Phoenix CXXIII: Who Wants to Pay Our Bills?

[Tom ServoMST3K]

I swore I would never do this, but your question is just too on point for me not to.

From (believe it or not) my actual, existing manuscript, the beginning of my foreward:



I know, I know, it's very Todd Walsh. If I ever decide to move beyond catharsis and think about publication, I'll tone it down.

Very nice, emotional writing there. Something I could never touch in anything I wrote on the subject. I'm a big believer in, if you're gunna get all fancy and poetic, do it right at the beginning, or right at the end.

 

[Killion]

RE: Corrections.

Didn't the payments equal out to 10 mill per year over the course of the lease?

As for Attorney vs Manager: that's a straight up brain fart.

... well, the 1st year, 13/14 wouldve been amortized somewhat so I guess you get off on a technicality with that one Chik.... but the other bit there, no, no no... You were prolly thinking of Ed Beasley, the City Manager for like a decade who in many ways was singlehandedly responsible for this entire mess. Running the City right into the ditch, hanging onto the edge of cliff by their fingernails facing insolvency... looking at having to privatize essential services & sell city properties including City Hall itself then Leasing it back so they could still operate, have a roof over their heads.... Beasley then resigning from Glendale and guess where he goes to work?.... Colliers International, Phoenix Office.... heads up the department that specializes in municipal re-financing including the acquisition & management thereafter of said buildings.... quite the scam huh? Drives the city into the red with the arena & Westgate, hiring civil fraudster consultants like Hocking etc, then bails when it all blows up hoping to pickup the pieces by way of his new position at Collier's.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

... well, the 1st year, 13/14 wouldve been amortized somewhat so I guess you get off on a technicality with that one Chik.... but the other bit there, no, no no... You were prolly thinking of Ed Beasley, the City Manager for like a decade who in many ways was singlehandedly responsible for this entire mess. Running the City right into the ditch, hanging onto the edge of cliff by their fingernails facing insolvency... looking atr having to privatize essential services & sell city properties including City Hall itself then Leasing it back so they could still operate, have a roof over their heads.... Beasley then resigning from Glendale and guess where he goes to work?.... Colliers International, Phoenix Office.... heads up the department that specializes in municipal re-financing including the acquisition & management thereafter of said buildings.... quite scam huh? Drives the city so far into the red with the arena & Westgate, hiring civil fraudster consultants like Hocking etc, then bails when it all blows up hoping to pickup the pieces by way of Collier.

I honestly think I combined the two people in my head Always gotta double check those job titles. First question I ask in an interview: "Name and title"

oh well.

Also:

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Very nice, emotional writing there. Something I could never touch in anything I wrote on the subject. I'm a big believer in, if you're gunna get all fancy and poetic, do it right at the beginning, or right at the end.

Yeah, that's a pretty basic rule for any sort of analytical treatise. The rest of the foreword ranges back to the WHA Jets and then forward to the beginning of negotiations between Glendale, the NHL, and IceArizona, and the tone gets more businesslike after that initial spasm.

I just wanted to get my talons into the reader's heart from the get-go...

 

[Killion]

I just wanted to get my talons into the reader's heart from the get-go...

... and well done... same with music, youve got about 3 bars to get that hook in otherwise your done, cooked.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Yeah, that's a pretty basic rule for any sort of analytical treatise. The rest of the foreword ranges back to the WHA Jets and then forward to the beginning of negotiations between Glendale, the NHL, and IceArizona, and the tone gets more businesslike after that initial spasm.

I just wanted to get my talons into the reader's heart from the get-go...

I think not enough is said about how this franchise had terrible ownership in Winnipeg as well as Phoenix. Canadian Markets are not immune to that crap as well. We're in a business boom for Canadian teams, but that could change on a dime.

It's weird. Imagine the NHL is more welcoming to the Jets when they broke into the league. Would we be having this conversation right now? I doubt it.

So in conclusion: Molson's is to blame for the Phoenix Coyotes bad ownership.

