Phoenix CXXIII: Who Wants to Pay Our Bills?

[cbcwpg]

Since there are 365 dates available during the year to host events in the Toyota Center, maybe it's something Alexander would consider. I'm sure an NHL franchise would generate a lot more income for the building than an AHL franchise ever could.

More income for the building, yes, because they ( Toyota Center ) could charge more rent to an NHL team than an AHL team. But that brings us back to the viability of a team in a renters scenario.

The economics of the NHL these days, where it costs in the ~$90 million to ~$120 million per season to run a team, is that unless the team has access to all the revenue streams for their games ( as a minimum ) then the team will not be viable. And even in a lot of cases they need access to more revenue streams than just their games. Add to that an arrangement where they are paying enough rent to the building owner so the building owner turns a profit, then it's even worse.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

You have to remember that the NHL does not like to relocate franchises and makes every effort to find local ownership to keep teams in their current markets. Alexander may have not have shown an interest before due to the NHL's policy regarding relocation and may not have wanted to pay $ 500 million for an expansion team like Las Vegas did. However, if IA were to move the team into the Toyota Center, it could change his feelings about pursuing an ownership in the team. Even as a rental, those are guaranteed dates that he would not have to worry about trying to fill by attracting other events. Houston is also a much larger TV market than Phoenix which would also be another bonus for the NHL.

false, Houston is not an option then by the evidence of MSE/Aeros (which was a lease option by Alexander), Downtown, nor is it an option now, IA has and is continuing to keep the franchise in Arizona, there's no movement anywhere outside of Arizona, whether it's GRA/Glendale, the failed Tempe/ASU interlude, and it won't be Phoenix Metro as long as the Suns stand in the way there just as they did the 1st 7 years of the relocation from Winnipeg.

 

[WildGopher]

Kern's presser never happened?

Funny, I can't find anything about it, including anything that it was cancelled. But it was announced in a press release by the House GOP caucus yesterday, and no announcement of cancellation this time, so it probably did happen.

The House GOP also had this press release declaring yesterday as Canada Friendship Day, noting 150 years of friendship, commerce between Canada and Arizona, etc. Kind of ironic, because Canadians wintering in the Valley, or visiting those wintering there probably make up a big disproportionate share of attendees at Coyotes' games, and it looks like that might be lost now. Nice to see the sentiment of friendship, though.

http://www.azleg.gov/press/house/53LEG/1R/02282017CANADADAY.pdf

 

[GuelphStormer]

I disagree. One of the reasons why the NHL has been so patient in Arizona is because they have found ways to ensure thy wont take a major loss. The team was bought by the league in bankruptcy for 140 million I believe. Even if you are correct and someone like Allen gives a low ball offer of 300 million (I think this team will get 400 million in a market like Seattle or Quebec) that is still 160 million above what they paid. They also received 50 million from Glendale to cover losses for 2 seasons. They also received their share of the expansion fee of 15+ million. They have also been receiving addition 15 million a year subsidies from Glendale the last few years. All of that is more than enough to cover all of the losses the league and IA have accumulated over the years if the team is sold out of market.

What doesnt make any sense to me is going into additional debt building a new arena in Arizona instead of flipping this franchise to another market for 300-400 million and wiping away all the debt this team has.

I would not presume that at all. Indeed, I would presume that even with these "revenues", this franchise has still consistently lost upwards of $20M to $30M each year since 2009 when the league took over. My guess is that there is close to zero equity in the franchise. Most importantly, IA has been surviving on credit since 2013.

As it sits, the franchise has less than zero value in the greater Phoenix area. As a relocation candidate, any value that might exist is surely to be claimed by the BoG, not IA. Surely, struggling franchise owners would argue in their own favour, rather than allowing the babysitters who ran the team into the ground to make a dime. Despite popular belief, this has never been a portable asset to anyone other than the league itself.

Bottom line, by any objective standard, the clowns have done a horrendous job of managing this franchise.

