OT: Pirates Talk: That Skenes guy is okay at teh baseball

Big McLargehuge

Fragile Traveler
May 9, 2002
72,249
7,845
S. Pasadena, CA
I mean, I was at the Blackout game and it was a hell of a night. It's also unbelievably pathetic that winning a game that, checks notes, got the Pirates into the divisional playoff round is the greatest moment of the franchise in the last 30 years.

Amen, brother.

That moment was far and away the highlight of my life as a Pirates fan and that fact makes me so f***ing angry.

We need to clean house, but then Nutting would have to pay multiple people to do the same job! We can't have a billionaire spending his money!!!

A pox on the entire Nutting lineage.
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
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Redmond, WA
I know people are mad about Shelton coming back next year, but this feels more like a "Shero ties his fate to Bylsma" situation more than anything. If the team doesn't improve next year, I'm convinced both Shelton and Cherington are fired. Cherington could have given himself a few more years with a new manager if he would have fired Shelton now, but I think Cherington tied himself to Shelton now and both are going to be axed after next year if things don't improve.
 
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Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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why put it off until next year though? this was the make or break year and they decisively broke

I don't see why this year was the "make or break" year. I don't think they went into this year anticipating that Skenes and Jones would immediately be as good as they were. If they went into last year thinking it was a "make or break" year, they didn't make any moves last off-season to suggest that's the case.

I'm not a Cherington or Shelton defender, but I don't mind them getting one more off-season with knowing what they have in their starting rotation.
 
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TooManyHumans

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May 4, 2018
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I don't see why this year was the "make or break" year. I don't think they went into this year anticipating that Skenes and Jones would immediately be as good as they were. If they went into last year thinking it was a "make or break" year, they didn't make any moves last off-season to suggest that's the case.

I'm not a Cherington or Shelton defender, but I don't mind them getting one more off-season with knowing what they have in their starting rotation.
What exactly have they done to make you not mind them getting another crack at it? Other than lucking into Skenes they have done basically nothing to make this team better. As you point out, they didn't make any moves in the off-season last year to make the team better. They will act the same this year as it is all they know. Cherington will sign some failed players hoping they turn it around so he can look like a genius. He will fail at this yet again.
 
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Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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What exactly have they done to make you not mind them getting another crack at it? Other than lucking into Skenes they have done basically nothing to make this team better. As you point out, they didn't make any moves in the off-season last year to make the team better. They will act the same this year as it is all they know. Cherington will sign some failed players hoping they turn it around so he can look like a genius. He will fail at this yet again.

Because I have no reason to think Cherington will be fired this off-season, so if the choice is "Cherington fires Shelton but gets extra immunity for the next 3 years" or "Cherington ties himself to Shelton and both get fired next year if things don't get better", I'm picking the second.

I just don't think this year was a "make or break" year, and him firing Shelton now would give him extra immunity that I don't really want him to have.
 

TooManyHumans

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Because I have no reason to think Cherington will be fired this off-season, so if the choice is "Cherington fires Shelton but gets extra immunity for the next 3 years" or "Cherington ties himself to Shelton and both get fired next year if things don't get better", I'm picking the second.

I just don't think this year was a "make or break" year, and him firing Shelton now would give him extra immunity that I don't really want him to have.
Ok, I thought you were arguing that Cherington has done something to deserve to come back. I agree that firing Shelton means nothing if Cherington is still here. However, I don't assume that he will be gone after next year if they fall flat on their faces again. I am not sure why one more bad finish would be enough when all the bad finishes so far haven't been.
 
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Empoleon8771

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Ok, I thought you were arguing that Cherington has done something to deserve to come back. I agree that firing Shelton means nothing if Cherington is still here. However, I don't assume that he will be gone after next year if they fall flat on their faces again. I am not sure why one more bad finish would be enough when all the bad finishes so far haven't been.

I could be wrong, but like I posted earlier, I feel like Cherington is tying himself to Shelton like Shero tied himself to Bylsma. I think Cherington is saying this "we'll have to be responsible together" idea that makes me think that the two will be fired together. I think Shelton is definitely out if things don't improve next year, but I think Cherington is tying his fate to Shelton's fate with some of his comments.
 
