Phoenix XXIV: How many twists does the scriptwriter have left?

[Ciao]

There have been more than enough twists to make the title for this thread a good one. Who would have known?

 

[davemac1313]

Next Post Title

Guilty...By Reason of Insanity

 

[Killion]

On top of that, he's not even a local citizen. Probably some Western Canadian. Geez.

What on earth are you talking about RAgin?. The guy claims to be a taxpayer in Glendale, and what do you mean "probably a Western....".?!, From where & why?.

 

[Ciao]

If this lawsuit isn't Bettman/the NHL's "screw it, enough is enough" moment, I don't know what I'll do.

It reminds me of someone I knew who took a chainsaw and sawed the house in half, smashed the drywall and the plumbing with sledgehammers and shoved the snowmobile down the well when the family law proceedings weren't going so well. Scorched earth.

I don't imagine this lawsuit will help keep the team in Glendale one bit.

 

[bacon25]

So the COG is suing GWI so that they can hopefully get out of it enough to buy the 100 million in bonds to pay Hulsizer to buy the team? Is that about right. This is the kind of news story that just keeps on giving. Lawyers in the Greater Phoenix area start licking your chops.

 

[RAgIn]

What on earth are you talking about RAgin?. The guy claims to be a taxpayer in Glendale, and what do you mean "probably a Western....".?!, From where & why?.

He's an 'Arizona tax-payer'. I don't know, if you live there 6 months a year, I think that counts All I'm saying is lots of individuals (council meetings and or opinion pieces) have written about this deal, saying they need to save Westgate and Jobbing.com and so on, but often, they don't even live in Glendale. It's just something that irates me. But I guess we can flip that scenario and say Canadians often say the deal is bad, etc. Conclusion? Nodda.

 

[Killion]

I don't imagine this lawsuit will help keep the team in Glendale one bit.

Its' like suing the local Boy Scout Troup for a half a billion dollars because the Apple you bought from them had a bruise on it. Further claiming said bruise was a portrait of Beelzubub, which so disturbed your piece of mind that the only thing for it was hitting the road in a smokin primer coated Olds 442 and a 12 state 3 province killing spree....

 

[Killion]

Conclusion? Nodda.

Oh. I see.

 

[Jesus Christ Horburn]

There have been more than enough twists to make the title for this thread a good one. Who would have known?

I proposed this earlier in the thread, but how about:

Phoenix XXV: Charlie Sheen v. Goldwater Institute

 

[Winnipeg Jets]

Wow, what a joke this is becoming.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

I proposed this earlier in the thread, but how about:

Phoenix XXV: Charlie Sheen v. Goldwater Institute

How dare you besmirch the good name of Charlie Sheen.

GHOST

 

[jamwires]

I dig the Charlie Sheen title.

 

[Jeffrey93]

I proposed this earlier in the thread, but how about:

Phoenix XXV: Charlie Sheen v. Goldwater Institute

I'm sure that would raise a few eyebrows when a Google search of 'Charlie Sheen' brings up a hockey thread about the Phoenix Coyotes.

Charlie Sheen is bi-winning though....I don't think Glendale is going to win much of anything....that city doesn't seem to have Tiger's blood & Adonis DNA either....

Back on-topic....if the NHL planned on getting out of dodge the moment a lawsuit is filed (by whoever...whomever?) wouldn't Glendale know this? You would think they would be 'in the know' about what the NHL is willing to put up with and what they aren't...as well as what Hulsizer is willing to put up with. I have to believe one of them, if not both, will bail the moment this goes back into the courts.

It is in the agreement that if GWI sues...Hulsizer can bail, right? Wouldn't the basic reasoning for that part of the agreement cause him to also bail if Glendale sues? I can't see Glendale suing Goldwater and then issuing the bonds that they are suing about not being able to issue because of Goldwater.

But then again....they have done/want to do crazier things than that.

 

[Niagara67]

Evil Canadian media article from G&M...

So anywhere NHL hockey was being played this past weekend, the chatter among reporters and agents and team officials was that the announcement of the Coyotes’ relocation to Winnipeg was both inevitable and imminent.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...-prayers-about-to-be-answered/article1931713/

There goes "imminent" again

 

[peter sullivan]

It's pretty obvious that this lawsuit will never see the light of day. It is purely a last ditch effort to get Goldwater to back down. It's a scare tactic. The threat of litigation killed the bond issue and now Glendale is hoping the threat of their own lawsuit will bring it back to life.