 

[MNNumbers]

Not to interrupt the process of good authorship (ahem), but I assume nothing significant happened today at the Leg? What's the status on that bill that mandates a web site where the common people can see what's happening to their money? It just passed the Senate yesterday I think? Is it on the House agenda at all?

 

[DowntownBooster]

I think not enough is said about how this franchise had terrible ownership in Winnipeg as well as Phoenix. Canadian Markets are not immune to that crap as well. We're in a business boom for Canadian teams, but that could change on a dime.

It's weird. Imagine the NHL is more welcoming to the Jets when they broke into the league. Would we be having this conversation right now? I doubt it.

So in conclusion: Molson's is to blame for the Phoenix Coyotes bad ownership.

I don't think you could say the Jets had terrible ownership. Barry Shenkarow did all he could to keep the franchise viable under the circumstances at the time. Had there been the combination of a new arena, salary cap and revenue sharing when it was needed in 1995, there is no doubt the team would have remained in Winnipeg. And had the team stayed here, Glendale would have been in less of a financial mess than it is now.

 

[MNNumbers]

Citing this article again. Read the last half, in regard to Coyotes and Glendale having discussions.

I like the way Phelps brings out what is needed.

Personally, again, I am only interested in gov't bodies making good decisions. If IA wants to goof off and lose their money, that's fine with me. Losing Taxpayer money is not fine with me.

Phelps lays out a nice case....

Best the fan base in the West Valley, which is growing. This means actual marketing.
Put a better product on the ice.

"Very few markets can sustain long stretches of losing."

He gets it, I think.

IA wanted to talk about why it can't work financially there. I would love to have been in the room, for I would have blown the discussion up, "Anthony, the reason you have a problem is that you expect someone to give you a handout. The AMF was a handout. You didn't respect it. You didn't meet your side of the contract. That compliance review is horrible. You don't merit another chance like that. And, if you got another arena, under a reasonable deal, it wouldn't change much. You only want the handout, not the location. That's the elephant in the room. Face up to that, or you will lose lots of $$ everywhere."

Anyway, the fact they are talking MAY lead to the Coyotes staying where they should be, in Glendale.

 

[Mightygoose]

Does any extension have to go through AEG anyways?

I sounds to me perhaps they're looking to see if there's any blood to get out of this stone one last time.

Looking through the Glendale part of the article

Representatives from the Coyotes and Glendale met Thursday to discuss the team’s future in Glendale for the first time in almost a year.

The Coyotes’ current lease allows them to play at Gila River Arena through the 2017-2018 season. Glendale City Manager Kevin Phelps has repeatedly acknowledged that the team is welcome to stay long-term. The Coyotes have been less warm to that idea

Am I making too much of the bolded word? It doesn't sound too committal on the Coyotes perspective.

Again, not really knowing the terms of the extension still not 100% convinced they're locked in - pending the bill fails. On this extension is the lease still with Glendale or are they under AEG?

 

[MNNumbers]

Does any extension have to go through AEG anyways?

I sounds to me perhaps they're looking to see if there's any blood to get out of this stone one last time.

Looking through the Glendale part of the article



Am I making too much of the bolded word? It doesn't sound too committal on the Coyotes perspective.

Again, not really knowing the terms of the extension still not 100% convinced they're locked in - pending the bill fails. On this extension is the lease still with Glendale or are they under AEG?

Their lease has to be contracted with Glendale, because it's city property, but Glendale has committed AEG to the actual negotiations.

The extension? Well, we don't know. We have read here that it is an automatic extension which happens for one year every Jan 1. And, that clause was negotiated last summer. It applies one year at a time, and extends the terms, which are:

80% of Naming Rights to Coyotes
Free Office Space
Free Practice Space
All game night revenues, including parking

Just what would be required to break it, I don't know. And, really, that's the question, because IA intends to break it at some point. Because it extends on Jan 1, I think that IA feels this way: We'll get our new arena. The winter before it's going to open, we will cancel the re-up with Glendale.

