Phoenix XXIV: How many twists does the scriptwriter have left?

[Roughneck]

That seems to be....well......anyone here gotten a NHL playoff ticket for 16 dollars before?

That just seems wrong....

I'm not even sure if that will get you a parking spot near some arenas for a playoff game.

 

[Confucius]

I'm not even sure if that will get you a parking spot near some arenas for a playoff game.

Certainly not at the Job., next year,

 

[LeftCoast]

Just a quick question for those in the know, can anyone sue the COG over this lease with Hulsizer? GWI seems to be the watchdog but can any ordinary citizen sue the city over the deal?

I think any Glendale taxpayer could sue. I assume the most likely avenue for the Goldwater Institute to bring an action would be to round up a number of sympathetic Glendale residents and sue on their behalf.

But GWI doesn't have to sue, and in fact they haven't said that they will sue. GWI has only stated that they have "grave reservations" that the city is taking illegal risks with taxpayers money and has urged the city to reconsider the bond issue. The fact that the institute has a reputation for litigating these types of issues may be all they need to kill the deal.

Glendale could have a vote to see how many residents want to support the team through an additional tax or whatever. If 60% or more residents want to fund the team then it could be possible for the Coyotes to stay and it would be a better situation for the team and the NHL.

If GWI is correct and the CoG is violating the Az state Constitution, I don't think a referendum would make it okay. Constitutions protect all citizens, not just the majority.

 

[Skarjak]

That's different though because it wouldn't be a gift, the city would be actually buying the team.

 

[htpwn]

That's different though because it wouldn't be a gift, the city would be actually buying the team.

But then, wouldn't the city have to prove that they got fair value for their money? Because you would be hard pressed to prove that the Coyotes are actually worth the $170 million the NHL is asking for...

 

[Skarjak]

If that was a thing you had to prove, I don't think cities would be allowed to do anything without the threat of a lawsuit. I don't think there's laws against stupid business decisions. Cities waste money all the time, it's the "gift" issue that's causing trouble.

 

[Brodie]

I don't think any other state has a gift clause in their constitution, so it's a moot point

 

[OthmarAmmann]

Wow. Our JrA team (not CHL, but regular JrA) sells playoff tickets for about $10 each.

Are they 10 stories up behind the goal?

Here is the video from the Scruggs press conference:

http://glendale-az.granicus.com/ASX.php?publish_id=252&sn=glendale-az.granicus.com

As you can see, there wasn't many people in attendance. Was that done on purpose?

Something tells me, that Mark Rolandson (Just Sports) didn't write his own speach.

I watched snippets. Was there a guy talking about the effect of the Browns move on Cleveland? Not so disastrous.

 

[TheLegend]

Glendale casino dispute: Judge favors tribe in ruling

A U.S. District Court judge Thursday upheld a federal decision to designate land in the West Valley as a reservation, opening the door to a tribal casino near Glendale's sports and entertainment district.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/...a-tribe-glendale-casino-dispute-decision.html


Bad legal advice for Glendale to pursue this ? Or a bad judgement ?

Glendale's not the only one fighting the casino. Most of the other Arizona tribes are lined up against it because it threatens to destroy the gaming pact in place with the state. Some of them are considering actions of their own independant of what Glendale does.

 

[Whileee]

Or sue GWI first.

Sure, go ahead and sue the GWI. That'll get them lining up down the street to buy the bonds.

 

[Whileee]

How long until Glendale decides to purchase the bonds out of its strategic reserve money?

Sadly, this is only partially tongue-in-cheek.

Why would it buy its own bonds? If they have $100 million in a "strategic reserve", why not give it straight to Hulsizer?

 

[Whileee]

Why they havent (COG) gone to court already, like a few weeks ago to seek a ruling, taken the fight to the GWI instead of messing around when the positions on both sides are so entrenched?, "I have no earthly idea".

