Phoenix LXII: Abandon Hope all Ye Who Enter Here

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Is he one of GJ's JIGs?

Carl, TO, the Arabs and Lakehead Yale sports Holdings formerly known as Ice Edge. Quite the group that GJ is assembling. Seems about time for GJ to add Cindy Hensley McCain to the the group.

Sorry I went OT. Watching him made me ill and I had to get it off my chest.

 

[blues10]

Sorry I went OT. Watching him made me ill and I had to get it off my chest.

I know.

I just want to read about Carl Lewis as one of GJ"s investors in the PBJ tomorrow.

He does have a net worth of $20 million - I can see the between periods event now. Ben and Carl racing around the ice at jobing.com during 1st intermission.

A real circus sideshow. USA vs. Canada - Joyce Clark the ringmaster cheering Carl on at every turn.

Alvarez vs.Clark in celebrity boxing between period 2.

Hey, whatever puts butts in the seats and gets people out to Westgate.

There is no real news. Sometimes you need to speculate a little bit.

 

[kdb209]

Houston-AHL and owned NHL Operator-(WILD);

And yet another chance to ask you to back up your oft-repeated claim ...

Why would the existence of the Aeros (a tenant in the Toyota center) be somehow an insurmountable obstacle to an NHL team moving/expanding to Houston - assuming a satisfactory ownership/lease agreement were struck with Les Alexander?

And yet another chance for you to not answer the question and change the subject.

edit: And similar arguments hold for Hamilton and Milwaukee - if an NHL owner chose to move or the League elected to expand to those cities (assuming lease and territorial issues were worked out), the existence of the AHL teams would be a non-issue.

 

[rj]

He was quite thorough in describing what a carpetbagger is.

Well he's wrong on what a carpetbagger is. A carpetbagger is a nimrod northerner that moves to the South, stays, thinks everything was better up north despite leaving there, and wants to change everything locally to how it was back up north. Like having a hockey team. They are the scum of the earth, their voting rights should be revoked and their taxes doubled.

 

[TheLegend]

Yes. In this case it certainly does. Clark's campaign materials weren't observational. She didn't innocently point out that Latinos are seeking positions in city government. She presented a clear accusation that all Latinos will favor the same platform and will always vote in unison to support Latino causes to the detriment of all other residents. It is a divisive and racist message. And it's totally inaccurate.

Worse, Clark questions if they are part of a "hidden agenda"; as if Latinos are gathering in secret to plan a coup whereby they assume a council majority to control and corrupt the city. It's a deplorable position. I knew Clark was dumb but I didn't expect this.

Also, who are these Latinos with "nefarious backgrounds" that you mention? And what specific activities are you are calling nefarious?

CF.... lets be clear that it's your opinion that Clark's material is "anti-Latino". Which is perfectly fine with me. Everyone is entitled to one. I just see it differently.

In fact, I just read over the brochure off her website and while I can agree it comes across as a bit suggestive, it's nothing close to what you're insinuating. But again.... that's my opinion.

My use of term "nefarious" was a bit strong as it refers to something sinister. "Questionable" might be a better term to use. There are connections between Phoenix Monarch Group (PMG), Sam Chivara who's running to replace Joyce Clark, and CM Norma Alvarez (who by chance is chairing Chivara's campaign.) I'm not going to bring up the source where that comes from since you already have exhibited a closed mind to anything from that site.

The fact still remains that PMG was, and still is unqualified to properly manage an arena like jobing.com.

 

[TheLegend]

What's your point? If Mr. Frate can't handle the heat, get out of the fire. The simple way out? Admit they were wrong.

Without Phoenix and Mesa area Glendale would be a ghost town. Majority of the Coyotes fans live OUTSIDE Glendale. Go figure.

220,000 people isn't a big enough City to own a major sports team.

First.... Glendale doesn't own a major sports team. Nor are they trying to buy one. They own an arena that can field one and would like to keep the current tenant in it.