However, for an out-of-market relocation, there is no way to break that clause without the last 1/2 season being lame duck.


ETA: The clause in question and the extension in question actually REQUIRES them to play through the 17-18 season. It's a 2-way requirement. GRA is required to give them the space and ice, etc. Coyotes are required to play all home games there.

 

[Acesolid]

As a final note on the ''How should the book on the Coyotes Saga be written'' discussion:

I believe the best way to do it would be to superpose the off-ice business disaster that is happening simultaneously with the highs and lows on the ice. For example, the fact that the team was at one of it's lowest points off the ice (owned by the league and needing yearly 25 million $ checks from the City of Glendale) when on the ice they made their deepest playoff run ever. I remember the players being quite angry at the idiotic sight of seeing their ''owner'' hand the trophy to the other team. And the air of insecurity following the team.

I'd imagine the tone as being quite incredulous at the insanity that's happening. In the style of Bryan Alvarez's ''The Death of WCW''. (Great as an audiobook, by the way)

 

[Llama19]

Their lease has to be contracted with Glendale, because it's city property, but Glendale has committed AEG to the actual negotiations.

Correct per First Amendment to Professional Management Services and Arena Lease Agreement (PDF)

The extension? Well, we don't know. We have read here that it is an automatic extension which happens for one year every Jan 1. And, that clause was negotiated last summer. It applies one year at a time, and extends the terms, which are:

80% of Naming Rights to Coyotes
Free Office Space
Free Practice Space
All game night revenues, including parking

Just what would be required to break it, I don't know. And, really, that's the question, because IA intends to break it at some point. Because it extends on Jan 1, I think that IA feels this way: We'll get our new arena. The winter before it's going to open, we will cancel the re-up with Glendale.

However, for an out-of-market relocation, there is no way to break that clause without the last 1/2 season being lame duck.

ETA: The clause in question and the extension in question actually REQUIRES them to play through the 17-18 season. It's a 2-way requirement. GRA is required to give them the space and ice, etc. Coyotes are required to play all home games there.

Yes, correct again...if either party does not automatically pick up the Dec 31th renewal date...the party (in this case, IceArizona) can walk away...thus leaving that latter half of the season as their lame duck...

 

[GuelphStormer]

Their lease has to be contracted with Glendale, because it's city property, but Glendale has committed AEG to the actual negotiations.

The extension? Well, we don't know. We have read here that it is an automatic extension which happens for one year every Jan 1. And, that clause was negotiated last summer. It applies one year at a time, and extends the terms, which are:

80% of Naming Rights to Coyotes
Free Office Space
Free Practice Space
All game night revenues, including parking

Just what would be required to break it, I don't know. And, really, that's the question, because IA intends to break it at some point. Because it extends on Jan 1, I think that IA feels this way: We'll get our new arena. The winter before it's going to open, we will cancel the re-up with Glendale.

However, for an out-of-market relocation, there is no way to break that clause without the last 1/2 season being lame duck.


ETA: The clause in question and the extension in question actually REQUIRES them to play through the 17-18 season. It's a 2-way requirement. GRA is required to give them the space and ice, etc. Coyotes are required to play all home games there.

if the coyotes are relocated and leave now, before the 17-18 season, they would of course forfeit any game revenues and naming rights, but wouldnt they also owe a full year's rent? $500K?

that's an easy out.

 

[MNNumbers]

if the coyotes are relocated and leave now, before the 17-18 season, they would of course forfeit any game revenues and naming rights, but wouldnt they also owe a full year's rent? $500K?

that's an easy out.

Well, it's not that easy. There is no clause that addresses that, so if IA simply walked away in June with no negotiations, Glendale could take them to court. In court, they would argue damages. So, it would cost, on the surface, not only what you put down, but also the share of Naming Rights, plus whatever Glendale's lawyers could convince the court to give them.

