Phoenix XXIV: How many twists does the scriptwriter have left?

[Dalton]

Since it appears resolution is on the horizon... should the next thread be

Phx XXV: "The End of the Imminence"?

Phx XXV: "Phoenix Fiasco Finale. Whither Bettman?"

 

[goyotes]

Let's see, last week I said:

The GWI had standing to file a claim at any time. (Check, as confirmed by the GWI.)

The GWI will not file suit. (Check.)

The CoG will sue for Tortious Interference with a Prospective Business Relationship. (Check in the mail pending a review of the docket later today.)

The CoG will bring a D & O action against the GWI Board. (Check.)

The CoG will claim damages of either the increased costs of selling the bonds or the damages resulting from the Coyotes leaving. (Check.)


For those of you who would pooh pooh (a legal term) the tortious interference claim, I submit that based only upon the evidence available, I would take that case on a contingent fee. I have prosecuted cases that I didn't believe were as strong as this case. Additionally, the damages are enormous and if an E & O or D & O carrier comes in to defend the claim, they are going to look to do whatever is necessary to resolve the exposure. If the GWI is wrong on the constitutionality of the transaction, I believe they get hammered for their conduct. Oh, also Ms. Siren is basically a fourth year associate from Wake Forest law school. The fact she is the point person for the GWI would really trouble me if I were on the GWI Board.

Further speculation for this week. The NHL was very much aware of this suit, and has no intention of bailing because of the fact that the suit was filed. If they bail, it is because the bonds cannot be sold this week for an interest rate the CoG can accept. I also believe the CoG will find investors at up to the 9% rate, otherwise their would be an agenda item to vote on whether to go to 10%, 11%...whatever. Because this is not a topic for discussion at the council meeting, I think they can sell the bonds for a rate currently authorized. What I think the CoG is doing, is trying to mitigate their damages by getting the best rate possible. Time has basically run out, and the bonds will be sold for something in the range of 8 - 9%.

To that point, I also speculate that the NHL and CoG find a couple of sharks who will purchase the bonds for an interest rate at or near 9%. The Coyotes will stay, the NHL will approve MH via a conference call of the Board, and the deal will close. Per the terms of the GWI clause in the lease, MH cannot void the lease unless the GWI prevails, and even after that, the CoG has a 120 window to cure anything wrong with the lease.

The GWI and the CoG will be in litigation for another perhaps another year, and relocationists will continue to wait for the Coyotes' time to run out. We will be on Thread 150 when a sudden end will come to the discussion as the NHL and TSNE announce either; 1) Atlanta is relocating to Winnipeg, or 2) the NHL is granting expansion teams to Winnipeg and KC, so the owners can cash in on the half billion dollars in new team expansion fees.

Just my speculation. Let's see if sometime next week the picture becomes clearer.

 

[AllByDesign]

Goyotes... not that I have argued against your prediction of litigiation by the COG, but shouldn't you wait until the suit has commenced before you declare victory?

 

[The Pouzar]

I seem to remember the Anaheim owner breaking ranks if memory serves.

I've seen your statement about Balsillie and Rodier posted before but I've never seen anything but posters opinions as an explanation of what it means.

In any event I'm saying Bettman should have looked into a deal way back then, not during the Phoenix fiasco.

You got a guy with deep pockets who wants a team. Was this ever explored by Bettman or did he just panic because the team's location was not conducive to his TV contract aspirations?

All I see today is the chicken coming home to roost. Will Bettman really give the team to Winnipeg? I think not.

The expansion to the South was well under way before G.Bettman took over at the helm. It was feuled by owners chasing the expansion fee without alot of foresight which was typical of most decisions from the Ziegler era.
WRT to Balsillie and PHX it was not anti-Canada as many are so willing to suggest but about the ability of a private business to determine where it's members operate and how they gian admission to the club. Had JB purchased a struggling club and run it in a honest and forth right manner , IMO he would've been able to relocate the team after a prerequisite amount of time. He didn't follow the accepted practices of the NHL and now is on the outside looking in.

 

[Dalton]

Let's see, last week I said:

The GWI had standing to file a claim at any time. (Check, as confirmed by the GWI.)

The GWI will not file suit. (Check.)

The CoG will sue for Tortious Interference with a Prospective Business Relationship. (Check in the mail pending a review of the docket later today.)

