Phoenix CXXIII: Who Wants to Pay Our Bills?

[Llama19]

Wait this is the ONLY legislative session of the YEAR? Wow, nice gig.

Technically, yes...the 'official' session is only 100 days to do the state's business...

However, there can be 'special sessions' called by either the Governor or by the legislative body, itself...

For example, there were four sessions called in 2011, one in 2013, one in 2014, and one in 2015...

The 2015 special session dealt with a special statewide election and two education based bills...

Since LeBlanc thinks his new arena is 'special,' he might get one too...

 

[Killion]

Wait this is the ONLY legislative session of the YEAR? Wow, nice gig.

... yeah, no kidding. and its not just Arizonas' legislature, its most of them including the Provincial Legislatures & both Federal Governments.

 

[BattleBorn]

Nevada's legislature is in session for 90 days every other year. That's the gig.

It doesn't pay well, but a solid three months of work out of 24 sounds good to me if I was independently wealthy and just wanted a cool position to put on my resume.

ETA: Turns out it's 120 days, not 90. Still, not bad.

 

[Glacial]

Wait this is the ONLY legislative session of the YEAR? Wow, nice gig.

A lot of states are like that. Doesn't Texas, despite their size, only meet every other year? Seems bizarre. My state I think has at least 2 sessions a year.

Wait. So your real name isn't Tom Servo, etc.?? I thought everybody used their real names on these boards! OK, that helps explain some things.

I thought he was a gumball machine posting from orbit via a Canadian communication connection. The Coyotes saga has been suspiciously similar to a bad B-movie.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Wait. So your real name isn't Tom Servo, etc.?? I thought everybody used their real names on these boards! OK, that helps explain some things.

Dankochik - is that from one of the famed Ukrainians to Manitoba migrations? I don't know if this is Ukrainian or Russian, but just north of the MN/MB border is the town of Tolstoi - closest thing to the looks of a town on the Russian-Ukrainian plains I've ever seen, not having been over there. Good writing in your article, and TFP's writing, too. Maybe a book on this saga will get written, after all!

Thanks, and thanks to everyone for the kind words about the article. A bigger thanks to killion for pointing out my mistakes.

Yeah, the name is really confusing. Its an anglonized version of a slovak name.

 

[Llama19]

A lot of states are like that. Doesn't Texas, despite their size, only meet every other year? Seems bizarre. My state I think has at least 2 sessions a year.

I thought he was a gumball machine posting from orbit via a Canadian communication connection. The Coyotes saga has been suspiciously similar to a bad B-movie.

This endless searching by LeBlanc, is reminding me of this movie - Holes...

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

If I get any angry facebook messages, I know who sent them.

Yes I'm talking to you Leblanc, I know you lurk here

To be fair to Ice Edge, I don't think they ever had a chance. Like I said in my article, when the NHL needs to gift you 85 mill towards the purchase of a team, it's not a recipe for success. It seems like the group is doing a fine job running the AHL team.

 

[WildGopher]

Technically, yes...the 'official' session is only 100 days to do the state's business...

However, there can be 'special sessions' called by either the Governor or by the legislative body, itself...

For example, there were four sessions called in 2011, one in 2013, one in 2014, and one in 2015...

The 2015 special session dealt with a special statewide election and two education based bills...

Since LeBlanc thinks his new arena is 'special,' he might get one too...

This might have been among the several articles you've posted, but if not, it's Worsley's bit of public lobbying through the press for his bill.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/2017/03/02/arizona-coyotes-arena-bill-worsley/98540854/

What I find most interesting are the two items in this quote: "SB 1149 tears up the playbook on facility deals. The legislation calls for the reinvestment of a portion of state tax revenues on the site."

Yeah, well, it certainly tears up the playbook in building a SECOND state of the art arena for a team in the same market. And that "reinvestment" is another word for "tax money given to the team." That, in a nutshell, is the scheme. And as I've pointed out before, if the newly generated tax money is not given to the team, but instead goes into the state's coffers, then legislative rules would require the Senate pass it with a 2/3rd majority of 20 votes, instead of a majority of 16. So of course they weren't going to make it harder for themselves to pass the bill - anyway, IA needs that revenue, so it was always a non-starter for the state to keep the new tax revenue.

 

[Killion]

^^^ yeah.... thing is WG, my gut tells me this is far from over & I fully expect another attempt to jam this thing through, very likely under the guise of a totally unrelated bill, quick surreptitious strike content order, re-written, back-door-thief-in-the-night nonsense, the kind of business as usual tricks of the legislative process that weve all come to witness over the years and not just in Arizona. These people are weasels, crafty, tricky... Worsley & his supporters I do not believe will go quietly into the night.

