OT: Pirates Talk: That Skenes guy is okay at teh baseball

[Big McLargehuge]

I mean, I was at the Blackout game and it was a hell of a night. It's also unbelievably pathetic that winning a game that, checks notes, got the Pirates into the divisional playoff round is the greatest moment of the franchise in the last 30 years.

Amen, brother.

That moment was far and away the highlight of my life as a Pirates fan and that fact makes me so f***ing angry.

We need to clean house, but then Nutting would have to pay multiple people to do the same job! We can't have a billionaire spending his money!!!

A pox on the entire Nutting lineage.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I know people are mad about Shelton coming back next year, but this feels more like a "Shero ties his fate to Bylsma" situation more than anything. If the team doesn't improve next year, I'm convinced both Shelton and Cherington are fired. Cherington could have given himself a few more years with a new manager if he would have fired Shelton now, but I think Cherington tied himself to Shelton now and both are going to be axed after next year if things don't improve.

 

[cookthebooks]

why put it off until next year though? this was the make or break year and they decisively broke

 

[Empoleon8771]

why put it off until next year though? this was the make or break year and they decisively broke

I don't see why this year was the "make or break" year. I don't think they went into this year anticipating that Skenes and Jones would immediately be as good as they were. If they went into last year thinking it was a "make or break" year, they didn't make any moves last off-season to suggest that's the case.

I'm not a Cherington or Shelton defender, but I don't mind them getting one more off-season with knowing what they have in their starting rotation.

 

[TooManyHumans]

I don't see why this year was the "make or break" year. I don't think they went into this year anticipating that Skenes and Jones would immediately be as good as they were. If they went into last year thinking it was a "make or break" year, they didn't make any moves last off-season to suggest that's the case.

I'm not a Cherington or Shelton defender, but I don't mind them getting one more off-season with knowing what they have in their starting rotation.

What exactly have they done to make you not mind them getting another crack at it? Other than lucking into Skenes they have done basically nothing to make this team better. As you point out, they didn't make any moves in the off-season last year to make the team better. They will act the same this year as it is all they know. Cherington will sign some failed players hoping they turn it around so he can look like a genius. He will fail at this yet again.

 

[Empoleon8771]

What exactly have they done to make you not mind them getting another crack at it? Other than lucking into Skenes they have done basically nothing to make this team better. As you point out, they didn't make any moves in the off-season last year to make the team better. They will act the same this year as it is all they know. Cherington will sign some failed players hoping they turn it around so he can look like a genius. He will fail at this yet again.

Because I have no reason to think Cherington will be fired this off-season, so if the choice is "Cherington fires Shelton but gets extra immunity for the next 3 years" or "Cherington ties himself to Shelton and both get fired next year if things don't get better", I'm picking the second.

I just don't think this year was a "make or break" year, and him firing Shelton now would give him extra immunity that I don't really want him to have.

 

[TooManyHumans]

Because I have no reason to think Cherington will be fired this off-season, so if the choice is "Cherington fires Shelton but gets extra immunity for the next 3 years" or "Cherington ties himself to Shelton and both get fired next year if things don't get better", I'm picking the second.

I just don't think this year was a "make or break" year, and him firing Shelton now would give him extra immunity that I don't really want him to have.

Ok, I thought you were arguing that Cherington has done something to deserve to come back. I agree that firing Shelton means nothing if Cherington is still here. However, I don't assume that he will be gone after next year if they fall flat on their faces again. I am not sure why one more bad finish would be enough when all the bad finishes so far haven't been.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Ok, I thought you were arguing that Cherington has done something to deserve to come back. I agree that firing Shelton means nothing if Cherington is still here. However, I don't assume that he will be gone after next year if they fall flat on their faces again. I am not sure why one more bad finish would be enough when all the bad finishes so far haven't been.

I could be wrong, but like I posted earlier, I feel like Cherington is tying himself to Shelton like Shero tied himself to Bylsma. I think Cherington is saying this "we'll have to be responsible together" idea that makes me think that the two will be fired together. I think Shelton is definitely out if things don't improve next year, but I think Cherington is tying his fate to Shelton's fate with some of his comments.

 

[TooManyHumans]

I could be wrong, but like I posted earlier, I feel like Cherington is tying himself to Shelton like Shero tied himself to Bylsma. I think Cherington is saying this "we'll have to be responsible together" idea that makes me think that the two will be fired together. I think Shelton is definitely out if things don't improve next year, but I think Cherington is tying his fate to Shelton's fate with some of his comments.

I hope so. I have no faith in ownership to recognize the right thing to do or to do it.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

I'm looking forward to the city not caving and the team not existing once the lease is up in just over half a decade.

The fact that basically no one of importance was fired, still, is the final nail in the coffin as to what this franchise represents. Numerous other teams cast away losers and yet Cherington and Shelton are on blank check contracts.

Is there a situation where the team leaves and we get a new one (and new ownership more importantly) thru expansion a la Cleveland Browns? Only hiccup with that would be zero plans for expansion for the foreseeable future.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Is there a situation where the team leaves and we get a new one (and new ownership more importantly) thru expansion a la Cleveland Browns? Only hiccup with that would be zero plans for expansion for the foreseeable future.

No chance. They're simply taking a team from a weak market with poor ownership and transferring it to somewhere with a bigger audience = more money for the team and MLB.

I don't think the city will vote to approve public funding for a new lease based on the track record of Nutting and it's not like the history of this team over the past 40 year is anything to cherish. There has not been a bigger embarrassment in baseball since 1980.

I'd seriously, 100%, rather see the team sold and moved vs enduring the same song and dance year after year. It's pathetic.

 

[Empoleon8771]

No chance. They're simply taking a team from a weak market with poor ownership and transferring it to somewhere with a bigger audience = more money for the team and MLB.

I don't think the city will vote to approve public funding for a new lease based on the track record of Nutting and it's not like the history of this team over the past 40 year is anything to cherish. There has not been a bigger embarrassment in baseball since 1980.

I'd seriously, 100%, rather see the team sold and moved vs enduring the same song and dance year after year. It's pathetic.

Then stop watching the team then? Crazy thought.

Look, things are shit with this team right now and it likely won't get better with Nutting as the owner, but to cheer for the team to move rather than continue to be owned by Nutting is downright absurd. Just stop paying attention to the Pirates if you hate the Nutting owned Pirates so much.

The chance of them moving after the lease is up is very real, but to say that you'd rather have that happen is downright ridiculous.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

Bob Nutting should have sat down with Cherington and asked him for an assessment of the free agent money he was given to spend.

At that point, he should have been shown the door.

If Nutting did have that discussion and still kept Cherington, he didn't fire him because he didn't want to eat the money he would have to eat on whatever extension he gave Cherington.

If they have an April similar to this past August, heads better start rolling, either literally, or figuratively.

 

[Ugene Magic]

The GM/HC are put into a restrictive stance from the getgo. They were hired to be fired. They were certainly not brought in to be inspired.

Just keep the fan rate to 5000/15000 rate up 'til August. Profit.