If you are making assumptions on what a player is off a debut of 7-8 starts then I don't know what to tell you. There were plenty of people trying to pump the brakes. There are maybe less than 10-15 #1s in the league so I don't know how people would even assume that.
OT: Pirates Talk: That Skenes guy is okay at teh baseball
- Thread starter Zirakzigil
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If you are making assumptions on what a player is off a debut of 7-8 starts then I don't know what to tell you. There were plenty of people trying to pump the brakes. There are maybe less than 10-15 #1s in the league so I don't know how people would even assume that.
ChaosAgent
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What are my sources of optimism next year. Is it Skenes, Jones, Chandler? But then to your point we can't expect Chandler to actually be good in 2025 because look at the net results with Jones.
I guess I was the only one who thought Jones was a TOR starter early on. I am sure post histories of the expectation-lowerers would confirm it.
Jaded-Fan
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You miss the point.Take it for what it's worth since it's from DK:
Pittsburgh Steelers, Penguins, Pirates News, Live Coverage | DK Pittsburgh Sports
Pittsburgh Steelers, Penguins, Pirates News, Live Coverage | DK Pittsburgh Sportswww.dkpittsburghsports.com
That was more about the Shelton parts, makes me at least think that he's not as safe as Cherington suggested. Also apparently Tellez was a prick that no one will miss, and his DFAing was just Cherington being an idiot and tone deaf for what the reaction would be. Nutting had nothing to do with it.
It does not really matter if Nutting had his mitts on this particular transaction or not. It is the perception that is the issue.
The Pirates once more have the second lowest payroll in MLB. One fifth of the highest payroll:
2024 MLB Team Salary Payroll Tracker
A real-time look at the 2024 salary payroll totals for each MLB team..
www.spotrac.com
The story made national news as it is a microcosm of the deserved rep Nutting has around the country.
I said that it could trigger another investigation of the Pirates' payroll, and I stand by that. The league obviously does not care that a handful of teams do this. The players barely care. They love this system. But both hate the national attention.
That is the point.
bigdaddyk88
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Jones hasn’t even made the jump ortiz or Keller made. Jones is still primarily a 2 pitch pitcher who like Ortiz needed to develop a 3rd znd 4th pitch. Ortiz made the Keller jump where he learned to pitch and not be a thrower
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ChaosAgent
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Yes, Ortiz is actually difficult to face and had a better season than Keller has ever had. It is great that we correctly chose Ortiz out of the Contreras, Priester, Ortiz sweepstakes. Unfortunate that we also chose Keller, although as you say, maybe we trade him before he goes full Homer Bailey in Cincinnati.
Factorial
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GilbertSeinfeld
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Gonzales had a solo homer, too, but yea, Reynolds has a legit shot at passing 90 RBI's.
Factorial
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wheelz87
LGP
GilbertSeinfeld
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They are going to do something stupid like sweep the Yankees and save Shelton's job, aren't they?
Just before Reynolds hit his first.
Coastal Kev
There will be "I told you so's" Bet on it
Empoleon8771
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Yeah I was expecting more power out of him but the average and speed combination is really appealing as a lead off guy. He was great at drawing walks in the minors that hasn’t translated to the majors yet, him adding that would make him a great lead off guy.
Gonzales is a really intriguing 2B going forward because he has shown basically everything outside of HR power in the minors (speed, defense, hitting for average and gap power). If he can somehow manage to put all of that together in the majors, he'd be a terrific 2B.
Factorial
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ChaosAgent
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Gonzales is developing nicely. He has power but hasn't hit for it, yet I am still optimistic.
I think Yorke and Gonzales could both be good players, albeit they haven't reached that level yet. The Pirates should still add an infielder somewhere and drop Hayes for anyone who will take his contract. But I feel comfortable in saying at least one of Yorke and Nick G should start next year.
Triolo can't be counted on to start but he is comfortably a roster player who can play all the infield positions well.
Empoleon8771
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Yeah like I edited in there, I don't think he has huge HR power upside but he absolutely has gap double/triple power upside. I don't think he'll ever be more than a 10-15 HR guy at best, but he'd be a legitimately great 2B if he can translate his plate discipline and gap power he has shown in the minors. Hell, even just getting one of them would make him really good.
