Phoenix CXXIII: Who Wants to Pay Our Bills?

[Llama19]

I don't think I would be surprised at anything that happens in this saga.

LeBlanc could reveal himself as leader of the Lizard people, and that they love the Phoenix Coyotes, and will be funding them going forward, and my reaction would be: "Huh, I guess that makes sense."

Might be on to something there.... supposedly.... major underground bases in the Superstition Mountains, peppered throughout the state... been there for 1000's of years... Reptilians... Crypto Terrestrials from God only knows where.... recent sighting in fact just outside of Tucson on the Old Pueblo Trail that winds its way through the Sonoran desert, used by off-road mountain bikers, like a 24hr extreme trek type dealeo... 3 guys riding along and sure enough, much to their total shock, amazement & then absolute terror, all stone cold sober, middle of the afternoon about 9 hours into it and just up ahead on the trail....

Folks...we are in the 'Land of the Lost' and LeBlanc is a Sleestak!

 

[Llama19]

Rep Anthony Kern's Press Conference from March 1, 2017

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Wouldn't it be cheaper to build a road exclusively for Coyotes fans/Concert fans from Tempe to GRA? It's what, A million dollars a mile for a road?

Or maybe even a...

MONORAIL!

The fight for commuter rail has been going on since I was in high school in Scottsdale. Everybody realizes three things:

1. Commuter rail would solve a ton of commuting issues.
2. Commuter rail would help drive more traffic to events around the Valley.
3. No way in hell does anyone in the Valley want their taxes raised to pay for it.

It's a losing battle because, after all, this is Phoenix, and trying to do the sensible thing is anathema.

Is Sloane Park the greatest location in North America for the Coyotes? Is this where all the money is that Tony speaks of? Is this where all the ice hockey fans are in Arizona?

I'll tell you what - it's smack dab in the middle of New Chicago. So we could guarantee at least that every Blackhawks game will be a sellout... full of Blackhawks fans. As for the rest of the games... who knows.

Folks...we are in the 'Land of the Lost' and LeBlanc is a Sleestak!

+1 for the deep dive!

 

[MNNumbers]

^^^^ It looks like there isn't anyone else there, and he is just talking into the wind....

 

[Slashers98]

^^^^ It looks like there isn't anyone else there, and he is just talking into the wind....

It raises the question: Will the Coyotes be soon gone with the wind?

 

[Whileee]

Isn't that what this board is for?



This isn't your Glendale 7-member City Council...we are talking about 60 Senators and House Representatives...

But...you are right...they could be just as stupid, too...

After several years of studying all aspects of the Glendale market, LeBlanc assured the politicians and public that they could turn the Coyotes and GRA into a financially viable operation within a few years. After a couple of years of owning and operating the Coyotes in Glendale they've concluded that an NHL team is not viable in that location.

They don't exactly inspire confidence.

 

[powerstuck]

Everyone in Phoenix, in Arizona and elsewhere in the world could do just as good job as Leblanc.

Spending others peoples money isn't hard.

 

[Killion]

After several years of studying all aspects of the Glendale market, LeBlanc assured the politicians and public that they could turn the Coyotes and GRA into a financially viable operation within a few years. After a couple of years of owning and operating the Coyotes in Glendale they've concluded that an NHL team is not viable in that location.

They don't exactly inspire confidence.

Yes, and speaks to bigger issues, that of character. Honesty. Credibility. Integrity.

 

[Killion]

Give me wrestling parallels any day over space parallels.

... ok... and in the same vein as my post above, apparently to Senator Worsley
in considering the City of Glendale, the NHL & IA's track record & the electorate itself....

............................................................................... what you think.

 

[Glacial]

What's around Sloan Park? I doubt he's talking about tearing it down because it just opened 3 years ago and the Cubs have obviously been a big draw.

 

[Llama19]

What's around Sloan Park? I doubt he's talking about tearing it down because it just opened 3 years ago and the Cubs have obviously been a big draw.