No way it ever actually becomes a real lawsuit.

 

[kdb209]

Under the MUDA, Ellman was given control of the parking lots. However, under the AMULA, signed by Moyes, the team had to pay the city of Glendale something like $2 for every car parked at the arena, though the team never charged for parking. Wonder why they were losing money?

Actually, it was a ticket surcharge (in lieu of collecting parking) - $2.60 for every ticket sold - not an explicit per car parking charge.

 

[Jeffrey93]

Under the MUDA, Ellman was given control of the parking lots. However, under the AMULA, signed by Moyes, the team had to pay the city of Glendale something like $2 for every car parked at the arena, though the team never charged for parking. Wonder why they were losing money?

Now, Glendale wants to gain the rights to manage the parking exclusively (instead of taking a flat $2 fee through the AMULA) and for all events/times. I understand that this seems like this seems as though Glendale is buying something they already own, it is my understanding they permanently signed away the rights to the lot to Ellman, and as a way of collecting revenue from the Coyotes success tacked on the per-car fee to the AMULA. It was an easier way of paying off the arena debt than doing a flat excise tax or CFD at the time, I'm assuming.

Why isn't it up to Ellman who gets the parking rights then?

And if the parking rights were given to Ellman under the MUDA....why can Glendale & Moyes/Hulsizer/Whoever agree to different terms for those rights?

It seems to me like under the AMULA with Moyes he was paying Glendale for the rights to parking (which he never charged fans for) at the tune of $2/car. But now Glendale has to pay somebody to get the rights back under a new AMULA?

 

[Dolemite]

Editorial

http://coyotes.azvibe.com/2011/03/0...usiness-outcomes-with-no-business-experience/

 

[RR]

Yes, Othmar (or maybe Whileee) did some calcs earlier. I think part of the problem is that we're approximating, while COG had a hard ceiling of 9%. MH did say "about" iirc.

Honestly, I'm not hanging my hat on either position--- that all buyers were scared off or that the rate really was much higher than they could or wanted to go. I'm just speculating based on the limited info we have.

I wouldn't even call it "limited info that we have." What do we know since the purchase out of BK?

1) The NHL owns the Coyotes.

2) A guy from Chicago wants to buy them and keep them in Glendale.

3) He needs the COG to work with him on a lease to make it financially feasible.

4) The Goldwater Institute has told us they'll be closing monitoring any deal.

5) And a Canadian billionaire is ready and willing to buy the team and move it to Canada.

BTW, Fugu, my answer is NO to the "Dark Side" if the Coyotes move. Because if I switched allegiance, were the Wings to sink to the depths of mediocrity or worse, Wings Nation will bail like those on the Titanic, and I'll find myself, again, rooting for an NHL laughingstock. Too risky.

 

[Dado]

Editorial

http://coyotes.azvibe.com/2011/03/0...usiness-outcomes-with-no-business-experience/

Good lord, I've seen ESL homework assignments with better grammar...

 

[htpwn]

Editorial

http://coyotes.azvibe.com/2011/03/0...usiness-outcomes-with-no-business-experience/

The Goldwater Institute has established themselves as an expert in political matters and churning out pro-Goldwater Institute press in a manner that resembles a propaganda campaign

Glendale has been doing the exact same thing...

 

[RR]

Assuming that the CoG does in fact file suit on Monday March 7th AND the true NHL deadline in March 15th, does anyone thing that the courts can make a ruling on this in 8 days?

Yes.

And what if the GWI files thier suit?

The Coyotes are on their way to a new location assuming someone will pay a sales price that, at a minimum, makes the NHL whole on its transaction, as GB promised to the BOG.

I'll throw my speculation into the mix. I preface this by acknowledging this is in part based on media reports that I am prepared to consider accurate. Nothing stated here, no matter how it is phrased, should be mistaken as the presentation of fact.

- The NHL is actively promoting the bond sale and it's reasonable to think they can successfully find a small handful of investors to buy the bond at a lucrative interest rate.

- It makes no difference what that interest rate is. Glendale (ie- Scruggs, 3 Council Members) have already sold themselves for this deal. They will support any amount if the result is keeping the team.

- The lawsuit against Goldwater is likely a loser. Glendale is likely aware of that. However, filing such a claim would be a significant chip to play politically. Assuming the NHL finds the investors and Glendale eats the interest, when the bill comes due and Glendale has no means to pay, Scruggs & Co. can point at Goldwater and their attempt to prevent the higher interest rate by legal action.