He has been showing that in the past stretch of games though, his last 15 games have him with a .296/.377/.444 slash line with a 10% BB/PA ratio. He has a minors slash line of .292/.388/.518 and 12% BB/PA ratio, so this recent stretch doesn't even seem too far beyond what he could be in the MLB.
ChaosAgent
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Shout out to Reynolds in winning that game for us.
It's really cool to see switch hitters go deep from each side. Reynolds looks less natural and isn't as good from the right side, but he has serious power especially to right center. Kinda like Josh Bell - it's an entirely different swing.
It's really cool to see switch hitters go deep from each side. Reynolds looks less natural and isn't as good from the right side, but he has serious power especially to right center. Kinda like Josh Bell - it's an entirely different swing.
ChaosAgent
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I think he has a lot of power upside, but for now he isn't selling out for it. Or he isn't focusing on it.
I think the really good hitters go into power mode when they get the chance and go into contact mode when it's pragmatic. Gonzales has the look of someone who has the potential to do both, but it's hard to do it when the ball is coming at you at 96 MPH. I am normally not a big believer in development stories but Gonzales' improvement even from 2023 to the start of 2024 tells me that he has another gear of offensive productivity. Will he reach it? Not sure.
Empoleon8771
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Also on Yorke, I honestly don’t see a spot for him in the infield (unless you keep Gonzales at SS which I don’t think he has the arm to be) but he’s at least going to be a professional hitter with passable defense in LF. This team has dealt with Reynolds’ awful defense in LF for the last 2 years, I really doubt Yorke would be a bigger issue than that. He actually reminds me of Reynolds in the sense that you can describe him as “the dude can simply hit”. I’ve been super critical of Cherington but the Priester for Yorke deal is going to end up a great deal for him IMO.
I’m not going to focus too much on their offseason needs right now, but I do have Gonzales as their 2B and Yorke as their LF for next year. Gonzales is a no brainer but Yorke is more of a “he’ll earn it in spring training” thought. I think it’s too early to pencil Yorke into that role right now but I think he’s going to crush it in spring training and get the role that way.
I’m not going to focus too much on their offseason needs right now, but I do have Gonzales as their 2B and Yorke as their LF for next year. Gonzales is a no brainer but Yorke is more of a “he’ll earn it in spring training” thought. I think it’s too early to pencil Yorke into that role right now but I think he’s going to crush it in spring training and get the role that way.
ChaosAgent
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To me I just want them to add external players. Probably 2 guys, a lefty 1B (again, again, again) and someone else. I'll just be single minded in demanding the payroll to be higher and I don't care who it's blocking honestly.
Get an external player to make Gonzales and Yorke fight for a position, to relegate BDLC to the bench, to not guarantee IKF a starting spot etc. Maybe to make Endy the backup catcher. I like both Gonzales and Yorke but on a contending team they should not be guaranteed starters.
I agree with you that Priester for Yorke was Cherington's best move of the season handily.
I also don't think Reynolds to 1B is as much of a foregone conclusion as you are making it.
1) His fielding is better based on the eye test than the metrics. I realize the eye test underrates range by its nature. But Reynolds does not appear to be a "cover your eyes bad defender" on TV.
2) RF is an option at PNC.
3) 1B is not easy per se especially picking balls out of the dirt. I don't want to assume that any outfielder can step in and do it.
4) They have so little in OF that moving Reynolds to the dirt means they are going to have to seriously invest there.
WickedWrister
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Struck out Chisholm later with the same inside fastball. Thought it was going to hit him
Struck out Chisholm later with the same inside fastball. Thought it was going to hit him
They only let him pitch 2 innings in his first appearance at his future home Yankee Stadium for some inexplicable reason. This team makes me absolutely sick to my stomach.
TooManyHumans
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Yeah, I don't understand why they thought he was good to go but for only two innings. Whatever. I am so tired of this organization being run by losers.
WickedWrister
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He must have had some incentives kick in at 135 IP
133 IP
170 K
1.96 ERA
0.95 WHIP
11.5 K/9
Last I checked before odds got pulled on FD/DK he was a -150 favorite for NL ROTY
133 IP
170 K
1.96 ERA
0.95 WHIP
11.5 K/9
Last I checked before odds got pulled on FD/DK he was a -150 favorite for NL ROTY
bigdaddyk88
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I do like Burrows getting a run wondering if Bubba pitches tomorrow to get a taste of the big leagues