 

[objectiveposter]

Do you believe the NHl and IA would make a profit if they were to sell the team today to Paul Allen for $300MM? I don`t for one minute!

Lets do some math. NHL bought the team in 2009 for 140 million. Its been roughly 8 seasons. Lets assume, without any subsidies, this team has lost on average 25 million a year (rather high estimate especially for recent years considering the league signed new tv deals, increased revenue sharing and new CBA while running the team on a shoe string budget). So that is 200 million in losses. Add in interest and legal fees lets make it 230 million in total losses. (Its probably much lower in reality). Subtract 50 million from Glendale. Down to 180 million. Subtract 15 million from expansion money. Down to 165 million. Subtract the 15 million arena management fee the last few years and now the net losses are 135 million. Hell, lets add another 15 million in other losses I might have missed and make it 150 million in overall net loss since 2009.
Now, if the team is sold for 300 million that means the league/ IA will likely be close to break even. (300 - 140 - 150). If the team is sold for 400 million believe it or not the league/IA will actually make money from this debacle. Hence why everyone has been so patient over the years.

 

[mesamonster]

false, Houston is not an option then by the evidence of MSE/Aeros (which was a lease option by Alexander), Downtown, nor is it an option now, IA has and is continuing to keep the franchise in Arizona, there's no movement anywhere outside of Arizona, whether it's GRA/Glendale, the failed Tempe/ASU interlude, and it won't be Phoenix Metro as long as the Suns stand in the way there just as they did the 1st 7 years of the relocation from Winnipeg.

Hutch, if IA keeps the franchise in Az. per your scenario, do you believe IA will want to continue to lose money as Tony has suggested they will? Or, are you of the belief that they will stay in Az. and the NHL will continue to fund their losses? Either way, losing money every year, regardless of who is paying the bills is not a sustainable business model. A loss leader for the benefit of the nhl? I doubt that is what GB has in mind. How does having a losing franchise in Arizona benefit the rest of the league? Particularly when local media views are practically non-existent.

 

[mesamonster]

Lets do some math. NHL bought the team in 2009 for 140 million. Its been roughly 8 seasons. Lets assume, without any subsidies, this team has lost on average 25 million a year (rather high estimate especially for recent years considering the league signed new tv deals, increased revenue sharing and new CBA while running the team on a shoe string budget). So that is 200 million in losses. Add in interest and legal fees lets make it 230 million in total losses. (Its probably much lower in reality). Subtract 50 million from Glendale. Down to 180 million. Subtract 15 million from expansion money. Down to 165 million. Subtract the 15 million arena management fee the last few years and now the net losses are 135 million. Hell, lets add another 15 million in other losses I might have missed and make it 150 million in overall net loss since 2009.
Now, if the team is sold for 300 million that means the league/ IA will likely be close to break even. (300 - 140 - 150). If the team is sold for 400 million believe it or not the league/IA will actually make money from this debacle. Hence why everyone has been so patient over the years.

Nobody knows the real numbers, but it leads me to ask the question, why would anyone buy this team for $300-400MM plus the possible cost of an arena to lose that much money in operating it? Might I also add that the $15MM AMF was not all added to the revenue side they had to pay for the cost of managing the arena. But I digress, the present management has had large losses despite paying some of the lowest payroll costs in the league! What did that get them? five years out of the playoff picture. a new owner would have to capitalize the purchase price, pay for a part or all of an arena and then absorb the costs of running this team, likely without the league goody bag that they have been giving IA these past few years!

 

[PCSPounder]

What doesnt make any sense to me is going into additional debt building a new arena in Arizona instead of flipping this franchise to another market for 300-400 million and wiping away all the debt this team has.

The whole Tempe plan, from what I was seeing, was to say they'd cover part of the arena cost and then either find workarounds to reduce the cost OR otherwise find ways to weasel out of paying large portions of the promise. Obviously speculation based on the major league screw-the-mid-major-market playbook, but I thought I saw a couple hints that this would be the case.

