Confirmed Trade: [PIT/WPG] Rutger McGroarty for Brayden Yager

[Empoleon8771]

At times? His overall body of work is absolutely horrendous. He couldnt have screwed up the leafs anymore than he did. They would probably have atleast a cup final if they had anyone competent. No idea how to build an NHL hockey team.

Yes it's Dubas's fault that the Leafs core is a bunch of losers, you're right!

It's always funny to me when people blame Dubas on the Leafs failures when the Leafs continued to do the same exact things with Treliving as they did with Dubas.

 

[bert]

Yes it's Dubas's fault that the Leafs core is a bunch of losers, you're right!

Its his fault that he made horrible decisions around them over and over again yes. If he had just not done anything they would have been way better. I mean if you are that oblivious to his body of work you can admit it.

Kadri for Barrie horrible. Letting Hyman walk. Horrible, never addressing the goaltending or D core. Horrible. Drafting small skill when thats what they already had horrible.

As a sens fan I am very thankful he has been the leafs GM. I am very thankful they chose a guy who never played hockey who bases his decisions on analytics and likes being friends with the players. He's the most overrated GM in hockey.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Its his fault that he made horrible decisions around them over and over again yes. If he had just not done anything they would have been way better. I mean if you are that oblivious to his body of work you can admit it.

Kadri for Barrie horrible. Letting Hyman walk. Horrible, never addressing the goaltending or D core. Horrible. Drafting small skill when thats what they already had horrible.

It's always funny to me when people blame Dubas on the Leafs failures when the Leafs continued to do the same exact things with Treliving as they did with Dubas.

The Leafs have continued to lose in the playoffs because their core is a bunch of losers and Shanahan won't let the GM make any notable changes.

 

[bert]

It's always funny to me when people blame Dubas on the Leafs failures when the Leafs continued to do the same exact things with Treliving as they did with Dubas.

The Leafs have continued to lose in the playoffs because their core is a bunch of losers and Shanahan won't let the GM make any notable changes.

Man your hockey acumen is lacking. Plenty of results to look at what the issues are in Toronto and no its not Matthews and Nylander. Treliving is actually addressing the teams weakness's he has identified a team that needs veteran players with a physical presence and winning pedigree.

Tre was put into a corner everyone knows they should have traded Marner for an elite D man and not handed out those contracts. Dubas did that.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Man your hockey acumen is HORRIBLE. Treliving is actually addressing the teams weakness's he has identified a team that needs veteran players with a physical prescence and winning pedigree.

I cant help it if you are clueless.

And all of that "physical presence and winning pedigree" did them wonders as they lost in round 1 once again this year!

I guess giving Chris Tanev a 6 year deal as a 35 year old is the real lynchpin that Treliving delivered that Dubas couldn't.

 

[bert]

And all of that "physical presence and winning pedigree" did them wonders as they lost in round 1 once again this year!

I guess giving Chris Tanev a 6 year deal as a 35 year old is the real lynchpin that Treliving delivered that Dubas couldn't.

Do some research and get off HF boards for 5 minutes before blindly defending a guy because he is part of the organization you cheer for.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Dubas f***ed up the Barrie trade no doubt. Worst move he’s ever made.

Hyman wasn’t so obvious at the time. Was pretty universal sentiment of how bad the contract would age. Hyman has also improved his game as a UFA forward, which is rare.

Tre was put into a corner everyone knows they should have traded Marner for an elite D man and not handed out those contracts. Dubas did that.

long rumour is Dubas tried to do exactly that and was overruled.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Do some research and get off HF boards for 5 minutes before blindly defending a guy because he is part of the organization you cheer for.

You're saying that Treliving added "physical presence and winning pedigrees" because he added Chris Tanev and Ryan Reaves to the Leafs, which accomplished f*** all as they lost in round 1 once again.

long rumour is Dubas tried to do exactly that and was overruled.

And it shouldn't be a surprise that the Leafs decided to re-sign Nylander to a huge deal and not trade Marner after another playoff failure.

It's because the GM isn't the one calling the shots, it's Shanahan.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

And it shouldn't be a surprise that the Leafs decided to re-sign Nylander to a huge deal and not trade Marner after another playoff failure.

It's because the GM isn't the one calling the shots, it's Shanahan.

I think keeping all 3 is correct move, FYI.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Tre was put into a corner everyone knows they should have traded Marner for an elite D man and not handed out those contracts. Dubas did that.

Yet Treliving re-signed Nylander to a huge deal and proceeded to not trade Marner for a defenseman. In fact, I'm pretty damn confident that we'll be hearing about a Marner extension before the trade deadline too.

Again, the Leafs are operating the same exact way with Treliving as they did with Dubas. Because the GM isn't the one holding the power in Toronto.

 

[bert]

You're saying that Treliving added "physical presence and winning pedigrees" because he added Chris Tanev and Ryan Reaves to the Leafs, which accomplished f*** all as they lost in round 1 once again.



And it shouldn't be a surprise that the Leafs decided to re-sign Nylander to a huge deal and not trade Marner after another playoff failure.