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TooManyHumans

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I could be wrong, but like I posted earlier, I feel like Cherington is tying himself to Shelton like Shero tied himself to Bylsma. I think Cherington is saying this "we'll have to be responsible together" idea that makes me think that the two will be fired together. I think Shelton is definitely out if things don't improve next year, but I think Cherington is tying his fate to Shelton's fate with some of his comments.
I hope so. I have no faith in ownership to recognize the right thing to do or to do it.
 

Tasty Biscuits

with fancy sauce
Aug 8, 2011
12,495
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I'm looking forward to the city not caving and the team not existing once the lease is up in just over half a decade.

The fact that basically no one of importance was fired, still, is the final nail in the coffin as to what this franchise represents. Numerous other teams cast away losers and yet Cherington and Shelton are on blank check contracts.
Is there a situation where the team leaves and we get a new one (and new ownership more importantly) thru expansion a la Cleveland Browns? Only hiccup with that would be zero plans for expansion for the foreseeable future.
 

ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
19,189
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Is there a situation where the team leaves and we get a new one (and new ownership more importantly) thru expansion a la Cleveland Browns? Only hiccup with that would be zero plans for expansion for the foreseeable future.

No chance. They're simply taking a team from a weak market with poor ownership and transferring it to somewhere with a bigger audience = more money for the team and MLB.

I don't think the city will vote to approve public funding for a new lease based on the track record of Nutting and it's not like the history of this team over the past 40 year is anything to cherish. There has not been a bigger embarrassment in baseball since 1980.

I'd seriously, 100%, rather see the team sold and moved vs enduring the same song and dance year after year. It's pathetic.
 
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Empoleon8771

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No chance. They're simply taking a team from a weak market with poor ownership and transferring it to somewhere with a bigger audience = more money for the team and MLB.

I don't think the city will vote to approve public funding for a new lease based on the track record of Nutting and it's not like the history of this team over the past 40 year is anything to cherish. There has not been a bigger embarrassment in baseball since 1980.

I'd seriously, 100%, rather see the team sold and moved vs enduring the same song and dance year after year. It's pathetic.

Then stop watching the team then? Crazy thought.

Look, things are shit with this team right now and it likely won't get better with Nutting as the owner, but to cheer for the team to move rather than continue to be owned by Nutting is downright absurd. Just stop paying attention to the Pirates if you hate the Nutting owned Pirates so much.

The chance of them moving after the lease is up is very real, but to say that you'd rather have that happen is downright ridiculous.
 

GilbertSeinfeld

Registered User
Mar 4, 2024
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Bob Nutting should have sat down with Cherington and asked him for an assessment of the free agent money he was given to spend.

At that point, he should have been shown the door.

If Nutting did have that discussion and still kept Cherington, he didn't fire him because he didn't want to eat the money he would have to eat on whatever extension he gave Cherington.

If they have an April similar to this past August, heads better start rolling, either literally, or figuratively.
 

Ugene Magic

EVIL LAUGH
Oct 17, 2008
55,101
19,545
Pittsburgh
The GM/HC are put into a restrictive stance from the getgo. They were hired to be fired. They were certainly not brought in to be inspired.

Just keep the fan rate to 5000/15000 rate up 'til August. Profit.
 

cookthebooks

Registered User
Oct 4, 2017
3,104
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a baseball managers influence on a game and a season is infinitesimally small compared to a hockey coaches. if cherington is tying himself to shelton he’s even worse at this than i fear
 

MrBrightside

Registered User
May 5, 2010
5,757
3,596
Franklin Park, PA
Then stop watching the team then? Crazy thought.

Look, things are shit with this team right now and it likely won't get better with Nutting as the owner, but to cheer for the team to move rather than continue to be owned by Nutting is downright absurd. Just stop paying attention to the Pirates if you hate the Nutting owned Pirates so much.

The chance of them moving after the lease is up is very real, but to say that you'd rather have that happen is downright ridiculous.
Yeah, his one note shit is getting tired. No one requires anyone to watch.

That said, I can't believe they are just running it back with Cherington and Shelton. The idea of giving GMBC another offseason of dumpster diving excites no one.
 
