Phoenix LXII: Abandon Hope all Ye Who Enter Here

[Undertakerqc]

He has his investors lined up and is just finalizing a re-worked lease with the city. It'll likely close in a matter of weeks. Probably 2 weeks or so.

2 weeks!! Humm!!! Where have i heard that before??

 

[Warhead77]

Axually Im a Replicant. Like Rutger Hauer in Bladerunner. Only instead of having a limited lifespan they just throw me back in the freezer for awhile... when I get out of hand... which is frequently. Just ask the Admins round here bout dat..... For I have seen things you wouldnt believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-Beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate....

Elephants waterskiing at Cypress Gardens.

...all those moments will be lost......like......coyote howls........in the rain..............................time....to relocate.

 

[cbcwpg]

He has his investors lined up and is just finalizing a re-worked lease with the city. It'll likely close in a matter of weeks. Probably 2 weeks or so.

invest... to put (money) to use, by purchase or expenditure, in something offering potential profitable returns, as interest, income, or appreciation in value.

speculate... To engage in the buying or selling of a commodity with an element of risk on the chance of profit.

I no longer think these people should be called "investors". They should be called "speculators"... as in.... Jamison and his speculators.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

^ Some of your rebuttals are nothing short of laughable as to why a City couldn't temporarily house a team.

If any of us learned anything last year is just how quickly not one but TWO teams could move and setup basecamp. Winnipeg had the Manitoba Moose which merged / spliced with the Chicago Wolves (when TNSE bought the Thrashers), the farm team then moved to St. John's.

When the sale was made, logo, jersey's, hell even the arena weren't finalized yet ready for the upcoming season, TNSE did all this including selling out for 3-5 years in 4 months.

PKP has all the bones in place to make it happen, the jerseys and name would be easy, the marketting absolute no brainer, ticket sales no problem.

what, ajmdd12:

that is further from the truth.... TNSE still owns the Moose as the IceCaps, that has nothing to do w/ the Chicago Wolves, the question was would they still own them or be forced to sell them as a result of buying the Thrashers, which has been a requirement see Comcast spinning the Phantoms off their operation list even though the Flyers are still their affiliate whether or not their arena was being demolished as the Spectrum was, nobody saw the abrupt sale or spin-off to the Brooks Brothers, all that did essentially was swap the Moose/IceCaps and Wolves affiliations, since Chicago acquired Orlando's players and the Thrashers affiliation, as part of the merger in 2001, moving the Wolves into the AHL.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

The closest AHL teams would be those in Oklahoma, Texas and British Columbia. Quite a lot of either expensive or time consuming travel in other words. I'm pretty sure that Abbotsford, the team i BC, is paying extra to be located so far away from the rest of the league.

If however a few West Coast teams get together and all move their AHL teams out West in order to have a Pacific Division in the AHL then the AHL could work for Phoenix.

Otherwise there is the ECHL, a league that isn't too far behind the AHL in attendance and with several teams in the vicinity.

THE only issue is whom does Anaheim buy, when it has never operated in that form, PSGJ, San Jose, as well, does own Worcester, but LA is the only one who owns both its affiliates.... Abbotsford, as St. John's is has a subsidy that is league-paid, but Calgary and its operator, are half-interests in that franchise, going back as 1993, and Anaheim has already been told not to attempt TO ENGAGE Bakersfield in any PDC.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Yes, yes it does. Quite obviously that constitutes being anti-Latino. Why does she pull out the word "Latino" at all and imply all sorts of dubious things going on behind-the-scenes? This has nothing at all to do with the candidates themselves or their positions, ideas or opinions, it's a conspiracy theory spun entirely on the basis of someone's heritage. Latinos in power will ignore the population at large and only do what's best for other Latinos because they're Latino? Really? How else are we supposed to interpret her comments?

The fact that you seem to be completely dismissing this disgusting behaviour from a (seemingly) reputable elected government official is quite painful. Having someone like yourself trying to legitimize her racist theories here is a fantastic example of why BS like this works in politics. People can accept this as some kind of legitimate theory and reason alone to vote against the visible minority for some irrational fear, all the while trying to claim it has nothing to do with race.

Casual Fan has so thoroughly pointed this out in an earlier reply so I'll leave it at that.


Ho hum. It's a shame that no other city will take an NHL team due to the all-powerful lower level hockey leagues that will shut them out. Just like the Moose prevented Winnipeg from getting a team. Just like the Carolina Monarchs of IHL / AHL fame prevented Hartford from relocating to NC. Just like the Ottawa 67's prevented Ottawa from getting an NHL team back in '93.

It seems the only relocation possibilities now are completely obscure outposts like Albuquerque and Biloxi which don't already have some kind of low level minor league team installed and entrenched in the city.

