Phoenix LXXI: Daydream Belever

[Llama19]

Posted at 4:09 p.m., Phoenix Business Journal: Phoenix Coyotes sale: What went wrong and what is next?

"Jamison had the blessing of the NHL and $308 million from Glendale in his favor. Coyotes' captain Shane Doan re-signed in September after assurances were made to him the team would be sold to the Jamison group. Coyotes players, staff and executives are privately upset the latest effort faltered after three years of assurances of the team's sale and future in Glendale."

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/blog/business/2013/02/phoenix-coyotes-sale-what-went-wrong.html?page=all

 

[Cryogenic Man]

Posted at 4:09 p.m., Phoenix Business Journal: Phoenix Coyotes sale: What went wrong and what is next?

"Jamison had the blessing of the NHL and $308 million from Glendale in his favor. Coyotes' captain Shane Doan re-signed in September after assurances were made to him the team would be sold to the Jamison group. Coyotes players, staff and executives are privately upset the latest effort faltered after three years of assurances of the team's sale and future in Glendale."

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/blog/business/2013/02/phoenix-coyotes-sale-what-went-wrong.html?page=all

Read the article and it looks more like a good ass-covering job by Mike Sunnucks. He

goes on to explain why he reported such and such and if you read between the lines

and from whom he got his info.

As for Mr.Oil from Calgary buying a team?

3 words. St-Louis Blues.

Where was he when the team was being sold at the basement bargain price of $130 Million last year?

Could of had a team for less and with the remote possibility of making a small profit.

No, instead wants the Phoenix Coyotes.

Makes sense to me.

 

[cbcwpg]

Posted at 4:09 p.m., Phoenix Business Journal: Phoenix Coyotes sale: What went wrong and what is next?

"Jamison had the blessing of the NHL and $308 million from Glendale in his favor. Coyotes' captain Shane Doan re-signed in September after assurances were made to him the team would be sold to the Jamison group. Coyotes players, staff and executives are privately upset the latest effort faltered after three years of assurances of the team's sale and future in Glendale."

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/blog/business/2013/02/phoenix-coyotes-sale-what-went-wrong.html?page=all

You do have to feel for the office staff and the players as it sounds like they were repeatedly told all was well and all was on schedule. I mean as recent as Monday Jamison was all.. " yeah, we got this , no worries " then all of the sudden it's like he had no chance of closing this deal. So either the deal really fell apart at the last second or Jamison was using the Gary Bettman lie without really lying play book.

 

[Mandala]

So all this becomes a relocation choice between Quebec City and Seattle.

The choice will depend on how quickly the NHL wants to make money:

Quebec City:

- profits from day 1
- TV deal in place
- guaranteed brand new arena in a few years
- guaranteed fan base
- temporary arena already available, NHL ready
- Phoenix gone, one less market to receive massive revenue sharing

Seattle

- small hockey market
- potential owners interested in NBA first
- hockey will be a second thought
- temporary arena not NHL ready
- because of temporary arena, most likely another revenue sharing market
- probably be ready in 2-3 years when modern arena available
- does not increase TV revenue since market covered by NBC deal

So, it seems that if the NHL wants to make money for the next 2-3 years until the next expansion, Quebec City is the only choice. With a new arena, Seattle would be ready for an expansion.

 

[OthmarAmmann]

DRAFT SCOPE OF WORK FOR FORENSIC AUDIT

That is all for now

Dammit! I'll never be able to leave this saga alone.

Doesn't sound very good for Beazer.

 

[Dado]

You do have to feel for the office staff and the players as it sounds like they were repeatedly told all was well and all was on schedule.

Two years ago, yes.

Three years in...fool me twice, shame on me....

 

[Dado]

- because of temporary arena, most likely another revenue sharing market

I believe the number of revenue sharing markets is going to remain constant in either case - either by replacing an old with a new one, or bumping a non one down a slot.

?

 

[Confucius]

Dammit! I'll never be able to leave this saga alone.

Doesn't sound very good for Beazer.

Sounds like it could be months until the city starts drawing up a new lease proposal. Then again they'd have to have a potential buyer to draw up the lease for. I guess the league has to find one first. Then do their due diligence (That should take day).
How long again does it take to sell a team from when a buyer first expresses interest?

 

[matCH penalty]

Seattle

- hockey will be a second thought

- does not increase TV revenue since market covered by NBC deal

I think your overall point is reasonable but I would argue on these two details.