- Goldwater's suit for violation of Gift Clause, if filed, is also likely a loser. Goldwater is likely aware of that. However, much like Glendale, Goldwater has gone too far down the road to abandon their position. While they may never file a complaint, they are unlikely to respond to Glendale's litigation threat by surrendering.

Or in summary, the NHL will facilitate the sale of the bonds at a insane interest rate; Glendale will eat the extra cost and turn around and sue Goldwater; they'll lose the suit but use the filing to protect their political lives; Goldwater will not file a claim for Gift Clause violation.

And if I'm wrong... sue me!

If we get to that point will you still be hawking beads at SFO? Don't want to make the trip if you won't be there.

 

[Dolemite]

Good lord, I've seen ESL homework assignments with better grammar...

Try it now. Posted an early edit of the article by accident.

 

[RR]

...They had been "interfering" for long before that in their public statements from way back to JR. The letters to the underwriters, who are not the end bond purchasers, was simply a restatement of their opinion. And it will be difficult since CoG went out and got their own legal opinion as the legality of the contracts. So it can be said that the CoG engaged GI into the bond issuance...

But is there a difference between a general public statement made directly to the Media, and that of a targeted mailing to a specific interest group that could immediately impact the deal?

A question, not a statement.

One of GI's mandates is to ensure that the government doesn't use taxpayer funds for private business subsidies in AZ.

I'd be more comfortable with, "One of GWIs ("self-imposed") mandates..."

Saying GWI has received some kind of "mandate" (a command or instruction from a majority of the electorate; or authority bestowed specifically on an organization through an electoral victory, to carry out public policies it campaigned on), is nonsense.

Perhaps you either have a different understanding of the term "mandate" than I do, or you used the wrong word. If it's the latter, I apologize.

New Globe and Mail article.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...-prayers-about-to-be-answered/article1931713/

Perhaps there are some interesting assertions or newly sourced information in this opinion piece (not a criticism, just fact), but this stopped me in my tracks:

Even if Goldwater was in the business of partisan electoral politics – which, strictly speaking, it is not – there would be precious little for it to gain here.

I know Brunt 's defense is, "Hey, I said 'strictly speaking,'" so he can CHA on such a ludicrous statement. Anyone with even a remote understanding of what GWI is about and who underwrites the group, would surely laugh so hysterically they'd risk death by heart attack.

I have a question regarding the arena parking.
According to this old article:
New Hockey Arena Will be Ready for 2003-04 Season
Glendale Officials Step Up to Keep NHL Coytoes in the Valley of the Sun

http://hockey.ballparks.com/NHL/PhoenixCoyotes/newindex.htm

Upon completion of the arena in 2003, the city will reimburse Ellman for all associated construction costs up to $180 million and will become the owner of the arena. Both the Coyotes and Glendale will use the arena for other public uses throughout the year.

The arena will be funded from taxes generated from the site, from General Obligation bonds earmarked for related projects, parking revenues and other dedicated revenue streams. Funding for this project will not affect current city services or delay any planned projects.

The question I have is how can parking revenue be pledged to initially pay for the arena (still paying off the bonds for this purchase) and now again be pledged to repay the Hulsizer bond issue?

First, the Arena IS funded by "parking revenues." In exchange for Ellman being granted the rights to charge for parking, he was to pay an escalating per-ticket fee to the COG over the term of the 30-year lease as a parking surcharge. At least that's my understanding.

And in the new lease with Hulsizer, he will continue to pay that "surcharge," while selling his rights to charge for parking to the COG.

 

[william_adams]

I wouldn't even call it "limited info that we have." What do we know since the purchase out of BK?

1) The NHL owns the Coyotes.

2) A guy from Chicago wants to buy them and keep them in Glendale.

3) He needs the COG to work with him on a lease to make it financially feasible.

4) The Goldwater Institute has told us they'll be closing monitoring any deal.

5) And a Canadian billionaire is ready and willing to buy the team and move it to Canada.

BTW, Fugu, my answer is NO to the "Dark Side" if the Coyotes move. Because if I switched allegiance, were the Wings to sink to the depths of mediocrity or worse, Wings Nation will bail like those on the Titanic, and I'll find myself, again, rooting for an NHL laughingstock. Too risky.

Excellent fact-based summary.

It really not unlike a love story where the girl needs her current boyfriend to change a bit or else she gives up and goes back to her ex. Who does she really love? That's what we're all arguing about!