YOU STILL Don't get it, do you CGG:

ALL Leagues have a gentlemen's agreement to not enter another league's territory unless there's no other option, you're incorrect, that the Moose prevented Winnipeg from returning, the issue then, as it was until the MTSC was built was the arena and availability of the franchise, just as the Moose went to Winnipeg when the Wild were announced..... Greensboro was a temporary stop for the Hurricanes, and in fact the Beast of New Haven as they became known collapsed due to the age of that arena, which is also gone, I don't consider the Senators to be from Ottawa, either, but Kanata, which is where their arena is..... Biloxi still has a franchise, it's called the Mississippi Surge (SPHL)

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

nope, you're the one who's factually dense, since you have zero clue, the Wolves were the Atlanta affiliate, but that contract expired at the end of 2010-11, aj, all the rosters changed since both Vancouver and Atlanta/Winnipeg, traded affiliations, so where do you come up w/ 2 teams relocating....

NHL:

Atlanta -> Winnipeg
Owners: TNSE

AHL:

Winnipeg -> St. John's
Owners:TNSE

TNSE relocated two teams, one in the AHL and one in the NHL.

the wolves really did not have anything to do with it, other then vancouver being forced to take them when winnipeg cut off their affiliation.

 

[madhi19]

so for those just joining us (or rejoining us), there is an election in 24 days. The following issues and seats are to be decided

1) the sales tax which is where the funding for the AMF is supposed to come from (along with the funding for other things) - if this gets repealed that could kill the deal

2) the mayors seat - the mayor voted against the last AMF and the 2 candidates are both against the deal

3) lieberman's seat - he was against the deal and both contenders replace him are against the deal.

4) trate's seat - Trate voted in favor of the deal. one contender (sherwood) is in favor one (douglas) is opposed

5) Joyce Clark - she is in favor of the deal her opponent is opposed.

so in order for the team to stay the following must happen

1) The sales tax to pass

2) clark and sherwood to win or the deal to close before 12/31

3) the consummated deal to withstand a Goldwater challenge.

This is all assuming Jameson's investors are real and are ok with the revised AMF.

Not to mention the NHL lockout must end quickly and in favour of the Coyotes and the rest of the bottom feeders. What happen if at some point the BoG and the PA just throw these teams under the bus to get a deal done? I can see them settling on a 50/50 split but going down incrementally and no significant increase in revenue sharing or major redefinition of HRR! I would not past it by the BoG to force a few relocation before selling an expansion to Markham for half a billion. Why give away a chunk of that pie to owners who will likely throw the keys on Garry desk sooner or later anyway?

 

[Major4Boarding]

Not to intentionally break up the current conversation but, the Agenda for next Tuesday's meeting is up.

And to no ones surprise, certainly not mine anyway, the following 2 items are listed on the Executive Session portion (and my apologies for the sloppy format, as for some mysterious reason content copying is not allowed unlike last few Agendas)

EXECUTIVE SESSION

1 LEGAL MATTERS

A. The City Council will meet with the City Attorney for legal advice, discussion and consultation regarding the city's position in pending or contemplated litigation, including settlement discussions conducted in order to avoid or resolve litigation. (A.R.S. ss38-431.03(A)(3)(4))

2 LEGAL MATTERS - PROPERTY & CONTRACTS

A. Discussion and consultation with the City Attorney and City Manager to receive an update, consider its position and provide instruction and direction to the City Attorney and City Manager regarding Glendale's position in connection with agreements associated with the Arena and the Hockey Team, which are the subject of negotiations. (A.R.S. ss38-431.03(A)(3)(4)(7))

http://www.glendaleaz.com/Clerk/agendasandminutes/Workshops/Agendas/101612.pdf

 

[GuelphStormer]

Not to mention the NHL lockout must end quickly and in favour of the Coyotes and the rest of the bottom feeders. What happen if at some point the BoG and the PA just throw these teams under the bus to get a deal done? I can see them settling on a 50/50 split but going down incrementally and no significant increase in revenue sharing or major redefinition of HRR! I would not past it by the BoG to force a few relocation before selling an expansion to Markham for half a billion. Why give away a chunk of that pie to owners who will likely throw the keys on Garry desk sooner or later anyway?

good post. i also think the BoG cannot be of one mind here. there are competing interests and the longer the lockout goes, the more they may begin chipping away at each other. the least successful teams may need to be sacrificed to better protect the whole and de facto, the powerful ones. the PA was very smart to plant this seed of owner disagreement / competition during this negotiation by putting revenue "sharing" on the table.

 

[AllByDesign]

ALL Leagues have a gentlemen's agreement to not enter another league's territory unless there's no other option...

I.... Uhhh.... Mhuuu??.... Ummm... Aahhhh?......your.... Uhhhmmmmm.....

Jesus....

 

[Killion]

...the PA was very smart to plant this seed of owner disagreement / competition during this negotiation by putting revenue "sharing" on the table.

... you actually think that the toothpick sliver of the piece of lumber, the Californian Redwood standing 600' tall actually required to gain leverage is gonna work? This gets settled like a case of bullying or a bar fight as in fast?

 

[Killion]

Jesus....

... doobie doobee doo...

