Phoenix LXXI: Daydream Belever

[Ugmo]

Did they tear down the building the Sonics played in??

They might as well, because it's completely unsuitable for hockey. They'd probably lose more money there than the Coyotes do.

 

[PhxCoyoteFan]

I wish to dispel certain bad logic.

Why should CoG have to pay for someone else to own a team?
This is a marriage. Both sides in this together. IMO CoG needs the Coyotes more than vice versa. If you were buying a house that needed work to make it liveable and in fact grand, then there is a reasonable expectation to share the burden to get it from A-Z
It would not be fiscally responsible for a new owner to come in and fix all the wrongs overnight. CoG will have to fund the annual management of the building they own. Since they are not in that business it would be smart they hire the incoming owner to handle all things hockey. Maybe they can do it for $10 million /yr vs. the $15 million/yr which was prior offered. I know it will cost $6.5 million a yr with no anchor tenant.

 

[superdeluxe]

They might as well, because it's completely unsuitable for hockey. They'd probably lose more money there than the Coyotes do.

If a owner is ok with losing money for 2 years to have a long term state of art entertainment arena as a venue, he might just take it

 

[Major4Boarding]

Agenda Time... although I cannot take credit for my usual digging it up as I was "helped" by the unusual suspect that it was up already

http://www.glendaleaz.com/clerk/agendasandminutes/Workshops/Agendas/020513.pdf

Guess what ain't topic of discussion during the workshop That topic moved to Executive Session as speculated by as certain desert resident. And another topic as well...

Guess what is topic of discussion?

COUNCIL MEETING ORDER OF BUSINESS

The purpose of this Council Report is to review and consider the current Council Meeting Rules and Procedures, and the Glendale City Code provision setting the date, time and location for regular meetings. Staff is seeking Council guidance on any requested modifications to the current meeting criteria.

And

DRAFT SCOPE OF WORK FOR FORENSIC AUDIT

That is all for now

 

[Major4Boarding]

I wish to dispel certain bad logic.

Why should CoG have to pay for someone else to own a team?
This is a marriage.

Yep and the JIG subsidy was either Child Support or Alimony, in my opinion... take your pick.

Next...

 

[displacedpensfan]

A Thought

At this point, if someone could be found that would buy the Coyotes with a 5-7 year lease deal at Jobing, that could buy enough time to either:

a) Make things work in Glendale. With the economic recovery starting to take hold, maybe robust growth returns in the West Valley and with stable ownership, puts things back on track.

b) In another 5-7 years, the Suns may be looking to move into a newer downtown Phoenix facility in conjunction with the Coyotes. Put them in the right arena downtown and suddenly things could actually work.

c) In a few years, things are clearly not working and the plug is pulled and they move to Seattle, Houston, Quebec, or Ontario.

 

[MarkhamNHL]

At this point, if someone could be found that would buy the Coyotes with a 5-7 year lease deal at Jobing, that could buy enough time to either:

a) Make things work in Glendale. With the economic recovery starting to take hold, maybe robust growth returns in the West Valley and with stable ownership, puts things back on track.

b) In another 5-7 years, the Suns may be looking to move into a newer downtown Phoenix facility in conjunction with the Coyotes. Put them in the right arena downtown and suddenly things could actually work.

c) In a few years, things are clearly not working and the plug is pulled and they move to Seattle, Houston, Quebec, or Ontario.

know anyone willing to lose 20-40 million for up to 7 years? may as well just flush a quarter of a billion down the toilet and save yourself the headaches.

why ties yourself to a lease that long when the temporary lease expires this year...

 

[Nordskull]

Gallacher = Portland ?

http://www.sportstalkflorida.com/po...ome&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

[Glacial]

http://arizonasports.com/43/1606845...-Im-confident-Coyotes-will-stay-in-the-Valley

The mayor has assured NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman that he wants the Coyotes to stay but not on the city's dime.

"Not on our taxpayers back and not at the risk of losing public safety," said Weiers. "When someone calls 911 they don't want a Zamboni to show up. They want a fire truck or a police car to show up."

That is an awesome quote! If it was more concise, we could have a future thread title.

 

[MarkhamNHL]

maybe use "Desert Dogs and Zamboni show" as the title

 

[GuelphStormer]

While I'm sure the NHL values its Canadian sponsorships and TV contracts they pale in comparison to money changing hands amongst their "peers". After all, would you rather have 80% of $100 or 25% of $1000?

thanks for your post hkymnky. i enjoyed reading it. im not sure i would agree with your basic premise here that seems to suggest the US tv deal dwarfs the Canadian tv deal. others are much better versed in the tv contracts than me, but i think the canadian contracts total about $140M a year (cbc and tsn primarily), while the new nbc us contract is around $200M a year. yes, the us side is bigger but not in a way suggested by your example. further, you seem to underestimate the revenues of the leafs and the canadiens relative to the rest of the entire league. again, others will correct me here but i think together they tally a lot more than the other 28 teams combined, including the rangers, chicago and detroit. you are correct in thinking that GB wants to widen the appeal across the US and bring in dollars elsewhere, but canada drives this league. period. seattle would always be a minor cog in the big engine, quebec has the potential of being much much bigger, especially when you factor in french advertising dollars and a certain quebecois tv network.

 

[CasualFan]

I wish to dispel certain bad logic.

