's the rationale behind Sid being the gem in the rough of that group?

They were all bad. Not equally, but not one of the forwards on that top line should escape scathing criticism. Not Jake for his miserable showing offensively and temper tantrums, not Rust for looking like a 4th liner all series long, and not Sid for being nowhere to be found offensively, yet again.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Listen, bud. If he's making almost $9 million a year and has the role/responsibility a top line center gets, he needs to live up to it. He hasn't for years, and now we don't have the assets, cap space or time to make the moves to get him the apparently all-star caliber wingers he needs.

He doesn't escape valid and harsh criticism because he's been a franchise icon and is one of the best ever to play the game over the course of his career. In this series, and the past several, he's been woefully underperforming when it comes to offensive pressure and production.

A guy like Sid carries high expectations, and when he fails to live up to them for multiple trips to the post season in a row, he deserves a bit of heat. I'm not absolving the trashcans on his wings from any blame. I've been calling for Jake and Rust's heads for the entire series. But at some point you'd expect your big money, big role 1C to step up and produce something. He didn't.

It happens, but when it does, he doesn't get a pass because you, I or anyone else likes the guy.

Like I said, you're not actually reading what I'm writing and just responding with more "Crosby needs to produce no matter what" posts.

"Better fit for what Crosby at his age needs" does not mean "acquire a bunch of 100 point guys to carry him".

But carry on. I'm sure we'll be much better if the Pens do what you want and trade him since he's no longer worth his price tag, apparently.

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

It was great seeing all our core do pretty good regardless of what specific agendas are.

I wonder what changes will happen?

Guetzel?
Rust?
Peterson?
Jarry?
Zucker?
Sullivan and Crew?

You would have to think 2 or 3 get shipped out. Maybe Burke/Hextall can bring in a few younger Carters...

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

It was great seeing all our core do pretty good regardless of what specific agendas are.

I wonder what changes will happen?

Guetzel?
Rust?
Peterson?
Jarry?
Zucker?
Sullivan and Crew?

You would have to think 2 or 3 get shipped out. Maybe Burke/Hextall can bring in a few younger Carters...

Put Dumo in there - he would fetch a haul with his pedigree and contract.

Burke didn’t acquire Kap, so I don’t think he’s safe just because he came over last fall.

Pens honestly have a lot of desirable pieces if Burke wants to do a legit overhaul.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Like I said, you're not actually reading what I'm writing and just responding with more "Crosby needs to produce no matter what" posts.

"Better fit for what Crosby at his age needs" does not mean "acquire a bunch of 100 point guys to carry him".

But carry on. I'm sure we'll be much better if the Pens do what you want and trade him since he's no longer worth his price tag, apparently.

Much better than what? A team on a steady downward trajectory for years that currently has zero shot at the Cup? We're that with or without Crosby. I'm all for letting Sid and Geno play out their careers here. They've earned it. But if they want to chase the Cup elsewhere and if we can bring back a haul of futures to hopefully shorten the period of the post-Sid/Geno era of suckdom, go for it.

You're not going to find better than Jake or Rust for Sid's wing with the assets we have to trade and the minimal cap we have to work with. Do I think a like of like, Kapanen-Crosby-Hyman does a better job in a playoff atmosphere? Maybe. Kap was pretty invisible too, and while he hustled and made some nice plays with his legs, he has pretty high expectations coming into the playoffs. I thought his speed and ability to fly the zone would be a nightmare for the Isles to deal with but he scored one goal off the rush and made another nice play on the PP to get to a loose puck that Carter eventually scored on, and that's that.

This team has a myriad of issues to work through. Hexturke has to perform major, major surgery on this roster in order to get it to the point of reliably being able to escape the 1st or 2nd round, let alone make the ECF or SCF. But right now, Sid doesn't escape valid and harsh criticism because he has had a legendary career here. He sucked, as did his wingers.

 

[Dangles78]

What does a John Gibson trade look like?

Or is it even worth paying up for a goaltender?

its poulin+jarry+1st. Minimum aka it’s a pipe dream. You don’t get a top 5 goalie for nothin’

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

Put Dumo in there - he would fetch a haul with his pedigree and contract.

Burke didn’t acquire Kap, so I don’t think he’s safe just because he just came over last fall.