The CoG will bring a D & O action against the GWI Board. (Check.)

The CoG will claim damages of either the increased costs of selling the bonds or the damages resulting from the Coyotes leaving. (Check.)


For those of you who would pooh pooh (a legal term) the tortious interference claim, I submit that based only upon the evidence available, I would take that case on a contingent fee. I have prosecuted cases that I didn't believe were as strong as this case. Additionally, the damages are enormous and if an E & O or D & O carrier comes in to defend the claim, they are going to look to do whatever is necessary to resolve the exposure. If the GWI is wrong on the constitutionality of the transaction, I believe they get hammered for their conduct. Oh, also Ms. Siren is basically a fourth year associate from Wake Forest law school. The fact she is the point person for the GWI would really trouble me if I were on the GWI Board.

Further speculation for this week. The NHL was very much aware of this suit, and has no intention of bailing because of the fact that the suit was filed. If they bail, it is because the bonds cannot be sold this week for an interest rate the CoG can accept. I also believe the CoG will find investors at up to the 9% rate, otherwise their would be an agenda item to vote on whether to go to 10%, 11%...whatever. Because this is not a topic for discussion at the council meeting, I think they can sell the bonds for a rate currently authorized. What I think the CoG is doing, is trying to mitigate their damages by getting the best rate possible. Time has basically run out, and the bonds will be sold for something in the range of 8 - 9%.

To that point, I also speculate that the NHL and CoG find a couple of sharks who will purchase the bonds for an interest rate at or near 9%. The Coyotes will stay, the NHL will approve MH via a conference call of the Board, and the deal will close. Per the terms of the GWI clause in the lease, MH cannot void the lease unless the GWI prevails, and even after that, the CoG has a 120 window to cure anything wrong with the lease.

The GWI and the CoG will be in litigation for another perhaps another year, and relocationists will continue to wait for the Coyotes' time to run out. We will be on Thread 150 when a sudden end will come to the discussion as the NHL and TSNE announce either; 1) Atlanta is relocating to Winnipeg, or 2) the NHL is granting expansion teams to Winnipeg and KC, so the owners can cash in on the half billion dollars in new team expansion fees.

Just my speculation. Let's see if sometime next week the picture becomes clearer.

I doubt the NHL expands into Canada. I do believe that the threat to sue by the GWI is just inconvenient not a deal breaker.

 

[goyotes]

Goyotes... not that I have argued against your prediction of litigiation by the COG, but shouldn't you wait until the suit has commenced before you declare victory?

This was in jest and tongue in cheek. I was only "speculating" as to the outcome. The truth is, I see this as very much an uphill battle for the Coyotes to stay.

The only thing I believe is certain, is that the legal issue will create another open sore for the CoG and the Coyote fans.

One interesting note, I believe aside from the GWI, just about every media organization (with the exception of a lone columnist), has come out in favor of this deal. Most of the sports wrap up shows last night ended with an editorial to the GWI to back off and consider the financial hardship they are creating by their position. They may be late to the party, but the public is starting to recognize the effect of the GWI's position, and in a state where the GWI is cultivated, even traditional GWI backers are starting to bash them. I would not be surprised to see John McCain come out publically in favor of this deal. It has been suggested he has had private conversations with the GWI to express his concern.

 

[Acesolid]

Phx XXV: "Phoenix Fiasco Finale. Whither Bettman?"

I think the best one would be:

'Phoenix XXV: Milliseconds to midnight"

I really feel this might just be the final one!

 

[borno87]

Let's see, last week I said:

....

The CoG will claim damages of either the increased costs of selling the bonds or the damages resulting from the Coyotes leaving. (Check.)
If COG

Further speculation for this week. The NHL was very much aware of this suit, and has no intention of bailing because of the fact that the suit was filed. If they bail, it is because the bonds cannot be sold this week for an interest rate the CoG can accept.

If CoG seeks the rediculous $500M figure that has been speculated by AZ Republic and Burnside, this is clearly a signal that NHL has told CoG that they are bailing as soon as a lawsuit is filed. IMO the CoG does not file until the NHL/MH give up on the bond sale at 9%, as the "sharks" the NHL are recruiting would most likely demand an exorbitant interest rate (Which is why they are called "sharks" in the first place).

The CoG can't sue for damages caused by the Coyotes leaving... unless of course the Coyotes actually left.