This article, Report: Arizona Coyotes exploring new arena site in Mesa, has some details...but there are other issues noted, such as parking...

Source: http://www.fiveforhowling.com/2017/...a-sloan-park-cubs-spring-training-ice-arizona

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Is a 20 mile difference worth a brand new arena in the Valley?

You might ask the same question of Ottawa Senators fans.

 

[Llama19]

... ok... and in the same vein as my post above, apparently to Senator Worsley
in considering the City of Glendale, the NHL & IA's track record & the electorate itself....

............................................................................... what you think.

The Rock? I think this wrestler is more appropriate, in more ways than one...

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

You might ask the same question of Ottawa Senators fans.

I don't ask questions of any fanbase. At this point it's useless, especially in Arizona. The fact that anyone shows up is a testament to the potential of the Market.

Onto your point:

Yup you're right. Only an 8 year difference in between opening. Ottawa's building is 20 years old, and should be lasting them longer. They should take the money they will invest in a new arena, and instead build a road out to the old one as well.

This has what to do with Phoenix? I know the thread gets a lot of "drive-bys" taking shots at the market, but I would think I would get a pass I wrote this:

For my published weekly sports column.

That's gotta be worth something

EDIT: That is one ugly mug and it's not even the most embarrassing selfie I've posted to HF

 

[Mightygoose]

Yes Ottawa's arena is only 21 years old but the only reason why they're looking to build downtown is because the NCC invited them to bid which they won the rights and just need to negotiate the development contract.

Their current building was privately built much like the new one should it come online so there should be no reason to compare their enveador to the Coyotes. Speaking of building a road, they had to finance the interchange off the highway to arena. A sports team paying for public infrastructure...imagine that.

 

[Acesolid]

I don't ask questions of any fanbase. At this point it's useless, especially in Arizona. The fact that anyone shows up is a testament to the potential of the Market.

Onto your point:

Yup you're right. Only an 8 year difference in between opening. Ottawa's building is 20 years old, and should be lasting them longer. They should take the money they will invest in a new arena, and instead build a road out to the old one as well.

This has what to do with Phoenix? I know the thread gets a lot of "drive-bys" taking shots at the market, but I would think I would get a pass I wrote this:

...

For my published weekly sports column.

That's gotta be worth something

EDIT: That is one ugly mug and it's not even the most embarrassing selfie I've posted to HF

Great article man!

I hope you'll be the one to write the book on the incredible decade long Coyotes Saga (published in twelve tomes totaling ‎32,640 pages). Once this is all over of course (if it ever ends).

Truly it is the next Game Of Thrones. I cannot wait for the HBO TV adaptation of it. With Kit Harrington playing Matthew Hulsizer, Sean Bean playing Jerry M. Reinsdorf, Jim Carrey as Jim Balsillie, and with Peter Dinklage playing Gary Bettman.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

For my published weekly sports column.

That's gotta be worth something

If a kudo from me is worth anything, you've got it. Great "high level" assessment of the situation and I appreciate the friendly tag at the end - even though it's probably unrealistic.

I'm amused at the Sloan Park idea, by the way. Building at Sloan Park would have the exact same effect on fans like me that Westgate is having on fans who live in Tempe, Mesa, and Gilbert, and it wouldn't be much fun either for fans in Scottsdale who'd have to brave rush-hour traffic on the SB 101, particularly when it gets around the 202 interchange. You're basically just trading suburb for suburb. Sloan Park is great for Cubs and Blackhawks fans, though. Put a Gino's East in the complex and a couple of giant fans to simulate lake effect wind and you'd be all set.

 

[Mightygoose]

I think Llama or MNN found that March 24 was the last day that a bill passed in one House could be passed by a committee in the other House. After that, it couldn't be voted on by the committee, so would be dead unless amended to some other bill, which is very unlikely.