Pens honestly have a lot of desirable pieces if Burke wants to do a legit overhaul.

Yeah forgot about Dumo. I wanted to love the guy but those two plays in game 5... just wha...

I'm starting to believe it's just the system. High reward but high risk and team are waiting to pounce on it. I've never seen so many bad pinches get converted to goals.

Guetzel.
Rust
Dumo
Peterson
Jarry
Zucker
Sullivan and Crew?
Maybe, Matheson? Although, it was bizarro world because he was probably the most steady Defender (Letang did pretty good but lost his mind a few times... and his pinches)

 

[TKalltheTime]

On the bright side at least Horny is off this roster he was clearly a problem and would have been soooooo not welcomed in making the isles net minders life a living hell… thank god we moved him!

 

[Dangles78]

Put Dumo in there - he would fetch a haul with his pedigree and contract.

Burke didn’t acquire Kap, so I don’t think he’s safe just because he came over last fall.

Pens honestly have a lot of desirable pieces if Burke wants to do a legit overhaul.

trading kapanen would be a massive failure for this team. He’s a leader and his play shows. He’s a main piece moving forward.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yeah forgot about Dumo. I wanted to love the guy but those two plays in game 5... just wha...

I'm starting to believe it's just the system. High reward but high risk and team are waiting to pounce on it. I've never seen so many bad pinches get converted to goals.

Guetzel.
Rust
Dumo
Peterson
Jarry
Zucker
Sullivan and Crew?
Maybe, Matheson? Although, it was bizarro world because he was probably the most steady Defender (Letang did pretty good but lost his mind a few times... and his pinches)

I don’t think it’s any one thing we can point to and say this needs fixed and robble robble.

Stars are old, goaltending has been an Achilles heel for some time save 2016-17, the mix up front isn’t right, Sullivan’s voice is likely getting stale, the brass refuse to let any of the big names go because of ticket sales, JR went off the rails...

It is what it is and they got three cups out of this era.

They maxed out the Crosby-Malkin era and I’m content TBTH.

No one will feel sorry for us Pens fans as my wife, who has waited her entire life to see the Leafs win one cup, keeps reminding me.

Plus, we could be Caps fan and have to live with the fact our org pissed away a generational talent.

trading kapanen would be a massive failure for this team. He’s a leader and his play shows. He’s a main piece moving forward.

Bro, there literally are no main pieces with this roster.

Anyone of them could be moved and I mean ANYONE, and it wouldn’t change much.

 

[Andy99]

What does a John Gibson trade look like?

Or is it even worth paying up for a goaltender?

Jake Guentzel...

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Gibson sorts out the goalie situation instantly. Exceptional talent, imo.

But you can't afford that guy without opening up big holes elsewhere in the lineup. That's even assuming Anaheim wants anything other than premium futures like 1sts and top prospects.

The only moves this team should be making are departures, imo. If they're content letting the core ride out their current deals, so be it, I'm not gonna argue against the big three and their right to let their careers end however they choose. But any number of players outside of Sid, Geno and Letang could be dealt in a heartbeat and I wouldn't bat an eye. Nobody on this roster should be off the block.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I don’t think it’s any one thing we can point to and say this needs fixed and robble robble.

Stars are old, goaltending has been an Achilles heel for some time save 2016-17, the mix up front isn’t right, Sullivan’s voice is likely getting stale, the brass refuse to let any of the big names go because of ticket sales, JR went off the rails...

It is what it is and they got three cups out of this era.

They maxed out the Crosby-Malkin era and I’m content TBTH.

No one will feel sorry for us Pens fans as my wife, who has waited her entire life to see the Leafs win one cup, keeps reminding me.

Plus, we could be Caps fan and have to live with the fact our org pissed away a generational talent.



Bro, there literally are no main pieces with this roster.

Anyone of them could be moved and I mean ANYONE, and it wouldn’t change much.

I think you were one of the few that agreed with me, but I'm not sure. I'd like to see them change up the wing mix by bringing in more guys who can actually create chances rather than just a group of wingers who skate up and down the wing with limited creativity/playmaking ability.

That's one change I'd like to see.

Another is if they're not going the "creative winger" route, then at least add a bit of size/snarl so that it's not so easy for the clutch and grab East to box out our guys from the front of the net.