To that point, I also speculate that the NHL and CoG find a couple of sharks who will purchase the bonds for an interest rate at or near 9%. The Coyotes will stay, the NHL will approve MH via a conference call of the Board, and the deal will close. Per the terms of the GWI clause in the lease, MH cannot void the lease unless the GWI prevails, and even after that, the CoG has a 120 window to cure anything wrong with the lease.

Again, if the CoG sues GWI, GWI could/would counter sue CoG for violating the gift clause and seek an injunction to prevent the execution of the lease. If they are succesful NHL would surely bail on CoG as they are not going to hold onto the team for another 1-2 years while the legal battle is sorted out IMO.

This whole legal process is again on of those chicken and the egg scenarios and I'll leave it up to the HF legal team to sort out in posts averaging 1200 words in length. I believe Scruggs has gone on the offensive in talking about suing GWI in a strong effort to pressure GWI into backing down. It may work, it may not but there is no way CoG can sue for $500 M in damages unless the NHL has informed them MH is walking away/the deal is dead and the team is going to be moved.

 

[bacon25]

Thread suggestion: "March Madness"

And yes I stole this from college basketball, please don't sue me COG or GWI.

 

[AllByDesign]

This was in jest and tongue in cheek. I was only "speculating" as to the outcome. The truth is, I see this as very much an uphill battle for the Coyotes to stay.

The only thing I believe is certain, is that the legal issue will create another open sore for the CoG and the Coyote fans.

One interesting note, I believe aside from the GWI, just about every media organization (with the exception of a lone columnist), has come out in favor of this deal. Most of the sports wrap up shows last night ended with an editorial to the GWI to back off and consider the financial hardship they are creating by their position. They may be late to the party, but the public is starting to recognize the effect of the GWI's position, and in a state where the GWI is cultivated, even traditional GWI backers are starting to bash them. I would not be surprised to see John McCain come out publically in favor of this deal. It has been suggested he has had private conversations with the GWI to express his concern.

No doubt Goldwater has overstepped their usefulness and will ruffle feathers within their own circle as a result. I am curious about your statement in regards to the media being in favor of the deal. Saunders has been the true "expert" from the media field on this story. She has followed it closely from start to the imminent end. While her tone is been remarkably neutral, I have to say my impression from her recent TV interview gave the distinct impression that she finds the deal ... umm stretched. Sunnucks has proven to be a space cadet... other than editorials I don't recall any reports favoring the Hulsizer deal.

 

[Whileee]

Let's see, last week I said:

The GWI had standing to file a claim at any time. (Check, as confirmed by the GWI.)

The GWI will not file suit. (Check.)

The CoG will sue for Tortious Interference with a Prospective Business Relationship. (Check in the mail pending a review of the docket later today.)

The CoG will bring a D & O action against the GWI Board. (Check.)

The CoG will claim damages of either the increased costs of selling the bonds or the damages resulting from the Coyotes leaving. (Check.)


For those of you who would pooh pooh (a legal term) the tortious interference claim, I submit that based only upon the evidence available, I would take that case on a contingent fee. I have prosecuted cases that I didn't believe were as strong as this case. Additionally, the damages are enormous and if an E & O or D & O carrier comes in to defend the claim, they are going to look to do whatever is necessary to resolve the exposure. If the GWI is wrong on the constitutionality of the transaction, I believe they get hammered for their conduct. Oh, also Ms. Siren is basically a fourth year associate from Wake Forest law school. The fact she is the point person for the GWI would really trouble me if I were on the GWI Board.

Further speculation for this week. The NHL was very much aware of this suit, and has no intention of bailing because of the fact that the suit was filed. If they bail, it is because the bonds cannot be sold this week for an interest rate the CoG can accept. I also believe the CoG will find investors at up to the 9% rate, otherwise their would be an agenda item to vote on whether to go to 10%, 11%...whatever. Because this is not a topic for discussion at the council meeting, I think they can sell the bonds for a rate currently authorized. What I think the CoG is doing, is trying to mitigate their damages by getting the best rate possible. Time has basically run out, and the bonds will be sold for something in the range of 8 - 9%.