 

[Llama19]

^^^ yeah.... thing is WG, my gut tells me this is far from over & I fully expect another attempt to jam this thing through, very likely under the guise of a totally unrelated bill, quick surreptitious strike content order, re-written, back-door-thief-in-the-night nonsense, the kind of business as usual tricks of the legislative process that weve all come to witness over the years and not just in Arizona. These people are weasels, crafty, tricky... Worsley & his supporters I do not believe will go quietly into the night.

This is a very high stakes game LeBlanc is playing...

He, apparently, does not have the votes in the Senate to pass SB1149, hence why it has been 'pulled' and has not come to the floor...

Could there be a scenario where a House bill is used where another 'strike everything' is done and he somehow thinks that he can get the votes in the House, instead?

In this political climate...where there are few funds even for education...

It is still a moonshot...but a shot that will likely be taken...

 

[WildGopher]

^^^ yeah.... thing is WG, my gut tells me this is far from over & I fully expect another attempt to jam this thing through, very likely under the guise of a totally unrelated bill, quick surreptitious strike content order, re-written, back-door-thief-in-the-night nonsense, the kind of business as usual tricks of the legislative process that weve all come to witness over the years and not just in Arizona. These people are weasels, crafty, tricky... Worsley & his supporters I do not believe will go quietly into the night.

Yes, that could still happen; it will be interesting to see how gritty IA and Axiom are willing to get to push this, even if it means burning some important other bridges. They might feel they have nothing to lose.

What you suggest can be done - I once lobbied a bill where we sprung a surprise on the state House of Representatives, amending our bill on the floor to related bill and getting it passed. As a matter of fact, it might have been a complete replace - what Arizona calls a Strike Everything Amendment like Worsley did - I don't remember.

But there was one huge difference: Our bill had the support of the more than 2/3rds of the House; it was a very popular bill. But one lone committee chair didn't like it, so we never got the courtesy of a vote in committee, or even a hearing. It was left to languish and die there, and we weren't going to let that happen.

There is no way that IA, Axiom, and Worsley could ever claim that they haven't been given every opportunity and fairness. I mean, this bill has already had 3 of a cat's 9 lives, and it's still breathing and alive. It was supposed to lose in the Commerce Committee and be toast, done, a former parrot, as Monty Python would have said. But Worsley did his switcheroo and it got revived in the Transporation Committee and passed. Then, according to Craig Harris' article, at least 4 of the 7 members of the Rules Committee oppose Worsley's bill, but they didn't vote it down there, but gave it the courtesy to vote it Proper for Consideration, which keeps it alive. Then, they scheduled it for a vote, but was immediately pulled by Worsley, presumably because he doesn't have the votes yet.

I mean, how many chances do you have a right to expect to get? With most bills, it's usually one (or two in legislatures where the bill is typically introduced into both Houses). IA can't possibly argue that they deserve more chances as a way to justify some 11th-hour maneuver. Just let this thing be voted on, up or down, and move on. Even that won't be the end, as most of us believe LeBlanc will still lobby Phoenix and the tribes for an arena, and many here believe the NHL will give him another year to try, since they have other reasons for wanting this franchise in AZ for now.

 

[WildGopher]

This is a very high stakes game LeBlanc is playing...

He, apparently, does not have the votes in the Senate to pass SB1149, hence why it has been 'pulled' and has not come to the floor...

Could there be a scenario where a House bill is used where another 'strike everything' is done and he somehow thinks that he can get the votes in the House, instead?

That is a very good question I don't know the answer to. Maybe a local Arizonan could check it out with their legislator. A call to Rep. Kern's office might get the most cooperation.

In the legislature I lobbied in, bills typically had to be introduced into both the House and Senate. If a bill only passed one House, but didn't get introduced in the other House (or if it got defeated in committee in the second House), then it was done, dead for the session.

But I moved to a state that seems to be more like Arizona. There, bills could be introduced in just one House, and if they passed that House by a certain day, there was a "Crossover" day where all bills passed in one House would go over to the other House for assignment to a committee, then possible consideration on the floors, etc.

What I don't know is if that custom precludes someone from introducing the bill in the other House and trying their luck there. Worsley had both Senate and House members as co-sponsors of his original SB1474, so maybe one of them could introduce it in the House to keep it going. Interestingly, he didn't have any House members as a co-sponsor when he did the switcheroo to SB1149 (he only had Sen. Fann), but that might be for other reasons.

Wouldn't it be something if we were watching the Senate for the deadline, and the bill emerged zombie-like out of the House and got passed? That would be the kind of twist and turn we've come to expect in this saga!

 

[Killion]

... Even that won't be the end, as most of us believe LeBlanc will still lobby Phoenix and the tribes for an arena, and many here believe the NHL will give him another year to try, since they have other reasons for wanting this franchise in AZ for now.

Yeah, the one thing he has shown is Bulldog Tenacity since arriving on the scene in 2009. Misguided and disingenuous as his various schemes have been and
having succeeded once, like a perfectly healthy (with a great base upon which to build at GRA) welfare recipient collecting huge benefits refuses to do real work.