The Summerwind
came blowin in
across the sea...

yepp. ya hearin me ABD?

all summer long
we strolled that golden sand
the world was new beneath blue umbrella skys

I lost you, I lost you
to the Summerwinds
Still those days go on & on

My fickle friend
The Summerwinds
Warm Summerwinds

 

[madhi19]

good post. i also think the BoG cannot be of one mind here. there are competing interests and the longer the lockout goes, the more they may begin chipping away at each other. the least successful teams may need to be sacrificed to better protect the whole and de facto, the powerful ones. the PA was very smart to plant this seed of owner disagreement / competition during this negotiation by putting revenue "sharing" on the table.

Yep at some point I can see the BoG giving up on HRR to get that 50/50 split. And the PA would likely agree to the 50/50 split if HRR remain the same and if it incremental and if the NHL does something to boost revenue by maybe reducing the number of team in bad market. Off course for all I know they might just throw the old system in the paper basket and agree on a stiff luxury tax instead of a cap with no floor. But I forgot it make too much sense!

 

[AllByDesign]

It's not often that Sinatra is inspired out of someone so instantly. Hey, K?

 

[Ice-Tray]

YOU STILL Don't get it, do you CGG:

ALL Leagues have a gentlemen's agreement to not enter another league's territory unless there's no other option, you're incorrect, that the Moose prevented Winnipeg from returning, the issue then, as it was until the MTSC was built was the arena and availability of the franchise, just as the Moose went to Winnipeg when the Wild were announced..... Greensboro was a temporary stop for the Hurricanes, and in fact the Beast of New Haven as they became known collapsed due to the age of that arena, which is also gone, I don't consider the Senators to be from Ottawa, either, but Kanata, which is where their arena is..... Biloxi still has a franchise, it's called the Mississippi Surge (SPHL)

Swing and a miss on that one man, sorry...

Are you just considering the Sens as not part of the city because it suits your argument? Because you are factually incorrect on every level.

The Senators are indeed from Ottawa, and play in Ottawa, as Kanata is a suburb of Ottawa and very much a part of the municipality of Ottawa. Would you claim that the 67's were not from Ottawa either Because they play in the Glebe?

Can't stay stuck in the past forever!

http://www.ottawaliving.ca/ottawa-neighbourhoods.php

As an addition, the 67's will be playing out of Scotiabank Place with the Sens until the new Landsdowne area is complete (at least the next two years).

 

[Killion]

It's not often that Sinatra is inspired out of someone so instantly. Hey, K?

Like a walking Jukebox Im afraid. Perfect soundtrack to whatevers opined. Strange kind of insanity I suppose.

Swing and a miss on that one man, sorry.

How do you know so much about Ottawa, one of my favourite places in Canada young fella?.

 

[metalfoot]

Er, Go Sens Go. If there were a season on. But that's another thread. Not surprising that the Executive Session has to deal with hawkey again. Maybe we'll have some hint of a conclusion to this ongoing saga within a fortnight of the resolution of the CBA negotiations.

 

[Killion]

Maybe we'll have some hint of a conclusion to this ongoing saga within a fortnight of the resolution of the CBA negotiations.

any idea how long a "fortnight" might be metalfoot? Ever ask a Limey? How much time you got?

 

[madhi19]

any idea how long a "fortnight" might be metalfoot? Ever ask a Limey? How much time you got?

Fourteen days. I admit that I did google it! lolll

 

[Killion]

Fourteen days. I admit that I did google it! lolll

... aye, thats what its supposed to be madhi.. Mind ye', if you've ever lived in Spain or perhaps watched the movie Sexy Beast starring Ray Winstone & Ian McShane with a brilliant portrayal of a "psych job" by Ben Kingsley, a "fortnight" could be 24-48hrs, depending on whether or not a boulder falls off a cliff and into yer swimming pool.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

That list seems to get longer every time you post it Kevy.

No it doesn't. I promise it was always 12.

 

[BigBadBread]

NHL:

Atlanta -> Winnipeg
Owners: TNSE

AHL:

Winnipeg -> St. John's
Owners:TNSE

TNSE relocated two teams, one in the AHL and one in the NHL.

the wolves really did not have anything to do with it, other then vancouver being forced to take them when winnipeg cut off their affiliation.

That is correct, however just to clarify. TNSE owns the IceCaps, but they are currently being leased (on a 3 year term if I recall correctly) by local businessman and former Premier Danny Williams.

The IceCaps have been a huge success so far with every home game sold out since they started and somewhere in the range of 6000 season ticket holders. Mile One Centre only has 6300 seats for hockey. I assume Danny Williams will try very hard to acquire full ownership after the current lease is up.

 

[aqib]

That is correct, however just to clarify. TNSE owns the IceCaps, but they are currently being leased (on a 3 year term if I recall correctly) by local businessman and former Premier Danny Williams.

The IceCaps have been a huge success so far with every home game sold out since they started and somewhere in the range of 6000 season ticket holders. Mile One Centre only has 6300 seats for hockey. I assume Danny Williams will try very hard to acquire full ownership after the current lease is up.

just curious did anyone from the Moose front office or coaching staff make the move to St Johns or did they start from scratch.

 

[Evil Doctor]

I.... Uhhh.... Mhuuu??.... Ummm... Aahhhh?......your.... Uhhhmmmmm.....

Jesus....

Or to sum up your lack of words...

I've given up tilting at that windmill a long time ago...