Otherwise, the breakage would have to be negotiated. In that case, I would look for a non-compete clause which would not allow them back in the market in another arena, and I would look for IA to end up paying more than just what you wrote, but less than what they would pay if it went to court.

 

[Killion]

80% of Naming Rights to Coyotes
Free Office Space
Free Practice Space
All game night revenues, including parking

... pretty sweet huh?.... deserves to be bolded.... then just let it sink in just how generous that that actually is... beyond generous.... as I surely
hope the Legislators understand and that insidious Bill is well & truly D.O.A & we dont play witness to any attempted resurrections between now & March 23rd...

 

[DowntownBooster]

... pretty sweet huh?.... deserves to be bolded.... then just let it sink in just how generous that that actually is... beyond generous.... as I surely
hope the Legislators understand and that insidious Bill is well & truly D.O.A & we dont play witness to any attempted resurrections between now & March 23rd...

What's the significance of March 23rd?

 

[Killion]

What's the significance of March 23rd?

Thats the last day that anyone can put forward a Bill during this Legislative Session if Im not mistaken, then on April 2nd or 3rd they meet a final time & close er' down until next year.

 

[DowntownBooster]

Thats the last day that anyone can put forward a Bill during this Legislative Session if Im not mistaken, then on April 2nd or 3rd they meet a final time & close er' down until next year.

Thanks for clarifying that Killion.

 

[WildGopher]

Not to interrupt the process of good authorship (ahem), but I assume nothing significant happened today at the Leg? What's the status on that bill that mandates a web site where the common people can see what's happening to their money? It just passed the Senate yesterday I think? Is it on the House agenda at all?

The bill you mentioned passed the Senate by a voice vote yesterday. When it has a third reading, it will get a roll-call vote, then go to the House.

The Senate didn't meet today and hasn't posted a calendar of bills it will consider Monday.

 

[WildGopher]

<snip>

For my published weekly sports column.

That's gotta be worth something

EDIT: That is one ugly mug and it's not even the most embarrassing selfie I've posted to HF

Wait. So your real name isn't Tom Servo, etc.?? I thought everybody used their real names on these boards! OK, that helps explain some things.

Dankochik - is that from one of the famed Ukrainians to Manitoba migrations? I don't know if this is Ukrainian or Russian, but just north of the MN/MB border is the town of Tolstoi - closest thing to the looks of a town on the Russian-Ukrainian plains I've ever seen, not having been over there. Good writing in your article, and TFP's writing, too. Maybe a book on this saga will get written, after all!

 

[Llama19]

The bill you mentioned passed the Senate by a voice vote yesterday. When it has a third reading, it will get a roll-call vote, then go to the House.

The Senate didn't meet today and hasn't posted a calendar of bills it will consider Monday.

March 6 Senate calendar posted...one bill on it...and it is not SB1149...

So...just another fortnight more until there is no more COW sessions for the Senate...

 

[snowmobile]

Wait. So your real name isn't Tom Servo, etc.?? I thought everybody used their real names on these boards! OK, that helps explain some things.

Dankochik - is that from one of the famed Ukrainians to Manitoba migrations? I don't know if this is Ukrainian or Russian, but just north of the MN/MB border is the town of Tolstoi - closest thing to the looks of a town on the Russian-Ukrainian plains I've ever seen, not having been over there. Good writing in your article, and TFP's writing, too. Maybe a book on this saga will get written, after all!

Elsie's bar in Tolstoi was the last male only bar in manitoba when they finally decided to allow women

 

[WildGopher]

Elsie's bar in Tolstoi was the last male only bar in manitoba when they finally decided to allow women

Would Tolsoi build LeBlanc an arena? Because it's only about an hour and a half flight in a Cessna from his home in Thunder Bay. Dude might be needing a landing spot sometime soon!

 

[madhi19]

Thats the last day that anyone can put forward a Bill during this Legislative Session if Im not mistaken, then on April 2nd or 3rd they meet a final time & close er' down until next year.

Wait this is the ONLY legislative session of the YEAR? Wow, nice gig.