The NHL won't be a second thought in Seattle, it'll be (generously) a seventh thought: behind the NFL, NBA, MLB, NCAA Basketball, and NCAA Football. Maybe even the MLS, too. Seattle is, of course, a large and major world-class city in a very affluent metro. Whether or not the population size and average income of Seattle is large enough to support healthy NHL ticket prices and attendance is the $64M question. It's not impossible that it could, but there is an undeniable chance of it turning into yet another NHL market that draws in the 70s/80s with mid to low-range ticket prices. That's not great. If that happens, we'll be right back here in five to ten years discussing the disarray Seattle's in. In that instance, I reserve the right for massive I told you so.

As well, while the regional media value of the NHL team in Seattle is unquestionably lower than in Québec, the American national TV value is not. Seattle wins that handily. If I may bring a bit of the main board into BoH without getting strung up, AINEC . Everyone knows Seattle. Advertising value would go up. The NHL would gain money out of it. More or less than if the team stayed in Phoenix? Who knows.

 

[GF]

Found out who is mysterious buyer #9, he's a millionaire actually willing to lose millions with the Coyotes. He doesn't need Glendale's help either. He insisted that he wants no help at all...

He's Monty Brewster!

 

[Undertakerqc]

So all this becomes a relocation choice between Quebec City and Seattle.

The choice will depend on how quickly the NHL wants to make money:

Quebec City:

- profits from day 1
- TV deal in place
- guaranteed brand new arena in a few years
- guaranteed fan base
- temporary arena already available, NHL ready
- Phoenix gone, one less market to receive massive revenue sharing

Seattle

- small hockey market
- potential owners interested in NBA first
- hockey will be a second thought
- temporary arena not NHL ready
- because of temporary arena, most likely another revenue sharing market
- probably be ready in 2-3 years when modern arena available
- does not increase TV revenue since market covered by NBC deal

So, it seems that if the NHL wants to make money for the next 2-3 years until the next expansion, Quebec City is the only choice. With a new arena, Seattle would be ready for an expansion.

Good description of the situation. Obvious choice has to be made by the NHL.

 

[superdeluxe]

So all this becomes a relocation choice between Quebec City and Seattle.

The choice will depend on how quickly the NHL wants to make money:

Quebec City:

- profits from day 1
- TV deal in place
- guaranteed brand new arena in a few years
- guaranteed fan base
- temporary arena already available, NHL ready
- Phoenix gone, one less market to receive massive revenue sharing

Seattle

- small hockey market
- potential owners interested in NBA first
- hockey will be a second thought
- temporary arena not NHL ready
- because of temporary arena, most likely another revenue sharing market
- probably be ready in 2-3 years when modern arena available
- does not increase TV revenue since market covered by NBC deal

So, it seems that if the NHL wants to make money for the next 2-3 years until the next expansion, Quebec City is the only choice. With a new arena, Seattle would be ready for an expansion.

A couple of things, when the PAC 12 was trying to expand to 16, there were clauses that would allow for renegotiation.

Are we certain there isn't a similar cause in place?

Two, if the thought that a Canadian city would support losing hockey than a American city, then you would want a. Good franchise to a American city

 

[superdeluxe]

I think your overall point is reasonable but I would argue on these two details.

The NHL won't be a second thought in Seattle, it'll be (generously) a seventh thought: behind the NFL, NBA, MLB, NCAA Basketball, and NCAA Football. Maybe even the MLS, too. Seattle is, of course, a large and major world-class city in a very affluent metro. Whether or not the population size and average income of Seattle is large enough to support healthy NHL ticket prices and attendance is the $64M question. It's not impossible that it could, but there is an undeniable chance of it turning into yet another NHL market that draws in the 70s/80s with mid to low-range ticket prices. That's not great. If that happens, we'll be right back here in five to ten years discussing the disarray Seattle's in. In that instance, I reserve the right for massive I told you so.

As well, while the regional media value of the NHL team in Seattle is unquestionably lower than in Québec, the American national TV value is not. Seattle wins that handily. If I may bring a bit of the main board into BoH without getting strung up, AINEC . Everyone knows Seattle. Advertising value would go up. The NHL would gain money out of it. More or less than if the team stayed in Phoenix? Who knows.

I think NHL would be above mls/NCAA basketball.

I think there is a different group of people that goes to college games, even more so with the MLS. You tend to have sports fans, and sounder fans. Just personal observation based on what I've seen and the folks that I talk to

 

[blues10]

Dammit! I'll never be able to leave this saga alone.

Doesn't sound very good for Beazer.

This sounds like a job for TL Hocking and Associates LLC.