But wouldn't taking this whole deal into a courtroom put it on ice indefinitely? If bond purchasers are spooked by the threat of legal action, wouldn't they be even more concerned about an active court case with an uncertain timeframe and conclusion? Could the NHL put up with that? If the COG did bring action, I am quite sure that the GWI would start by saying that they require a host of documents and internal communications not yet furnished by the COG, and then weeks to review them, etc. Along with the need to schedule court dates, etc. I think that if the COG had taken this action it would have been "game over" by now.

 

[Whileee]

Given the following:

The CoG owns the Arena
The NHL owns the Team

GWI in a letter to the CoG says:

As you know, the Gift Clause requires a tangible quid pro quo for payments made to a private company or individual. The crux of the deal is the City obtaining parking rights in exchange for giving a payment of $100 million to the purchaser. . The purchaser in this case being Matthew Hulsizer.

But, concidering IMO that at this point in time Matthew Hulsizer owns nothing ( he has not yet purchased the team, nor the parking) , how can the CoG give MH $100M for the rights to parking when he does not yet own those rights? I could see the CoG trying to pay the NHL for those rights, if in fact the rights to parking are owned by the same entitiy that owns the team.

So either the NHL owns the parking or the CoG owns the parking, in either case the CoG can't give MH $100M for parking rights.

Or this has been going on too long and I forget when Hulsizer got the rights to parking, in which case all the above can be ignored.

Ok. If I look at say leasing a car, the person doing the leasing never actually owns the car. You either have to return the car at the end of the lease or you can buy it out. And if I equate that to Hulsizer leasing the arena which entitles him to the parking rights while under lease, he can sell the parking and make money off of the parking, but the CoG still owns the parking. At the time the lease ends, the parking would revert back to the CoG. Or MH could buy the rights to parking from the CoG, but not the CoG buying the parking from MH.

I don't mean to confuse things, but that's how I see a lease working. I need one of the lawyers on here to comment.

cbc... I am not a lawyer, but this is how I understand the contention of the COG and the NHL and Hulsizer. The NHL currently owns the rights, and will do so as long as they own the team and they sell those rights, which logically would be when they are no longer the arena manager or tenant. They would sell the Coyotes franchise and the parking rights to Hulsizer for $170 million. He would then sign a lease and related agreements with the COG for 30 years, thereby confirming his rights to the parking. He would then sell the parking rights to the COG for $100 million.

I am sure that if I am wrong about this, I will be duly corrected.

 

[Killion]

Could the NHL put up with that?

You are quite right Whileee. I wrote that post when I was young & foolish, at 2'ish this afternoon. Now that Im' older & wiser, I do see the folly in such a suggestion, indeed, it was pointed out to me in a PM by a more astute observer than I. My suggestion, the thought & idea was wrong. The NHL likely wouldnt stand for the COG pushing GW into court for a myriad of very, very good reasons.... There. Ya happy now?... .

 

[Whileee]

Not sure who to believe about this "documents" controversy. I've been in them myself. The other side of the coin is Clint Bolick supposedly told the CoG two months ago that he didn't need anything further from the City to understand and analyze this transaction. The GWI didn't respond to that allegation which makes me think perhaps it might be true. Now, put aside your position on relocation for a moment. Let's get to the meat of the matter. Do you believe that the GWI has lacked the necessary documents to figure out if the CoG owns the right to charge for parking. Seriously? The documents have been available since the Coyote's bankruptcy.

In every piece of litigation, you always want the otherside's documentation, and especially after you indicate the threat of litigation. I don't blame the GWI for making a continuing request for documents. But I think the issue will be, can the GWI explain the delay in it reaching an opinion on the legality of the transaction, even to this very day. Given the mountains of information publically available for weeks, I find it difficult to understand how anyone can truly believe this is a matter of the GWI operating with the good faith need for more information.

I hear people respond to my tortious interference argument by claiming that the GWI never said the deal was illegal or unconstitutional. Then I hear people argue that the GWI has decided that the deal is unconstitutional. I can only tell you that from what I observe here in Phoenix, IMO the public is beginning to scratch their heads at what the GWI is doing, and most people are questioning why the GWI is not taking any action. Frankly, public interest groups are held to a higher standard than what may be the very kind of gamesmenship that the GWI is supposed to stand against.