It's because the GM isn't the one calling the shots, it's Shanahan.

Just take my advice and do some research. He has added more than that with no cap space, just a lazy response. Do you actually think signing the best playoff player they have had was a bad idea? My god.

Tre was stuck with Marner, his contract situation took away all his value. Pretty simple concept. Your Boy Dubas gave that to him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Just take my advice and do some research. He has added more than that with no cap space, just a lazy response. Do you actually think signing the best playoff player they have had was a bad idea? My god.

Tre was stuck with Marner, his contract situation took away all his value. Pretty simple concept. Your Boy Dubas gave that to him.

All of these amazing players Treliving added, which has made no difference with the results of the team as he continues to re-sign the core players and make no changes. But he signed a mid 30s Tanev and OEL this year, both to inflated deals that will almost assuredly age horribly! What a guy!

I'm not even defending Dubas' performance here, but to act like Dubas was horrible and Treliving hasn't just been Dubas 2.0 is just laughable. Know why Treliving has just been Dubas 2.0? Because Shanahan is the one actually running that team.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Agree and sometimes they will have control and other times not. There's only so much you can do with a location like Winnipeg. Either guys are willing to do it or they aren't. I think they made out really good here but because they got a comparable prospect who is from Saskatoon. So I imagine Yager would be less adverse to Winnipeg than Rutger was (but that's complete conjecture).

Yeah, you have the opportunity to ask about it in an interview but I doubt you're getting straight answers from a kid who really wants to be drafted. Those kids are likely telling them what they want to hear.

What I was suggesting was more - go ask some guys from the dev camp if they heard rumblings. I can't imagine Rutger kept 100% of this to himself. If there was frustration, no doubt he told someone and word gets around. I would be more concerned about "yeah he said he didn't like the coach or didn't like the staff because they said XYZ" rather than "he didn't like the city or facility". I think the new reality some teams need to face is that, if you get a highly touted kid like Rutger, you need to treat him well. If he comes in and is treated like shit, he may want to bail. And also realize that not every personality can and must fit into a prescribed form. If I were Chevy, I would have absolutely lit up Wheeler if I thought for one second his over-harshness was causing conflict with my recent 2OV pick, who is (ideally) going to be a top performer with the team for the next decade-plus, and that it may cause him to demand a trade. That's not leadership, that's ego. On both sides. Did someone from the org (like Scheifele or Lowry or Helly) come him and make of bunch of nasty comments to him because he's the young, new guy? That's more what I was getting at.

Agree on what you said especially with the bolded section above. This isn't 1982 where guys were just thrilled to get drafted. I'm sure that they're still thrilled to be drafted, but as the NHL has become "bigger business" agents have become more savvy and it's not guaranteed that players are going to have the same level of loyalty because most team's don't have that loyalty either. If a team tries to dictate rather than colloborate - I think that there can be ramifications. Some teams adapt, but there are definitely "slow adapters". And as the theory around contracts has evolved where more players are paid more of a "market rate" coming out of the ELC, it's definitely in the player's best interest to get there as soon as possible. It used to be that almost everyone 2nd contract was a bridge deal that was seemingly at a significant discount to market, but that's no longer the case.

And good point on not expecting the truth in the interview. Still worthwhile to ask and see what there response is, but likely response will be some cookie cutter answer.

 

[bert]

All of these amazing players Treliving added, which has made no difference with the results of the team as he continues to re-sign the core players and make no changes. But he signed a mid 30s Tanev and OEL this year, both to inflated deals that will almost assuredly age horribly! What a guy!

I'm not even defending Dubas' performance here, but to act like Dubas was horrible and Treliving hasn't just been Dubas 2.0 is just laughable. Know why Treliving has just been Dubas 2.0? Because Shanahan is the one actually running that team.

The fact you cant tell the difference in mind set just shows how out of touch with the leafs situation you truly are. Or maybe its hockey in general I am not sure. Dubas drafted small skill, Dubas let physicality walk, Dubas prioritized what they already had. He did not address their obvious weaknesses. He became buddy buddy with the stars on the team and got absolutely worked in contract negotiations. Again I am very thankful for all of this as a sens fan. Its ok to be self aware of not only other teams but your team too, take off the Penguins blinders.

Much like in Ottawa where Dorion put the organization in a terrible position with draft capital traded or wasted, contracts set so the teams against the cap where Staios hands are tied only thing he can do is some tweaking. Its the same thing for Treleiving. I am not calling tre some sort of world beater but atleast he knows how to build a hockey team and address Toronto's obvious problems.

Yeah Tanev and OEL's contracts probably wont age well but the Leafs window is only so big and both those players are going to solidify a bad defense next season. The atlantic is the weakest from a top tier team perspective that it has been in a while he had no choice. The east in general isnt overly strong right now from a top team perspective.

 

[Ossific]

Okay ya.. so McGroarty and Yager...

 

[Figgy44]

Okay ya.. so McGroarty and Yager...

...I wish Yager had a ridiculous slap shot so that fans can play a Jaeger bomb drinking game every time he blasts one on net?