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Scandale du Jour

JordanStaal#1Fan
Mar 11, 2002
63,094
29,859
Asbestos, Qc
www.angelfire.com
Then stop watching the team then? Crazy thought.

Look, things are shit with this team right now and it likely won't get better with Nutting as the owner, but to cheer for the team to move rather than continue to be owned by Nutting is downright absurd. Just stop paying attention to the Pirates if you hate the Nutting owned Pirates so much.

The chance of them moving after the lease is up is very real, but to say that you'd rather have that happen is downright ridiculous.
Yeah, as someone who lost two teams (Nordiques and Expos), I find it sooooooooooo stupid that people would wish for the team to leave. Even a shit team is better than no team at all.

A night at PNC is super fun. The team has an history of over 120 years. You don't flush all of that down the toilet because Bob Nutting is a cheap piece of shit.
 

Ugene Magic

EVIL LAUGH
Oct 17, 2008
55,101
19,545
Pittsburgh
Yeah, as someone who lost two teams (Nordiques and Expos), I find it sooooooooooo stupid that people would wish for the team to leave. Even a shit team is better than no team at all.

A night at PNC is super fun. The team has an history of over 120 years. You don't flush all of that down the toilet because Bob Nutting is a cheap piece of shit.
You stay away because he's a cheap POS who's only going to pass down the reins to his daughter and keep this rein of terror going long after I'm gone. I've been gone for the most part since 2007, 17 years removed of a more than 30+ years 162 game fan.

The whole team history loses value when that's all you have is 17 years of sorrow and mismanagement and crooked ownership.

I won't be suckered again. Just remember we tax payers help fund that POS's stadium. Like 147.0 worth while the team only forked over 40.0 and the rest was a state grant of 75.0.

This scum profits off of us each and every year while not giving back shit worth discussing.

I'd gladly go down and demo a few blocks worth or more of my tax money used to help billionaires get to be bigger billionaires. just remember that number 147.0. The Nuthing's deserve no help but people still give him profits forgetting we already paid our share.

If it takes moving to remove these greedy POS's, then that's what it takes. Keep the naming team rights and push 'em out 2030. See you never.

You can always start over. It's like staying in a bad marriage. Why? Because of a stadium built with our own money. This city has thrown much more away for lesser things in its 200+ history.

You can come down and treat it like "A Field Of Dreams" remake and watch all the Pirate greats come from out of the outfield walls and pitching dugouts and have a much better time.
Roberto Clemente throws the ball all the way from the warning track to home plate for the out...!

VN2HMBO.png
 
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ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
19,189
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Oblivion Express
Then stop watching the team then? Crazy thought.

Look, things are shit with this team right now and it likely won't get better with Nutting as the owner, but to cheer for the team to move rather than continue to be owned by Nutting is downright absurd. Just stop paying attention to the Pirates if you hate the Nutting owned Pirates so much.

The chance of them moving after the lease is up is very real, but to say that you'd rather have that happen is downright ridiculous.

I'd rather have them moved, than continue watching a shit product, year after year.

That's the difference. And one you failed to decipher from my post, along with the people who are liking your rebuttal.

If the team showed some signs of life, aptitude for developing winning baseball, of course, keep the team around. People will show up. People will invest. I don't even expect a winner every year. That's a ridiculous position.

But we know what we're getting and I find the "oh well, shit is better than having nothing at all" to be the most pathetic hill to die on. IMHO, it is absolutely more of an embarrassment and drag to have a team that will never compete vs just not having one.

Other small market teams can win. We can't. That means Nutting, who hires the people who hire the rest of the people, is not only cheap. He's an absolute moron as it relates to baseball.

I will continue to hope this team is moved unless something changes significantly between now and 2030. It's a stain on the city and professional sports in general.
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
84,830
85,168
Redmond, WA
I'd rather have them moved, than continue watching a shit product, year after year.

Then just stop watching them. Saying that fans should lose their team because "I don't like the product I'm watching" is downright insanity.

If you hate the Nutting owned Pirates so much, just stop paying attention to them. Cheering for them to move just because "I don't like the product" is one of the most selfish things I've ever seen posted on this site.
 

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