Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: Clever Thread Title Needed

[TimmyD]

I’m hoping Buffalo bungles this Eichel thing and trades him next offseason instead of this offseason

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Petts is tradeable if we wanted too. I’m just not that sure that’s a good idea right now. He’s a good D man

He's a struggling bottom pairing guy making $4 million for almost half a decade, and he's holding up a spot for our best blueline prospect to boot, or Friedman if we wanted to keep him in the lineup. Yeah, there may be a drop off from Petts to those guys, but it'd be minimal and we'd save a bunch of cash in the process.

Petts has to go, whether it's to Seattle (best situation, imo) or via trade.

 

[Tom Hanks]

He's a struggling bottom pairing guy making $4 million for almost half a decade, and he's holding up a spot for our best blueline prospect to boot, or Friedman if we wanted to keep him in the lineup. Yeah, there may be a drop off from Petts to those guys, but it'd be minimal and we'd save a bunch of cash in the process.

Petts has to go, whether it's to Seattle (best situation, imo) or via trade.

Petts get too much hate around here, he’s better than you think. Plays really solid D and this teams needs to have. I don’t think POJ can bring Petts steadiness in the D zone and Friedman has been good it’s such a small sample size. I keep him and deal with any potential cap issues during next season

What do you think @Jesse

 

[Gurglesons]

Petts get too much hate around here, he’s better than you think. Plays really solid D and this teams needs to have. I don’t think POJ can bring Petts steadiness in the D zone and Friedman has been good it’s such a small sample size. I keep him and deal with any potential cap issues during next season

What do you think @Jesse

He and @JackFr were both on 412 Sports Talk and gave some solid takes on the team in general. I'm not a big fan of the hosts, but they seem like good guys. (They hate Mark Madden.)

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Petts get too much hate around here, he’s better than you think.

This seems to be true of defensive players not named Brian Dumoulin in general. I would also extend the 'around here' part to include the whole fanbase.

 

[Tom Hanks]

He and @JackFr were both on 412 Sports Talk and gave some solid takes on the team in general. I'm not a big fan of the hosts, but they seem like good guys. (They hate Mark Madden.)

Do you have a link? I posted something in the off day thread which was Jesse on a podcast that was put on YouTube. Not sure if it was the same. Hadn’t watched it yet

 

[Tom Hanks]

This seems to be true of defensive players not named Brian Dumoulin in general. I would also extend the 'around here' part to include the whole fanbase.

I don’t really know much about the fan base outside of here since I’m not in Pittsburgh and never have been. The only thing I really know was the Fleury takes from fans outside of here

 

[HandshakeLine]

We won the division, clearly almost every player on this team is better than we believe.

 

[The Old Master]

This stupid thing in the back of my head keeps asking, what if Carter rocks out in the playoffs and the Kracken take him? I mean it would be super short term for them, but gms do sometimes love the old vets? That kind of monkey wrenches us, right?

no worries. he already said he would retire if someone else takes him. so they wont.

 

[Gurglesons]

Do you have a link? I posted something in the off day thread which was Jesse on a podcast that was put on YouTube. Not sure if it was the same. Hadn’t watched it yet

‎412 Sports Talk on Apple Podcasts

Jesse was on around 50 or 60 minutes in his episode.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Petts get too much hate around here, he’s better than you think. Plays really solid D and this teams needs to have. I don’t think POJ can bring Petts steadiness in the D zone and Friedman has been good it’s such a small sample size. I keep him and deal with any potential cap issues during next season

What do you think @Jesse

Petts sucks often and spending ~$8.5 million starting next year on your bottom pairing, two young guys who have struggled mightily for most of this season, is awful cap management. Again, not even touching on the whole "POJ needs a spot sooner than later and Matheson and Dumo aren't going anywhere" thing.

Petts is a must-move.

 

[Peat]

I love Carter but wouldn't that be among our best case wishes if they did that? They will not of course given his age, but if they want a 36 year old take him.

Maybe.

I think if teams are still struggling to move cap next summer, then losing one of Zucker or Pettersson/Matheson would be nice. Sucks to lose their asset value normally, but if that asset value is about a third, then hand me the cap savings.

Likewise, if ZAR's next contract is actually going to be quite big, then I won't mind seeing him leave.

Beyond that... yeah, losing the 36 year old with one year left on his contract is rarely the end of the world, but value wise, maybe not the worst thing. Then again, I can't actually think of one that'd sting all that much, so... *shrugs*

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Next summer's going to be a nuclear summer. Several important, young pieces need new (probably expensive) deals. Geno and Letang are up for new, victory lap deals. Rust's going to sadly price himself out of town.

If not this summer, then absolutely by next, Zucker and Petts both need to be gone. I just think it's the best case Ontario for Petts to be taken by Seattle as I don't think he has much value in a trade and his contract will be harder to move than Zucker's.

 

[Gurglesons]

Next summer's going to be a nuclear summer. Several important, young pieces need new (probably expensive) deals. Geno and Letang are up for new, victory lap deals. Rust's going to sadly price himself out of town.