To that point, I also speculate that the NHL and CoG find a couple of sharks who will purchase the bonds for an interest rate at or near 9%. The Coyotes will stay, the NHL will approve MH via a conference call of the Board, and the deal will close. Per the terms of the GWI clause in the lease, MH cannot void the lease unless the GWI prevails, and even after that, the CoG has a 120 window to cure anything wrong with the lease.

The GWI and the CoG will be in litigation for another perhaps another year, and relocationists will continue to wait for the Coyotes' time to run out. We will be on Thread 150 when a sudden end will come to the discussion as the NHL and TSNE announce either; 1) Atlanta is relocating to Winnipeg, or 2) the NHL is granting expansion teams to Winnipeg and KC, so the owners can cash in on the half billion dollars in new team expansion fees.

Just my speculation. Let's see if sometime next week the picture becomes clearer.

Goyotes... the only part of your post that really matters for the Coyotes prospects for staying in Glendale is bolded above; the availability of investors to buy the bonds. You might well be right that they can sell these bonds in the current circumstances, but if you were a potential buyer and the COG was about to file suit, wouldn't you wait until the legal matters are settled? Isn't an actual lawsuit with an uncertain outcome even more of a risk for investors than a potential suit? In that case, if investors are already worried about the possibility of the GWI prevailing in a lawsuit, how silly is it for the COG to threaten to force this into the courts? Why not go ahead and sell the bonds and then sue, if you think you have a case?

I think a more plausible explanation is that the COG is trying to scare off the GWI with this threat of legal action. They might sue later if the deal collapses, but taking this to court is hardly the way to get investors to open their wallets in short order.

 

[Duckhole]

Goyotes took alot of crap for his predictions in this thread and he couldn't have been more right.

 

[Dalton]

The expansion to the South was well under way before G.Bettman took over at the helm. It was feuled by owners chasing the expansion fee without alot of foresight which was typical of most decisions from the Ziegler era.
WRT to Balsillie and PHX it was not anti-Canada as many are so willing to suggest but about the ability of a private business to determine where it's members operate and how they gian admission to the club. Had JB purchased a struggling club and run it in a honest and forth right manner , IMO he would've been able to relocate the team after a prerequisite amount of time. He didn't follow the accepted practices of the NHL and now is on the outside looking in.

I don't see Bettman supporting a relocation to Canada. If not then Balsillie would have been owner of the Pens under the plan you and Balsillie I believe proposed. Relocation possibility was the deal breaker if memory serves. Balsillie called out Bettman on it and now we have this.

People buying franchises in the south or wherever under Ziegler and Bettman's plan for a TV contract are merely incidental. Furthermore they illustrate the difference between a league accepting of new owners and a league accepting of new owners insofar as they fit the business plan of a national US TV contract.

 

[PitbulI]

I don't even know what to say anymore. COG is suing for what reason? Who is bashing GWI?

It all seems PR. COG can't sue unless either the deal is done and they pay higher interest rates or the deal is toast and they are suing for damages to the COG/Westage area.

COG is hoping news gets around Arizona so people come to support the deal. I feel that if the citizens of Arizona truly cared about hockey or the Coyotes, they would flock to the media or be vocal about it and that could perhaps show the GWI that people WANT the team there.

 

[Whileee]

This was in jest and tongue in cheek. I was only "speculating" as to the outcome. The truth is, I see this as very much an uphill battle for the Coyotes to stay.

The only thing I believe is certain, is that the legal issue will create another open sore for the CoG and the Coyote fans.

One interesting note, I believe aside from the GWI, just about every media organization (with the exception of a lone columnist), has come out in favor of this deal. Most of the sports wrap up shows last night ended with an editorial to the GWI to back off and consider the financial hardship they are creating by their position. They may be late to the party, but the public is starting to recognize the effect of the GWI's position, and in a state where the GWI is cultivated, even traditional GWI backers are starting to bash them. I would not be surprised to see John McCain come out publically in favor of this deal. It has been suggested he has had private conversations with the GWI to express his concern.

I see, so now noted Republicans are in favour of public subsidies and bailouts of private enterprises as long as it has a long-term benefit for the economy. I guess that Bush and Obama were right after all in with their bailouts in response to the fiscal crisis.

 

[Coach]

Goyotes took alot of crap for his predictions in this thread and he couldn't have been more right.

My favorite one of his predictions was the one where he repeated continuously that Goldwater was a non issue in this deal.