 

[SEALBound]

Agree on what you said especially with the bolded section above. This isn't 1982 where guys were just thrilled to get drafted. I'm sure that they're still thrilled to be drafted, but as the NHL has become "bigger business" agents have become more savvy and it's not guaranteed that players are going to have the same level of loyalty because most team's don't have that loyalty either. If a team tries to dictate rather than colloborate - I think that there can be ramifications. Some teams adapt, but there are definitely "slow adapters". And as the theory around contracts has evolved where more players are paid more of a "market rate" coming out of the ELC, it's definitely in the player's best interest to get there as soon as possible. It used to be that almost everyone 2nd contract was a bridge deal that was seemingly at a significant discount to market, but that's no longer the case.

And good point on not expecting the truth in the interview. Still worthwhile to ask and see what there response is, but likely response will be some cookie cutter answer.

100% agreed.

Re: bold part - ESPECIALLY if you have a handicap like "you have to live in a less desirable location".

That may irk the organization, front office, leaders, other players but again, that's the new realities of what we are facing. And honestly, it's not the worst possible situation as the prospect will likely have value and can be moved for value. I would rather have a A- prospect that is super happy to be there over a A prospect who thinks the city/location/org/etc is the bane of his existence. He's probably going to jerk you around come contract time and likely leave when he hits FA.

As much as I don't hate Bruce Boudreau, I hate his "you just want to punch him in the head" comment. It just shows a detachment from reality.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

A 2018 draft pick that played 2 years in the minors isn't a comparable. Same thing happened with Vesalainen here and Winnipeg fans could care less.

Your right. Rutger McGroarty never even signed with you guys. Sounds like yall may have fumbled the bag on contract signing talks.

Penguins don't do a lot with youth either as of late so I can't imagine it's that.

 

[Whis]

Your right. Rutger McGroarty never even signed with you guys. Sounds like yall may have fumbled the bag on contract signing talks.

Penguins don't do a lot with youth either as of late so I can't imagine it's that.

I would be really happy if this was an organizational issue - that means it's fixable. But taking Chevy/Pat Brisson/Rutger word on it, he never wanted to be a Jet. Unfortunately players see WPG as a dump.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Which prospect is better and is it a big gap?

McGroarty is better right now, but he's also a year older and much of the reason he's seen as being better is because he had a really good D+2 season. Yager hasn't had his D+2 season yet.
They were comparable at the end of their D+1 seasons.
Also, McGroarty is more physically developed than Yager, so he seems to be NHL-ready now, whereas Yager probably isn't ready now and may not be next season either. But this just means McGroarty is ready sooner, not that he'll be better.

...I wish Yager had a ridiculous slap shot so that fans can play a Jaeger bomb drinking game every time he blasts one on net?

He does have a nice shot, but I don't know if a slap shot is in his wheelhouse.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Okay ya.. so McGroarty and Yager...

But then how will Leaf fans continue their grudge against Dubas?!

 

[FiveTacos]

Honestly it makes sense. Why would a NCAA kid decide to leave school as a sophomore just to ride buses in the AHL for pretty shitty pay?

At a big time program, those guys are making more money than they would in the AHL when you factor in living expenses. Add in an easier schedule ... why would you leave before you either are getting an ELC burn, or an assured NHL spot? It makes no sense to do so from a financial perspective.

Of course this assumes that's the reason. But like with Gauthier, we don't really know. He may have legitimate reason for having soured on the org, and depending on what it is he may not be in a position to say anything about it. Particularly if he had an issue with someone entrenched there.

 

[Empoleon8771]

At a big time program, those guys are making more money than they would in the AHL when you factor in living expenses. Add in an easier schedule ... why would you leave before you either are getting an ELC burn, or an assured NHL spot? It makes no sense to do so from a financial perspective.

Of course this assumes that's the reason. But like with Gauthier, we don't really know. He may have legitimate reason for having soured on the org, and depending on what it is he may not be in a position to say anything about it. Particularly if he had an issue with someone entrenched there.

Not only that, but I figure that some of these guys are getting NIL deals that can also give them some extra money.

I never blame a prospect for deciding to go back to college over turning pro if they're not immediately going to be in the NHL.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It was in response to a Pens fan saying he doesn't know why Jets fans would be upset with Rutger. Every diehard fanbase would be pissed with the player in this situation (including Pittsburgh fans). I was being facetious.

If the team was hurt by the decision, of course you'd be mad. But the Jets got a pretty damn close to even prospect in a huge position of need. Hell, I think you can easily argue that the Jets benefitted from the move due to Yager being a C.

You can easily just pretend that the Jets took Yager at #14 overall instead of McGroarty, which is how I bet a huge majority of fans will view this trade down the line. Most people won't even remember that Yager and McGroarty weren't drafted by the teams they go pro with.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Not only that, but I figure that some of these guys are getting NIL deals that can also give them some extra money.

I never blame a prospect for deciding to go back to college over turning pro if they're not immediately going to be in the NHL.

Hockey NIL deals are nothing. Logan Cooley signed one with Chipotle that gave him a free meal a day.