Wouldn't it be something if we were watching the Senate for the deadline, and the bill emerged zombie-like out of the House and got passed?

This is what I'm thinkin, their not giving up quite yet from what Im hearing, so yes, absolutely bears watching.

 

[Mightygoose]

My understanding for this thing to be signed into law, it would be need to be approved by both the senate and the house.

So even if IA/Worsley tries a back door strike to get it approved by the house, will it really put them far enough ahead if they still don't have the votes in the Senate?

 

[WildGopher]

Could there be a scenario where a House bill is used where another 'strike everything' is done and he somehow thinks that he can get the votes in the House, instead?

I don't know if a strike-everything amendment can still be done to a bill in the House, but it looks like it'd be hard (but not impossible) for a brand new version of Worsley's bill to be introduced in the House. It's after the deadline of 29 days and the Rules Committee would have to approve a late bill introduction. This is from an online post "How a bill becomes law in Arizona," by Arizona State University:

In the House, bills must be introduced in the first 29 days of a regular session and the first 10 days of a special session. In the Senate, bills must be introduced in the first 22 days of a regular session and the first 10 days of a special session. In both the House and the Senate, Rules Committee approval is needed to introduce bills after the deadline.

 

[WildGopher]

My understanding for this thing to be signed into law, it would be need to be approved by both the senate and the house.

So even if IA/Worsley tries a back door strike to get it approved by the house, will it really put them far enough ahead if they stioo don't have the votes in the Senate?

Good point. The only advantage I can think of is that passing the bill somewhere would at least give a sense of momentum and support for the bill, and maybe that would get a Senator or two to give it a second look. I know that's a stretch, but I think IA has to be grasping at straws for any way to get this thing some more support.

 

[blues10]

Put me in the group that thinks Worsley's bill still has some life to it weather that is life support or being brought back to life I don't know. Can foresee some strange dealings ahead.

What would Axiom be charging IA for all of their efforts? Are meeting dates and times between Axiom and politicians public knowledge?

IF a municipality stepped forward and declared they had the $55 million to make it work with IA would that get the ball rolling?

It does make sense that Tony has his yap closed at such a crucial time, he must have taken advice from someone. I can't see a Canadian Businessman rallying for support of a bill that gives US tax dollars to an ownership group of primarily Canadians being too poplar with the voting US public.

 

[aqib]

This might have been among the several articles you've posted, but if not, it's Worsley's bit of public lobbying through the press for his bill.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/2017/03/02/arizona-coyotes-arena-bill-worsley/98540854/

What I find most interesting are the two items in this quote: "SB 1149 tears up the playbook on facility deals. The legislation calls for the reinvestment of a portion of state tax revenues on the site."

Yeah, well, it certainly tears up the playbook in building a SECOND state of the art arena for a team in the same market. And that "reinvestment" is another word for "tax money given to the team." That, in a nutshell, is the scheme. And as I've pointed out before, if the newly generated tax money is not given to the team, but instead goes into the state's coffers, then legislative rules would require the Senate pass it with a 2/3rd majority of 20 votes, instead of a majority of 16. So of course they weren't going to make it harder for themselves to pass the bill - anyway, IA needs that revenue, so it was always a non-starter for the state to keep the new tax revenue.

The thing I find disturbing was the part where he talked about NCAA tourney and other events. Don't they already have a place for them?

 

[Llama19]

The thing I find disturbing was the part where he talked about NCAA tourney and other events. Don't they already have a place for them?

Well...it is Senator Worsley stating 'alternate facts' as it is certainly not being played in Gila River Arena...it is being hosted in the University of Phoenix Stadium...

To quote:

"The weeklong event, which could generate $100 million to $150 million in economic impact, will culminate with games April 1 and 3, 2017 at University of Phoenix Stadium in Glendale.

"This is Phoenix's time to shine," said ASU Vice President for Athletics Ray Anderson, who was part of the local committee presenting Wednesday. "We thank all the partners who made this a truly community effort. We are grateful for the privilege of hosting this iconic event and promise to provide an unforgettable experience for the NCAA, student-athletes, alumni and fans."

Pac-12 Commissioner Larry Scott said, "I am thrilled for the city of Phoenix and for Arizona State. The city and organizing group will serve as great partners for the Final Four and deliver a dynamic atmosphere for our student-athletes and fans."

Glendale Mayor Jerry Weiers said the announcement is a pleasant surprise for the West Valley city.

"Well, that's awesome!" he said. "I guess it goes to show that Arizona and Glendale are a first-class place to host this event."

Source: http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...4/ncaa-final-four-asu-phoenix-pac12/19038437/

 

[WildGopher]

. . . Pac-12 Commissioner Larry Scott said, "I am thrilled for the city of Phoenix and for Arizona State. The city and organizing group will serve as great partners for the Final Four . . .