I don't know whether the CoG has concerns about the deal seeing the light of day through litigation. Maybe they have serious concerns. Perhaps the GWI has serious concerns that the public will see their tactic as a four corner drill. Since neither of us know the answer, nor do either of us know whether the CoG has recently (I mean the last several weeks) worked in good faith to provide the GWI will all the information they requested, we can speculate how we wish.

I wouldn't be naive enough to suggest that the GWI isn't using delaying tactics. They have been at it for a few weeks, whereas the COG has been at it for a couple of years, so I guess they don't feel that they should be in that much of a hurry just because the COG and Hulsizer took so long to hammer out their agreement.

I think you might want to consider that they are now asking for documents that not only relate to the financial analyses, but also to the other evidence surrounding the particulars of the deal. I think that there is strong circumstantial and indirect evidence suggesting that the COG would have been trying to negotiate down from $100 million on the parking, and that Hulsizer never budged. Two city councilors have been quoted publicly that $100 million was the required "transaction cost". Note, they did not say that this was the value of the parking. Now, the GWI were able to lay their hands on any documents relating to the back and forth negotiations with Hulsizer on the $100 million (and the $97 million arena management fee), they might very well end up with some devastating evidence that the COG was meeting the demands of the businessman, not assessing the value to tax payers. Consider the exchange...

Hulsizer: "I need $100 million up front for the parking."
COG: "That seems way too high; we'll get back to you on that." (commission Walker's study)
COG: "Our study indicates that the parking is worth $60-70 million (NPV). We'd be prepared to go that high."
Hulsizer: "Sorry, but the price is $100 million, take it or leave it. Hey, did you guys see how well the Stars and Blues have been doing?"

I think it is important to note that the GWI has been after documents related to the ongoing negotiations between the COG and various potential owners for almost two years. Since there was nothing concrete to analyze then, I think it is reasonable to conclude that they were interested in getting documentation of how the COG was negotiating, and what considerations were being discussed.

I have a hunch that the COG would not want this in a courtroom at all. I think that the discovery process to uncover all of the written and electronic communications about how this deal was negotiated and constructed, unless it was all done by telephone and face-to-face, would not flatter Hulsizer or the COG.

 

[PitbulI]

What's this stuff about stategic reserve? Did the COG say they have something like this and if push comes to shove, will use this to pay Hulsizer?

 

[Whileee]

Here is the video from the Scruggs press conference:

http://glendale-az.granicus.com/ASX.php?publish_id=252&sn=glendale-az.granicus.com

As you can see, there wasn't many people in attendance. Was that done on purpose?

Something tells me, that Mark Rolandson (Just Sports) didn't write his own speach.

I just saw this video of Scruggs' speech for the first time. My impression is that:

1) They believe that they will only be able to sell the bonds if the GWI publicly backs off. I didn't get the impression that they are willing or able to increase the interest on the bonds enough to sell the bonds. So, if nothing changes in the GWI's position, I think things are quite bleak.

2) It is very clear that the COG and the GWI have reached an impasse, and it's difficult to see how this can be resolved amicably. There was a sense of finality in that, rather than an impression that they were still reaching out to the GWI, or vice versa.

3) I find it interesting that Scruggs noted how assiduously she has pursued the GWI to get them to change their position. Perhaps she should also try to get a last-ditch meeting with Gary Bettman and Hulsizer to see if they will change their negotiating positions. Frankly, I think that is the most hopeful route for them to go.

4) It is quite clear that the COG never contemplated having to sign an agreement that was this one-sided, and therefore they haven't given the GWI the time of day until recently. They were nothing short of disdainful, right up until they had to conclude negotiations with Hulsizer. At that point, I noticed that they expressed a willingness to meet with the GWI to "explain" the deal and "address their concerns". They clearly had come a long way from the halcyon days of the CFD.