Beasley should remain in the Cayman Islands. Art Lynch may also be implicated in this IF any illegal activity is found. Jim Colston may also have to come back and face the music if wrong doings are uncovered.

It should be fun!

 

[matCH penalty]

Two, if the thought that a Canadian city would support losing hockey than a American city, then you would want a. Good franchise to a American city

Is Seattle a good market for the NHL in your opinion? If it is, the state of a team that is relocated to it or expanded in it shouldn't matter, because the overwhelming pressure of the market to produce and support a winner will run its course naturally. The ownership will feel a need to attract and sign high-payed FAs to win and the building will be consistently full with people paying actual NHL ticket prices. If you think Seattle couldn't survive the 4-5 years (optimistically) needed to start moving an expansion team into the direction of a contender, you're implying that the market isn't going to be particularly strong for the NHL. Anaheim, San Jose, and MSP survived expansion and are doing fine. What makes Seattle different?

I think NHL would be above mls/NCAA basketball.

I think there is a different group of people that goes to college games, even more so with the MLS. You tend to have sports fans, and sounder fans. Just personal observation based on what I've seen and the folks that I talk to

Fair enough. I included the MLS mostly out of respect for the great thing the Sounders built up there. NCAA basketball might not compete for attendance time/dollars but it would impact the media strength of an NHL team, though.

 

[superdeluxe]

I think Seattle would be a good NHL market, but I definitely feel that the honey moon period would last longer in Markham/QC

 

[Confucius]

I think NHL would be above mls/NCAA basketball.

I think there is a different group of people that goes to college games, even more so with the MLS. You tend to have sports fans, and sounder fans. Just personal observation based on what I've seen and the folks that I talk to

MLS will be the next one. People are blind to this fact, no different than a team sticking with an aging veteran, not giving any respect to the new kid. Laugh now but in 20 years, cities will be wishing for an MLS franchise.

 

[matCH penalty]

I think Seattle would be a good NHL market, but I definitely feel that the honey moon period would last longer in Markham/QC

There is no honeymoon period for NHL franchises in Canada. They print money, and are as stable as it gets in an unstable league.

Why do you think Seattle is such a good NHL market?

 

[KingBogo]

I think Seattle would be a good NHL market, but I definitely feel that the honey moon period would last longer in Markham/QC

A honey moon period for hockey in southern Ontario or Quebec? Yeah it might only last a dozen generations or so? This like saying the honey moon period for football in Texas.

 

[superdeluxe]

MLS will be the next one. People are blind to this fact, no different than a team sticking with an aging veteran, not giving any respect to the new kid. Laugh now but in 20 years, cities will be wishing for an MLS franchise.

It very well could be, there just seems to a separation between soccer fans and 'typical' sports fans which is great because it allows cities to have more major sports (mls) in cities once thought tapped out of sports dollars

 

[superdeluxe]

There is no honeymoon period for NHL franchises in Canada. They print money, and are as stable as it gets in an unstable league.

Why do you think Seattle is such a good NHL market?

Well we won't know for sure but the reasons that NHL would work is:

1) strong youth/rec growth in the area

2) good support of minor league franchises

3) proximity to Canada (because of strength of Canadian dollar many from BC come to shop in Washington many come for nfl/MLB games). Also fans of other teams tickets would be easier to get in Seattle than in Vancouver. It is also feasible for fans in Portland to go to games, making a Seattle team a regional team.

4). This is a winning town/trend setting town. You win or provide a good experience (the M's were still getting 30-35k every game even though they had not won in several years, because safeco was a draw. My understanding is the new arena will also draw people in a similar fashion.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

It very well could be, there just seems to a separation between soccer fans and 'typical' sports fans which is great because it allows cities to have more major sports (mls) in cities once thought tapped out of sports dollars

don't forget, superdeluxe, you've got the NWSL in addition to the Sounders (Seattle Reign FC)

 

[Melrose Munch]

There is no honeymoon period for NHL franchises in Canada. They print money, and are as stable as it gets in an unstable league.

Why do you think Seattle is such a good NHL market?

Edmonton and Ottawa lose money.

 

[superdeluxe]

A honey moon period for hockey in southern Ontario or Quebec? Yeah it might only last a dozen generations or so? This like saying the honey moon period for football in Texas.

My point exactly

 

[MarkhamNHL]

Edmonton and Ottawa lose money.

you got proof of that ?

only numbers we ever see is Forbes estimates... and Ott made 14.5 million and EDM 16.2 million according to them