Second... Frate was correct with the concept of carpetbagging. Glendale is trying to work its way out of a financial gaffe (that they have admitted to) and you have entities from outside the city trying push their influence into it.

That's the point....

 

[CasualFan]

CF.... lets be clear that it's your opinion that Clark's material is "anti-Latino".

Yes, let's be perfectly clear. Let's be so clear that we use the actual language from Clark's literature - but rotate the racial slur:

Councilwoman Norma Alvarez has endorsed and is solely supporting Jew candidates for mayor and council.
Is there a hidden agenda to get a Jew majority on Glendale City Council?​

I changed one word. Let's change it again to be even more clear:

Councilwoman Norma Alvarez has endorsed and is solely supporting Negro candidates for mayor and council.
Is there a hidden agenda to get a Negro majority on Glendale City Council?​

Do you see what you're attempting to defend yet?

In fact, I just read over the brochure off her website and while I can agree it comes across as a bit suggestive, it's nothing close to what you're insinuating. But again.... that's my opinion.

A bit suggestive?

​

Could it be that instead of adopting goals that are good for all of Glendale residents, Jews benefit just one group within Glendale?

It's nothing close, huh?

I just see it differently.

You certainly do.

My use of term "nefarious" was a bit strong as it refers to something sinister. "Questionable" might be a better term to use.

So, you over embellished the nefariousness of these minorities, eh? You've downgraded them from nefarious to questionable as if they are entries on an NFL injury report. That's comforting.

There are connections between Phoenix Monarch Group (PMG), Sam Chivara who's running to replace Joyce Clark, and CM Norma Alvarez (who by chance is chairing Chivara's campaign.) I'm not going to bring up the source where that comes from since you already have exhibited a closed mind to anything from that site.

You're not going to bring up the source for this accusation because I exhibited a closed mind to the site? You lost me there. I have no idea what site you're referring to. I don't recall Phoenix Monarch Group or their site; but I do endeavor to be open minded and objective on all matters.

 

[htpwn]

https://twitter.com/JKTHN/statuses/256376786852667392

Where did I hear this before??? Oh yes, "The List"...

**

1) The NHL will sell GJ the Coyotes for ~$75M to $100M.

2) The NHL will announce a sale price of $175M.

3) The GWI will huff and puff but do nothing.

4) The NHL will continue to say that they have NO plans for expansion.

5) The NHL will enter a negotiation with the NHLPA and insist on a 50-50 revenue sharing.

6) The NHLPA will say “HELL NO!!!!!â€.

7) The NHL will then say “I’ll tell you what. You give us 50% (a reduction of 7%) and we will expand by 2 teams (a jobs increase of 7%)â€.

8) The NHLPA will agree.

9) There will be a higher ceiling and lower floor – making the Coyote more inexpensive to run. The players will also get to play in Sochi in 2014.

10) The NHL will expand to QC in around 2014. The BoG will put a cool $200M in their pocket that they don’t have to share with the players.

11) The NHL will also expand to either Seattle (for $150 - $200M) or Toronto(2 for $300M). Again, the players will see none of it.

12) Gary Bettman will look like a hero which will makes us all feel a little sicker at night.

That list seems to get longer every time you post it Kevy.

 

[aqib]

My use of term "nefarious" was a bit strong as it refers to something sinister. "Questionable" might be a better term to use. There are connections between Phoenix Monarch Group (PMG), Sam Chivara who's running to replace Joyce Clark, and CM Norma Alvarez (who by chance is chairing Chivara's campaign.) I'm not going to bring up the source where that comes from since you already have exhibited a closed mind to anything from that site.

The fact still remains that PMG was, and still is unqualified to properly manage an arena like jobing.com.

Even if PMG is unqualified and Alvarez is trying to steer the business over to them you can make that point without having to play the race card.

 

[Gump Hasek]

You're not going to bring up the source for this accusation because I exhibited a closed mind to the site? You lost me there. I have no idea what site you're referring to. I don't recall Phoenix Monarch Group or their site; but I do endeavor to be open minded and objective on all matters.

Beavis Pack as source...