Which brings up a pet peeve of mine, maybe topic for a different thread, but definitely a Business of Hockey subject. When the NCAA did their cheap gimmick and changed the name of NCAA hockey division 1 and 3 tournaments from the "Final Four" to the chincey-sounding "Frozen Four," they took something from those athletes.

In the U.S., that phrase "Final Four" means something. It denotes excellence of teams that really put it together with grit and skill to get through a tough tournament. Even hockey fans would know of all the hoopla surrounding basketball's Final Four, where the phrase got the most publicity.

The marketing "wizards" at NCAA headquarters in Indianapolis probably thought they came up with a gem, but all they did was to cheapen it. "Frozen" isn't some exotic state, but for most hockey players, as natural to their experience as players as a warm summer is to a baseball player. We skate on the lakes and ponds; heck, I walked to my mom's house by walking across a lake. It was the fastest route. What's the big, exotic mystery here unless you're a marketing wizard sitting in an office somewhere and knowing nothing about the sport.

I've heard others complain about what those marketing bozos did to the great achievement of those attaining the Final Four, which is what I still call it and always will. It's like if someone came up with the brilliant idea of changing the name of the our state high school hockey tournament, which Herb Brooks said just getting there was a bigger thrill for him than his Olympic appearances as a player and coach. Yeah, since the kids play in rinks, let's call the tournament and kids "Rinky Dinks." Congrats, son, you qualified for the Rinky Dinks. What a bunch of bozos.

 

[aqib]

Well...it is Senator Worsley stating 'alternate facts' as it is certainly not being played in Gila River Arena...it is being hosted in the University of Phoenix Stadium...

To quote:

"The weeklong event, which could generate $100 million to $150 million in economic impact, will culminate with games April 1 and 3, 2017 at University of Phoenix Stadium in Glendale.

"This is Phoenix's time to shine," said ASU Vice President for Athletics Ray Anderson, who was part of the local committee presenting Wednesday. "We thank all the partners who made this a truly community effort. We are grateful for the privilege of hosting this iconic event and promise to provide an unforgettable experience for the NCAA, student-athletes, alumni and fans."

Pac-12 Commissioner Larry Scott said, "I am thrilled for the city of Phoenix and for Arizona State. The city and organizing group will serve as great partners for the Final Four and deliver a dynamic atmosphere for our student-athletes and fans."

Glendale Mayor Jerry Weiers said the announcement is a pleasant surprise for the West Valley city.

"Well, that's awesome!" he said. "I guess it goes to show that Arizona and Glendale are a first-class place to host this event."
has
Source: http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...4/ncaa-final-four-asu-phoenix-pac12/19038437/

Yeah the final 4 is always played in domed football stadiums, but I think he was referring to preliminary rounds which are played in standard basketball arenas. I am not sure if Gila River has hosted an NCAA tournament game but I am sure it could just as easily as any other arena that LeBlanc can conjure up.

 

[Llama19]

Yeah the final 4 is always played in domed football stadiums, but I think he was referring to preliminary rounds which are played in standard basketball arenas. I am not sure if Gila River has hosted an NCAA tournament game but I am sure it could just as easily as any other arena that LeBlanc can conjure up.

LeBlanc has not even been able to conjure up his 'pile of dirt'...

Instead, ASU kicked him to the curb along that dusty legislative road...

So far, he is still traveling along that path...parched from the lack of a 'subsidy'...with just a mirage of an arena...off in the distant desert horizon...

 

[sipowicz]

LeBlanc has not even been able to conjure up his 'pile of dirt'...

Instead, ASU kicked him to the curb along that dusty legislative road...

So far, he is still traveling along that path...parched from the lack of a 'subsidy'...with just a mirage of an arena...off in the distant desert horizon...

It's hard to believe that it was way back in 2011 that the current Jets ownership came within 15 minutes of landing the Coyotes and relocating them to Winnipeg. Six years later and what's really changed for the Coyotes in Glendale? Has to be the slowest moving train-wreck in the history of train-wrecks!

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

LeBlanc has not even been able to conjure up his 'pile of dirt'...

Instead, ASU kicked him to the curb along that dusty legislative road...

So far, he is still traveling along that path...parched from the lack of a 'subsidy'...with just a mirage of an arena...off in the distant desert horizon...

ASU, didn't do any of that, because wasn't it their plot of land to be used, so how is that even plausible?

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

It's hard to believe that it was way back in 2011 that the current Jets ownership came within 15 minutes of landing the Coyotes and relocating them to Winnipeg. Six years later and what's really changed for the Coyotes in Glendale? Has to be the slowest moving train-wreck in the history of train-wrecks!

then what was Shenkarow, then, Sipowicz, he's the one who turned this franchise towards the desert....