If not this summer, then absolutely by next, Zucker and Petts both need to be gone. I just think it's the best case Ontario for Petts to be taken by Seattle as I don't think he has much value in a trade and his contract will be harder to move than Zucker's.

It's going be funny when your Nostradamus claims about next summer turn out the same way every cap summer does in PIT and we make the playoffs comfortably for the next 4 years or so.

Poulin and Legare are probably jumping into a top nine spot by next summer. Easy peasy replacement after we deal McCann or Rust for assets.

Kapanen becomes a 25 G - 35 A player. Guentzel continues his dominance as a 40 - 40 guy. Poulin jumps into our top nine as a 15G - 15A guy. Depth will be fine.

 

[madinsomniac]

Next summer's going to be a nuclear summer. Several important, young pieces need new (probably expensive) deals. Geno and Letang are up for new, victory lap deals. Rust's going to sadly price himself out of town.

If not this summer, then absolutely by next, Zucker and Petts both need to be gone. I just think it's the best case Ontario for Petts to be taken by Seattle as I don't think he has much value in a trade and his contract will be harder to move than Zucker's.

I totally move Zucker for a defenseman from a team that is heavy on them... The sabres probably part ways with colin miller because he had a down year and they have too many young guys....with their lack of scoring they need offense badly

then you protect him and expose petts and matheson... if ceci goes you have a fill in already there and they virtually are locked into one of the two of petts or math you move out Zuckers deal plus pets deal plus whatever ridiculous thing ceci is getting and add a meh miller deal

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I totally move Zucker for a defenseman from a team that is heavy on them... The sabres probably part ways with colin miller because he had a down year and they have too many young guys....with their lack of scoring they need offense badly

then you protect him and expose petts and matheson... if ceci goes you have a fill in already there and they virtually are locked into one of the two of petts or math you move out Zuckers deal plus pets deal plus whatever ridiculous thing ceci is getting and add a meh miller deal

I think your best bet is to lose one of Petts or Zucker to Seattle and deal the other for futures/cap space. I can't see either one bringing back a guy who is going to come in and have an impact in a 1:1 deal.

With guys like Hyman and Coleman available, potentially, in the FA market, you have a chance to get a really solid middle-6 guy who brings an element we're pretty sorely lacking while also being able to play and produce at a good level. Easy, no-brainer replacements for Zucker's role on Geno's wing, or the 3rd line if we want to go with McCann-Kap long term.

With Petts, I don't think you lose much of anything going from him to Friedman or even POJ. Whatever you do lose, you surely won't lose $3+ million in cap-worth of effectiveness.

 

[Jesse]

Petts get too much hate around here, he’s better than you think. Plays really solid D and this teams needs to have. I don’t think POJ can bring Petts steadiness in the D zone and Friedman has been good it’s such a small sample size. I keep him and deal with any potential cap issues during next season

What do you think @Jesse

Pettersson was the best defensive-defenseman on the team this year, analytically speaking. He wasn't very good offensively, the team wasn't very good offensively when he was on the ice, but he was a brick wall on zone entry denials, mitigated shots and scoring chances extremely well, and overall had a year that I'd consider to be a B- grade for doing the specific job od a defenseman.

His role difficulty was in the 66th percentile of the league, so not resoundingly difficult - but he knocked it out of the park defensively.

 

[ColePens]

Petts get too much hate around here, he’s better than you think. Plays really solid D and this teams needs to have. I don’t think POJ can bring Petts steadiness in the D zone and Friedman has been good it’s such a small sample size. I keep him and deal with any potential cap issues during next season

What do you think @Jesse

I think two things can be right. Pets is our worst dman. Pets is vastly underrated here.

I just think for the Pittsburgh Penguins style of play, I'd rather pay Ceci 4m and not Pets. Pets would probably be very good in the west. And i've already made my points in the past because helping transition, defense, etc. Pets is very weak at retrieval and supporting forwards. He's VERY consistent at everything else. Very high floor but low ceiling.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I think two things can be right. Pets is our worst dman. Pets is vastly underrated here.

I just think for the Pittsburgh Penguins style of play, I'd rather pay Ceci 4m and not Pets. Pets would probably be very good in the west. And i've already made my points in the past because helping transition, defense, etc. Pets is very weak at retrieval and supporting forwards. He's VERY consistent at everything else. Very high floor but low ceiling.

Paying Ceci 4mil which will probably need to be 4 yrs makes me nervous because short seasons throw up some curve balls as they did in the lockout season. Petts is fairly consistent his offense dropped off a bit this year but that could have partly been which forwards he was on the ice with more. Ceci's history is a bit more whack. Not that we have to choose between them just yet. I think we can have both next season and I'd rather more security on D.

 

[Peat]

Pettersson was the best defensive-defenseman on the team this year, analytically speaking. He wasn't very good offensively, the team wasn't very good offensively when he was on the ice, but he was a brick wall on zone entry denials, mitigated shots and scoring chances extremely well, and overall had a year that I'd consider to be a B- grade for doing the specific job od a defenseman.