Yes, that does ring a bell - appreciate that.

So if I understand correctly, they at the minimum need senate approval by or or likley before this date otherwise, this thing still on a Jell-O foundation.

If they don't schedule any votes in the Senate on the weekend then if my math is correct, this is the 16th to last day it can be approved by the Senate to have even a chance of a change.

Will need to adjust my doomsday clock

 

[MNNumbers]

If a kudo from me is worth anything, you've got it. Great "high level" assessment of the situation and I appreciate the friendly tag at the end - even though it's probably unrealistic.

I'm amused at the Sloan Park idea, by the way. Building at Sloan Park would have the exact same effect on fans like me that Westgate is having on fans who live in Tempe, Mesa, and Gilbert, and it wouldn't be much fun either for fans in Scottsdale who'd have to brave rush-hour traffic on the SB 101, particularly when it gets around the 202 interchange. You're basically just trading suburb for suburb. Sloan Park is great for Cubs and Blackhawks fans, though. Put a Gino's East in the complex and a couple of giant fans to simulate lake effect wind and you'd be all set.

Come on, TFP.....

You know it has nothing to do with the location in whatever part of the Valley. That's just convenient excuse and lies.

It's really about the AMF, er I'm sorry, subsidy, that a municipality is paying.

Has anyone forgotten this quote, perhaps not verbatim, from LeBlanc, "They just don't understand the industry." Spoken when Glendale dismissed them as arena managers and put the management out for bids. Of course, what that really means is...."The only way this industry works is that the municipality has to give complete control of the arena to the team. And, pay the team to take such control. Everyone knows that. Glendale is stupid to not understand that....." There is no other conclusion to which a person could arrive.....

AMF canceled? Blame Glendale, because "They don't understand." But, don't say that directly....Later....
"It's location. All our fans are in another part of the market." Obviously means, "We hope a different city understands the industry...."

Please pay our bills for us. Please.

I'm so sick of this.....

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Come on, TFP.....

You know it has nothing to do with the location in whatever part of the Valley. That's just convenient excuse and lies.

*I* know that, *you* know that, but there is a vocal minority of Coyotes fans who don't and who would see a Sloan Park arena as the salvation of Arizona hockey. Coincidentally, they are fans who live in places like Tempe, Mesa, and Gilbert.

Meanwhile, a primo spot still sits up by the 101 and Via de Ventura, and all it would require is for the Coyotes to build their own damn arena.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Great article man!

I hope you'll be the one to write the book on the incredible decade long Coyotes Saga (published in twelve tomes totaling ‎32,640 pages). Once this is all over of course (if it ever ends).

Truly it is the next Game Of Thrones. I cannot wait for the HBO TV adaptation of it. With Kit Harrington playing Matthew Hulsizer, Sean Bean playing Jerry M. Reinsdorf, Jim Carrey as Jim Balsillie, and with Peter Dinklage playing Gary Bettman.

I have the introduction written. I'm quite proud of it, as it gives background on the entire history of the franchise until bankruptcy, (including the problems in Winnipeg) in only 1000 words.

The problem is, And I know multiple people on HF who have tried with the coyotes, and failed because it's hard to write a book with no ending.

How do you frame the initial bankruptcy in 2009? The first in a series of trials that the team overcomes? Or the tipping point for years of bad luck ownership, which sent the team on a death spiral, impossible to pull out of.

 

[Llama19]

I have the introduction written. I'm quite proud of it, as it gives background on the entire history of the franchise until bankruptcy, (including the problems in Winnipeg) in only 1000 words.

The problem is, And I know multiple people on HF who have tried with the coyotes, and failed because it's hard to write a book with no ending.

How do you frame the initial bankruptcy in 2009? The first in a series of trials that the team overcomes? Or the tipping point for years of bad luck ownership, which sent the team on a death spiral, impossible to pull out of.