Is it just a coincidence that nearly everybody involved in this fiasco is Hispanic or at least has a Hispanic name? I doubt it, but the important thing to remember is that I am not the person who introduced these people to each other. Completely independent of my philosophy, even if I were racist, the people in this story decided to work together and make deals together and owe each other favors with no input from me. Is it racist that the common thread among many of these people is their relationship with firefighting or actually being employed as a firefighter? Does that mean I have a bias against firefighters? Neither, actually, yet I completely expect those commenters to remain unconvinced (assuming they genuinely believe what they say in their comments and aren’t just blowing smoke at an easy target) regardless of my statements, so consider this the last time the topic will be addressed. Then the next question would be whether I was looking for a story that would make Hispanic people look bad. It’s impossible to disprove a negative, all I can say is that is not the case.

http://nebulousverbosity.com/?p=1663

Norma’s motive is probably three-fold. Norma, perhaps admirably, hopes to gain an Hispanic majority on the Glendale City Council and become a force to be reckoned with. She also must hope to potentially siphon money earmarked to service the Glendale owned Jobing.com arena to her own municipal uses by either gaining her majority or simply joining forces with other people like Goldwater who will delay the execution of all the deal required to keep the Coyotes in Glendale. And, of course, she would love to do a favor for a couple of her friends.

http://nebulousverbosity.com/?p=1639

Yikes.

 

[Slashers98]

Beavis Pack as source...

http://nebulousverbosity.com/?p=1663


http://nebulousverbosity.com/?p=1639

Yikes.

George Fallar from Cave Creek is in bed with Joyce Clark... and he doesn't even live in Glendale. His opinion is moot on the matter.

 

[aqib]

I know Arizona State is like 40 minutes away but can't they play some weekend games at Jobing?

 

[GuelphStormer]

Yes, let's be perfectly clear. Let's be so clear that we use the actual language from Clark's literature - but rotate the racial slur:

Councilwoman Norma Alvarez has endorsed and is solely supporting Jew candidates for mayor and council.
Is there a hidden agenda to get a Jew majority on Glendale City Council?​

I changed one word. Let's change it again to be even more clear:

Councilwoman Norma Alvarez has endorsed and is solely supporting Negro candidates for mayor and council.
Is there a hidden agenda to get a Negro majority on Glendale City Council?​

Do you see what you're attempting to defend yet?

"but but but, it's different ..."

fwiw, I agree completely with your view on this. there really is no reasonable way to interpret her comments other than them being not-so-subtly racist. but perhaps interpretation is dependent on cultural context and some may be desensitized to its offensiveness and simply unable to see it for what it is.

joyce went after canadians, now she's going after latinos ... says a lot. says she's scared and feels a need to create a boogieman.

 

[madhi19]

So I went away from this thread for a few days anything changed yet? Yeah did not think so either!

 

[Gump Hasek]

there really is no reasonable way to interpret her comments other than them being not-so-subtly racist.

"Not-so-subtly" is putting it kindly.

 

[aqib]

"Not-so-subtly" is putting it kindly.

its the dog whistle strategy. you use certain terms to make certain implications. Like when someone says "he will pursue an urban-centric agenda" it means "he is going to take your money and give to black people." She is being much more blatant this time.

BTW if she doesn't like Canadians or Latinos she must really hate Raffi Torres

 

[Evil Doctor]

I think you meant Glendale First! herr doktor..... And they have been very open as to what they're about.

Do try again.

Arrrgghh.......

That's it, from now on everyone wear nametags....

Darn it, I knew that sounded wrong. Still, I don't think Frates is being dishonest here...

 

[Evil Doctor]

joyce went after canadians, now she's going after latinos ... says a lot. says she's scared and feels a need to create a boogieman.

So now we've gone from 'Ev0l Canadian Media' to Latino Conspiracy. As they say on Chris Creamer's site...Major Downgrade....