Why should CoG have to pay for someone else to own a team?
This is a marriage. Both sides in this together. IMO CoG needs the Coyotes more than vice versa. If you were buying a house that needed work to make it liveable and in fact grand, then there is a reasonable expectation to share the burden to get it from A-Z
It would not be fiscally responsible for a new owner to come in and fix all the wrongs overnight. CoG will have to fund the annual management of the building they own. Since they are not in that business it would be smart they hire the incoming owner to handle all things hockey. Maybe they can do it for $10 million /yr vs. the $15 million/yr which was prior offered. I know it will cost $6.5 million a yr with no anchor tenant.

Are you familiar with the Dunning–Kruger Effect?

 

[Evil Doctor]

Gallacher = Portland ?

http://www.sportstalkflorida.com/po...ome&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

I think it would be hilarious that with all the debates about destination the Coyotes should go to, that they would end up at a destination nobody considered or advocated...

 

[XX]

Gallacher = Portland ?

http://www.sportstalkflorida.com/po...ome&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

The whole "He owns the Winterhawks, therefore Portland" thing is lazy journalism. He wanted in on the Devils and Stars, both of which weren't going to be moved. He has no attachment to Portland, as far as anyone can tell. He is just a hockey fan.

 

[PhxCoyoteFan]

At this point, if someone could be found that would buy the Coyotes with a 5-7 year lease deal at Jobing, that could buy enough time to either:

a) Make things work in Glendale. With the economic recovery starting to take hold, maybe robust growth returns in the West Valley and with stable ownership, puts things back on track.

b) In another 5-7 years, the Suns may be looking to move into a newer downtown Phoenix facility in conjunction with the Coyotes. Put them in the right arena downtown and suddenly things could actually work.

c) In a few years, things are clearly not working and the plug is pulled and they move to Seattle, Houston, Quebec, or Ontario.

Makes sense. Our fan group was saying "give us 5-10 yr deal."

We just dont want to lose our boys.

 

[danishh]

if gallagher was in on the stars and the devils, why did it take 3 years for him to show up on the coyotes? What has changed to make him interested NOW?

 

[Nordskull]

The whole "He owns the Winterhawks, therefore Portland" thing is lazy journalism. He wanted in on the Devils and Stars, both of which weren't going to be moved. He has no attachment to Portland, as far as anyone can tell. He is just a hockey fan.

Yeah, you're right.

 

[GuelphStormer]

Are you familiar with the Dunning–Kruger Effect?

ouch

 

[saskriders]

Makes sense. Our fan group was saying "give us 5-10 yr deal."

We just dont want to lose our boys.

Why another 10 years? You have had 17, and done nothing to prove the team has potential to make money

 

[cbcwpg]

Makes sense. Our fan group was saying "give us 5-10 yr deal."

We just dont want to lose our boys.

The previous council always said the lease had to be for the full term of 20 years and nothing less. It would be interesting to see if the new council would entertain this... I'm thinking no, because the one important thing to remember about the lease is the number of years for the lease co-insides with how long the CoG is paying down the arena. The goal of the CoG has always been to have a major tenant until the arena is paid off.

 

[aj8000]

Are you familiar with the Dunning–Kruger Effect?

That is funny

 

[Glacial]

if gallagher was in on the stars and the devils, why did it take 3 years for him to show up on the coyotes? What has changed to make him interested NOW?

The question is why would anyone want to run a franchise in a market which has not made money in over 16 years and for which the losses of the past couple of years have been staggering? And why would they jump in after the $300M subsidy falls off the table? That suggests tire kicker, sights set on relocation, or this is a trial run, hanging around the Coyotes in hopes of being remembered and picking up an expansion team down the road.

What's the arena situation in Portland? Can the Trail Blazers have their fire put on ice or does there need to be another temporary arena or a hiatus til an arena gets built? If the latter, is absorbing Phoenix losses really worth it? Unless he plans a Saskatoon detour or something?

 

[WildGopher]

At this point, if someone could be found that would buy the Coyotes with a 5-7 year lease deal at Jobing, that could buy enough time to either:

a) Make things work in Glendale. With the economic recovery starting to take hold, maybe robust growth returns in the West Valley and with stable ownership, puts things back on track.

b) In another 5-7 years, the Suns may be looking to move into a newer downtown Phoenix facility in conjunction with the Coyotes. Put them in the right arena downtown and suddenly things could actually work.

c) In a few years, things are clearly not working and the plug is pulled and they move to Seattle, Houston, Quebec, or Ontario.

I appreciate your idealism, but to me the 4 years this has already been tried, but failed financially, with the current league ownership was essentially the 5-7 year test you're calling for. It didn't work. And "economic recovery" doesn't describe what's happening in the U.S. now. The news announced this week was that the U.S. economy shrunk in the 4th quarter of 2012. Not economic growth shrunk, but the economy as a whole actually shrunk from its size the previous quarter. If it shrinks again in the current quarter, that will meet the economists' definition of a recession. Not the kind of news to instill confidence in investors that it's the time for speculation in a proven money-losing business.

 

[GuelphStormer]

Why another 10 years? You have had 17, and done nothing to prove the team has potential to make money

to be fair, hockey is a lot bigger in the valley now than it was back then. absolutely, this team is haemorrhaging money ... but hockey is now being played in high schools and there are house leagues with kids and adults. is it as pervasive as it is here in canada? of course not, it never will be and its crazy to think it ever could be. but having the coyotes in phoenix HAS increased the profile of the sport. just not enough.

 

[aqib]

The whole "He owns the Winterhawks, therefore Portland" thing is lazy journalism. He wanted in on the Devils and Stars, both of which weren't going to be moved. He has no attachment to Portland, as far as anyone can tell. He is just a hockey fan.

Lazy journalism has been a running theme throughout this situation. I think thats something all sides can agree on.