Based on the almost eight years removed from 2009...it was the tipping point...
sucked into a financial blackhole in this market...
no longer having any subsidy to offset the gravitational pull...

 

[Killion]

EDIT: That is one ugly mug and it's not even the most embarrassing selfie I've posted to HF

... ahhhh, no worries, its whats inside that counts plus... you look like a nice friendly fellow, took some guts to post that, good for you.... interesting name too... sounds like the kinda handle someone would give to a character, recurring role in a 70's show like Mod Squad... Starsky & Hutch... Got it all goin on there... Cassidy.... the Dank (as in Jersey/NY speak Danke meaning "thanks" and "thats awesome" etc ) ending with "chik.... Cassidy Dankochik, Bail Bondsman. Like that very cool guy in the movie Jackie Brown... Undercover Brother.... something Tarantino would come up with... and I guess you knew this was comin, couple of corrections.... 1) The Arena Mgmnt Fee was $15M per annum not $10M and... 2) IA didnt hire the former City Manager from Glendale, they hired the City Attorney, Craig Tindal... along with the former Director of Communications Julie Frisoni (who was working as a Contractor, not an employee with IA, whereas Lawyer Tindal was a F/T employee).... But beyond that, yes, nicely done.

I'm so sick of this.....

So you keep sayin MNN but like a train wreck, how'dya lookaway?

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

... ahhhh, no worries, its whats inside that counts plus... you look like a nice friendly fellow, took some guts to post that, good for you.... interesting name too... sounds like the kinda handle someone would give to a character, recurring role in a 70's show like Mod Squad... Starsky & Hutch... Got it all goin on there... Cassidy.... the Dank (as in Jersey/NY speak Danke meaning "thanks" and "thats awesome" etc ) ending with "chik.... Cassidy Dankochik, Bail Bondsman. Like in that movie Jackie Brown... Undercover Brother.... hard assed member of the NYPD Narc Squad or whatever... and I guess you knew this was comin, couple of corrections.... 1) The Arena Mgmnt Fee was $15M per annum not $10M and... 2) IA didnt hire the former City Manager from Glendale, they hired the City Attorney, Craig Tindal... along with the former Director of Communications Julie Frisoni (who was working as a Contractor, not an employee with IA, whereas Lawyer Tindal was a F/T employee).... But beyond that, yes, nicely done.



So you keep sayin MNN but like a train wreck, how'dya lookaway?

RE: Corrections.

Didn't the payments equal out to 10 mill per year over the course of the lease? Started at 15 and went down IIRC.

As for Attorney vs Manager: that's a straight up brain fart. I've always gotten the two mixed up.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

How do you frame the initial bankruptcy in 2009? The first in a series of trials that the team overcomes? Or the tipping point for years of bad luck ownership, which sent the team on a death spiral, impossible to pull out of.

I swore I would never do this, but your question is just too on point for me not to.

From (believe it or not) my actual, existing manuscript, the beginning of my foreword:

A National Hockey League arena feels cold with only six thousand people in it.

It is not just a cold brought on by temperature. There is a loneliness, a desolation, that sinks deep into the marrow of anyone who considers himself a fan of the Great Sport.

For what seems like miles, empty seats range to the limits of vision. Small pockets of life and warmth occasionally catch the eye, but the sound of their cheers and encouragement are as reedy and full of echoes as a cry for help at the bottom of a canyon.

This is Glendale Arena in Arizona, circa 2009. It has been the home of an NHL franchise for just over six years, but soon it may end up empty. More empty, if it can be believed, than it is right now, because right now, at least, there are players on the ice still wearing the home colors.

But no one knows for how much longer. Because in the sharp, cold air of the rink, there is a new, terrifying sensation of impending abandonment... the realization that the blade that has hung over the necks of every professional hockey fan in the Valley of the Sun since 1996 might actually fall.

And soon.

I know, I know, it's very Todd Walsh. If I ever decide to move beyond catharsis and think about publication, I'll tone it down.