 

[Whileee]

What's this stuff about stategic reserve? Did the COG say they have something like this and if push comes to shove, will use this to pay Hulsizer?

I've never heard of this "strategic reserve", or any suggestion that it could or would be used instead of selling bonds to raise the money for Hulsizer.

 

[TheLegend]

Its not just any 3 tickets, it includes a playoff ticket as well. A playoff ticket for $16. Are there some worries that Jobing will be empty during the playoffs?

For the sake of clarity...

It's 2 regular season tickets (any remaining home game except Detroit) plus 1 playoff ticket (first game only) STARTING at $49.

As OA previously noted... that price point would be limited to the top rows at one end of the arena (it's been 4 rows). If someone wants to go onto TicketMaster and find it otherwise please let us know. Because the fine print also states there's only a limited number of these package available.

Lower bowl package is available STARTING at $149.

FWIW.... the STH price per ticket for those last 4 rows this year is $10. So if you apply the STH pricing to this package your playoff ticket becomes $29.

Cheap?? No denying it is compared to most other teams...... but it's also annoying when people toss out numbers without any thought.

 

[leoleo3535]

For the sake of clarity...

It's 2 regular season tickets (any remaining home game except Detroit) plus 1 playoff ticket (first game only) STARTING at $49.

As OA previously noted... that price point would be limited to the top rows at one end of the arena (it's been 4 rows). If someone wants to go onto TicketMaster and find it otherwise please let us know. Because the fine print also states there's only a limited number of these package available.

Lower bowl package is available STARTING at $149.

FWIW.... the STH price per ticket for those last 4 rows this year is $10. So if you apply the STH pricing to this package your playoff ticket becomes $29.

Cheap?? No denying it is compared to most other teams...... but it's also annoying when people toss out numbers without any thought.

PHX are obviously in a different world vs many other clubs.
It is a great opportunity however for fans in other markets to take in hockey.

IE in many markets you cannot get a ticket....particularily in the playoffs.
Prices are high and or tickets are not available.
As stupid as this sounds you could fly from many markets to PHX, attend the game, grab a hotel and fly home cheaper than you could attend a game in your own backyard.
Glendale should promote this.
What a great hockey market PHX is!

 

[dobiezeke*]

PHX are obviously in a different world vs many other clubs.
It is a great opportunity however for fans in other markets to take in hockey.

IE in many markets you cannot get a ticket....particularily in the playoffs.
Prices are high and or tickets are not available.
As stupid as this sounds you could fly from many markets to PHX, attend the game, grab a hotel and fly home cheaper than you could attend a game in your own backyard.
Glendale should promote this.
What a great hockey market PHX is!

And since the lower bowl appears to have several seats available every night, you can get a great seat for peanuts! I realize that the deal is only for selected seats, but tell me how many people are buying the higher priced tickets? Based on attendance, I would say very few.

 

[william_adams]

Why would it buy its own bonds? If they have $100 million in a "strategic reserve", why not give it straight to Hulsizer?

ha. kind of defeats the purpose of issuing bonds now doesn't it (unless that strategic fund is getting north of the 8~9% that they are rumoured to have to pay!)

i do wonder about buyers for these bonds. between matthew hulsizer and the ice edge guys, there should be some pretty massive assets under management. if THEY (mh and ie and their clients) don't want to buy the bonds, then who would want to buy the bonds??

 

[Ernie]

So $10 gets you into the arena, then you can move down to one of the many gaps in the lower bowl after the first period. sounds like a good deal to me.

 

[dobiezeke*]

So $10 gets you into the arena, then you can move down to one of the many gaps in the lower bowl after the first period. sounds like a good deal to me.

We did that last week. Thank you Glendale/Phoenix/Mesa for your support of the Coyotes..you allowed me to watch an NHL game for the price of a beer at any other arena.

 

[leoleo3535]

We did that last week. Thank you Glendale/Phoenix/Mesa for your support of the Coyotes..you allowed me to watch an NHL game for the price of a beer at any other arena.

don't forget to thank the fans and 29 other clubs who have financed the Coyotes.