 

[goyotes]

I see, so now noted Republicans are in favour of public subsidies and bailouts of private enterprises as long as it has a long-term benefit for the economy. I guess that Bush and Obama were right after all in with their bailouts in response to the fiscal crisis.

McCain is a STH who sits about 10 rows above me. I think he will be very cautious in his comments (if he makes them public). Privately, I am told he is pissed at the GWI and the position they are taking along with the tactic they chose to employ.

 

[bleuet]

I can't believe somebody still think CoG have a case. It's a strange strange world...

 

[Free Edler]

I see, so now noted Republicans are in favour of public subsidies and bailouts of private enterprises as long as it has a long-term benefit for the economy. I guess that Bush and Obama were right after all in with their bailouts in response to the fiscal crisis.

To be fair, McCain just doesn't want to have to figure out which one of his other nine houses is within driving distance of an NHL rink.

 

[Duckhole]

My favorite one of his predictions was the one where he repeated continuously that Goldwater was a non issue in this deal.

Lol, well nobody is perfect.

 

[AllByDesign]

My favorite one of his predictions was the one where he repeated continuously that Goldwater was a non issue in this deal.

Calling someone on something that is factually innacurate is one thing, calling someones personal view on a situation in the effort to humiliate is in bad taste... in my opinion anyway.

 

[goyotes]

My favorite one of his predictions was the one where he repeated continuously that Goldwater was a non issue in this deal.

I said they would not sue even though they could sue to enjoin the sale of the bonds if their real intention was to protect the taxpayer. I was 100% right on that point. I also said the bonds would sell. I may be proven wrong on that, and I'm sure you will remind me when the time comes. I never said they were a non issue. Please cite to where I made that statement. In fact, I have acknoledged that the GWI's actions were driving up the interest rate on the bonds.

This suit was expected. You don't basically beg someone to sue you if you're not intent on having the issue resolved in the courts. The NHL knew this, and the suit may actually make it easier to convince buyers to purchase the bonds.

 

[Dalton]

McCain is a STH who sits about 10 rows above me. I think he will be very cautious in his comments (if he makes them public). Privately, I am told he is pissed at the GWI and the position they are taking along with the tactic they chose to employ.

Trying to get the CoG to follow their own state's constitution is an insidious tactic to be sure. I wonder how he feels about that other inconvenience- the US constitution?

Forgive me if I take the "my mother's cousin's sister's hairdresser's waitress' niece's boyfriend's penpal told me" argument with a grain of salt.

 

[OthmarAmmann]

One interesting note, I believe aside from the GWI, just about every media organization (with the exception of a lone columnist), has come out in favor of this deal. Most of the sports wrap up shows last night ended with an editorial to the GWI to back off and consider the financial hardship they are creating by their position. They may be late to the party, but the public is starting to recognize the effect of the GWI's position, and in a state where the GWI is cultivated, even traditional GWI backers are starting to bash them. I would not be surprised to see John McCain come out publically in favor of this deal. It has been suggested he has had private conversations with the GWI to express his concern.

I would argue that the city has create their own financial hardships.

Goyotes... the only part of your post that really matters for the Coyotes prospects for staying in Glendale is bolded above; the availability of investors to buy the bonds. You might well be right that they can sell these bonds in the current circumstances, but if you were a potential buyer and the COG was about to file suit, wouldn't you wait until the legal matters are settled? Isn't an actual lawsuit with an uncertain outcome even more of a risk for investors than a potential suit? In that case, if investors are already worried about the possibility of the GWI prevailing in a lawsuit, how silly is it for the COG to threaten to force this into the courts? Why not go ahead and sell the bonds and then sue, if you think you have a case?

I think a more plausible explanation is that the COG is trying to scare off the GWI with this threat of legal action. They might sue later if the deal collapses, but taking this to court is hardly the way to get investors to open their wallets in short order.

It's possible that the lack of interest on the part of investors is that they feel the bonds could lose their tax exemption since they benefit a private party. If so, it has nothing to do with GWI and there's probably no rate that would be sufficient for that risk... the bond holder could lose 20% or more if that happens.

 

[Evil Doctor]

Thread suggestion: "March Madness"

And yes I stole this from college basketball, please don't sue me COG or GWI.

I like this one, but how about instead of the usual attempts at creativity, how about a nice simple: Phoenix XXV: The Beginning of The End?