 

[cbcwpg]

"but but but, it's different ..."

fwiw, I agree completely with your view on this. there really is no reasonable way to interpret her comments other than them being not-so-subtly racist. but perhaps interpretation is dependent on cultural context and some may be desensitized to its offensiveness and simply unable to see it for what it is.

joyce went after canadians, now she's going after latinos ... says a lot. says she's scared and feels a need to create a boogieman.

Joyce is just doing what every other politician does when they are trying to get re-elected after a disastrous run... it's called deflection.

"Re-elect me... because all those problems that have happened in the past ... it was them, not me"

Insert whatever race, creed, color, country, institute, other council member... for "them" you want to deflect blame to.

Sorry Joyce, but it was all your fault the CoG is in the position you are in. "Man up", accept it, step aside, and let someone else try to right the ship. Don't worry, I'm sure if you don't get re-elected Shane Doan will still love you.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

And yet another chance to ask you to back up your oft-repeated claim ...

Why would the existence of the Aeros (a tenant in the Toyota center) be somehow an insurmountable obstacle to an NHL team moving/expanding to Houston - assuming a satisfactory ownership/lease agreement were struck with Les Alexander?

And yet another chance for you to not answer the question and change the subject.

edit: And similar arguments hold for Hamilton and Milwaukee - if an NHL owner chose to move or the League elected to expand to those cities (assuming lease and territorial issues were worked out), the existence of the AHL teams would be a non-issue.

Because it never happened before, oh wait, yes it did, Denver (grizzlies) Minnesota (Moose) Phoenix (Roadrunners)

 

[Killion]

So now we've gone from 'Ev0l Canadian Media' to Latino Conspiracy. As they say on Chris Creamer's site...Major Downgrade....

Us and Them
And after all were ordinary men
Me and you
God only knows its not what we would choose to do

Forward she cried from the rear
And the front rank died
And the General sat as the lines on the map
Moved from side to side

Black and Blue
And who knows which is which and who is who
Up and Down
And in the end its only round and round

Havent you heard
Its a Battle of Words
The Poster bearer cried

 

[CasualFan]

Beavis Pack as source...

http://nebulousverbosity.com/?p=1663


http://nebulousverbosity.com/?p=1639

Yikes.

Robocall guy? That can't be what Legend was talking about. No one would actually cite that as a legitimate source, right? It's the same imbecile who accused Goldwater of "nefarious" activities because he didn't understand how 501/NPO entities are regulated. For the record, I didn't have a closed mind about that site. I reviewed it objectively. It was readily apparent that the author was some fringe lunatic, completely ignorant on the subject matter he attempted to write about. There is nothing credible on the site. It's one deranged individual spouting baseless, asinine conspiracy theories. Go figure, all of the subjects of his crackpot theories are critical of the Coyotes deal. I'm sure that's just a coincidence.

 

[kdb209]

Because it never happened before, oh wait, yes it did, Denver (grizzlies) Minnesota (Moose) Phoenix (Roadrunners)

The Moose did left several years before the Wild came, but I will add my personal experience - the Long Island Ducks.

 

[Blue Warriors]

If 1-Jamison will not buy the team until there's a new CBA
2-The CoG will not sign a lease with Jamison until he buys the team
3- The NHL will not sell the team until a lease is signed

It can only end either if a new CBA is reached while Glendale is still willing to give a major subsidy
or if the CoG becomes hostile to the subsidy and lets Jamison walk away.
Am I missing something?

 

[goyotes]

If 1-Jamison will not buy the team until there's a new CBA
2-The CoG will not sign a lease with Jamison until he buys the team
3- The NHL will not sell the team until a lease is signed

It can only end either if a new CBA is reached while Glendale is still willing to give a major subsidy
or if the CoG becomes hostile to the subsidy and lets Jamison walk away.
Am I missing something?

I'm not sure Jamison will not by he team without a new CBA. Jamison was prepared to sign the lease and at least allegedly prepared to close on the sale several weeks ago. The CoG would not sign the lease Jamison negotiated back in June. I think now the hold up is less about the CBA than it is about an acceptable lease to Jamison and more importantly, his investors (assuming he still has them). Just my opinion.