His role difficulty was in the 66th percentile of the league, so not resoundingly difficult - but he knocked it out of the park defensively.

Which site's stats do you use for role difficulty?

Also - I think I remember this right - didn't you post that Pettersson had some of our best team offence stats to start the season, before he got injured?

 

[Jesse]

Which site's stats do you use for role difficulty?

Also - I think I remember this right - didn't you post that Pettersson had some of our best team offence stats to start the season, before he got injured?

Role Difficulty comes from HockeyStatsCZ. Andy and Rono do a great job of taking deployment and turning it into a tangible, digestible percentile.

You're right, but that turned out to be such a small sample size in the grand scheme of the year. The rest of it was flat offensively. Not to the point that it damages the team, IMO. But if you're looking for offense, look elsewhere.

That being said, there's a role for this kind of player.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I find it really odd that one would advocate for keeping Ceci over Pettersson, when:

1. Pettersson's underlying numbers on NST were substantially better than Ceci's this year, mostly because Ceci absolutely cratered to end the season. In the second half of the season (last 28 games), Ceci had a -7.29% xGF%Rel, which was miles worse than any other defenseman. When you make the sample size even smaller, the numbers get even worse.
2. Ceci has a long track record of being shit, and he'll likely go back to shit if you give him a big contract.
3. Pettersson has a long track record of being a serviceable to solid #4D, and even if you think he had a bad year this year, he'll likely go back to his past form

I guess you can rationalize it by saying "you can replace Petttersson with POJ and have Ceci for the bottom pair", but at that point I'd rather just not re-sign Ceci to begin with and go cheaper on defense. Extending Ceci seems pretty similar to what extending Schultz was, but Ceci's bad was even worse than Schultz's bad.

 

[Peat]

Role Difficulty comes from HockeyStatsCZ. Andy and Rono do a great job of taking deployment and turning it into a tangible, digestible percentile.

You're right, but that turned out to be such a small sample size in the grand scheme of the year. The rest of it was flat offensively. Not to the point that it damages the team, IMO. But if you're looking for offense, look elsewhere.

That being said, there's a role for this kind of player.

Thanks - I'd certainly agree their stat cards are some of the best around.

Re Pettersson - where I was going to go with this was wondering how much was role/confidence and how much was just who he is. I think that in his first season here - and think Sznajder's stats back me up - he was a lot more risk taking and aggressive with the puck on his stick. Then he took on more reponsibility, went from playing with JJ and Gudbranson to Marino, and became much safer in his puck movement. Every now and again - start of this season, maybe a few games at the end this one - he seems to break out from that a little and play a lot more puck support.

There's no doubt that most days he's not much offensively - and I also think that realistically this team will always need a couple of safe but boring guys like him - I just wonder where he'd be in a more aggressive pairing/usage; Marino's his partner with the lowest xGF/60 by far over the last three seasons best I can see.

 

[ColePens]

Paying Ceci 4mil which will probably need to be 4 yrs makes me nervous because short seasons throw up some curve balls as they did in the lockout season. Petts is fairly consistent his offense dropped off a bit this year but that could have partly been which forwards he was on the ice with more. Ceci's history is a bit more whack. Not that we have to choose between them just yet. I think we can have both next season and I'd rather more security on D.

I think some people won't understand what I'm saying. I'm not saying anything different than Jesse when it comes to defense. What I am saying is the stuff that goes on away from the puck. I would encourage, while we have the week off, for people to just watch a random game and check out how often Ceci is working his ass off up the ice to push the defense back for our forwards to get a rush. It's insane. And what I find crazier is that Matheson/Letang will more likely get caught up the ice and Ceci always seems to be back or know he has support.

Hands down I would take Ceci and it's not even close. I don't even think we have to pay that much.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I find it really odd that one would advocate for keeping Ceci over Pettersson, when:

1. Pettersson's underlying numbers on NST were substantially better than Ceci's this year, mostly because Ceci absolutely cratered to end the season. In the second half of the season (last 28 games), Ceci had a -7.29% xGF%Rel, which was miles worse than any other defenseman. When you make the sample size even smaller, the numbers get even worse.
2. Ceci has a long track record of being shit, and he'll likely go back to shit if you give him a big contract.
3. Pettersson has a long track record of being a serviceable to solid #4D, and even if you think he had a bad year this year, he'll likely go back to his past form

I guess you can rationalize it by saying "you can replace Petttersson with POJ and have Ceci for the bottom pair", but at that point I'd rather just not re-sign Ceci to begin with and go cheaper on defense. Extending Ceci seems pretty similar to what extending Schultz was, but Ceci's bad was even worse than Schultz's bad.

I think the main argument for keeping Ceci is that he works very well with Matheson, which has been our defacto second pairing. That said, if you don't believe that Ceci is solely responsible for Matheson's turnaround (and I kind of am in that camp myself), or you think that Matheson has a bigger role in helping Ceci turn things around... I guess that would change things.

I dunno, personally I don't really care which defenseman gets exposed, but I suspect Pettersson will get protected anyway, because he's pretty much the 4th best option and Matheson has an unattractive contract for the Kraken.