In the meantime, keep this in mind: the Coyotes are still here because, as long as the NHL says they stay in the west, Arizona is where politicians are weak and perhaps willing. I'm not discarding any bills until sine die (speaking of other tactics from the screw-the-mid-major-market playbook).

 

[objectiveposter]

Nobody knows the real numbers, but it leads me to ask the question, why would anyone buy this team for $300-400MM plus the possible cost of an arena to lose that much money in operating it? Might I also add that the $15MM AMF was not all added to the revenue side they had to pay for the cost of managing the arena. But I digress, the present management has had large losses despite paying some of the lowest payroll costs in the league! What did that get them? five years out of the playoff picture. a new owner would have to capitalize the purchase price, pay for a part or all of an arena and then absorb the costs of running this team, likely without the league goody bag that they have been giving IA these past few years!

I agree that this team has been a disaster in Arizona and will likely continue to bleed money. I just think that because the league/IA bought the franchise at the right time (140 mill, 170 mill) combined with taking advantage of Glendale, that if the team is sold out of market for 400 million the league will likely turn a decent profit. (Break even at 300 million) Its the reason why this gong show has been allowed to continue over the years. Remember, if Glendale hadnt forked over the 25 million this team would be in Winnipeg right now. The other owners will not allow Bettman to take a huge financial loss on the Coyotes.

 

[objectiveposter]

The whole Tempe plan, from what I was seeing, was to say they'd cover part of the arena cost and then either find workarounds to reduce the cost OR otherwise find ways to weasel out of paying large portions of the promise. Obviously speculation based on the major league screw-the-mid-major-market playbook, but I thought I saw a couple hints that this would be the case.

In the meantime, keep this in mind: the Coyotes are still here because, as long as the NHL says they stay in the west, Arizona is where politicians are weak and perhaps willing. I'm not discarding any bills until sine die (speaking of other tactics from the screw-the-mid-major-market playbook).

Keep in mind next season will be the first where the Coyotes wont be receiving any sort of subsidy to help lower the losses. No more arena management fees and no more expansion money. The well is officially dry. If the bill dies I think the NHL will finally pull the plug on the franchise since IA has no means to keep losses to a minimum next season.

 

[MNNumbers]

I think the losses are slightly more than that, objective.

IA claimed in public about 35M, the first year, and there was a 15M contract buyout in there. So, bottom line, 20M/yr, with the subsidy.

I am of the opinion that the 50M shakedown of Glendale was to cover losses, so count those years break even. If that is correct, then you have 50M in losses before the Thrashers moved. 35M in year one of IA. Eliminate the buyout loss, it's 20M year two. Five extra in year three because of the difference in AMF, so 25. 30+ this year.
I get a break even at about 325M, and it's not worth quibbling over that. Add some debt service to it also, & it's 350. That's still in your ball park, especially since I missed the expansion fees.

But it's likely adding 25-30 a year, and Portland won't cover that.

Best financial move is to sell to Quebec now. But they don't want to. So, another 25 or so more next year... And getting worse because they have destroyed the local market..... That's the piece that really ties it up. After this ASU/bill fiasco, next year is likely to bring in even LESS money, because the fans are sick of it. Which again says that they should sell this summer....

 

[WildGopher]

Kern's presser never happened?

Still don't see any news about Rep. Kern's press conference. Craig Harris tweeted news from the last one he held, but not today. Maybe it's not considered as big of news now that it looks like the bill's passage isn't as likely. I did find this press release from last Thursday from Rep. Kern about the arena bill that we missed. It calls on citizens to call their Senators to ask them to vote to defeat the bill:

http://www.azleg.gov/press/house/53LEG/1R/170223KERNCOYOTESUPDATE.pdf

 

[DowntownBooster]

false, Houston is not an option then by the evidence of MSE/Aeros (which was a lease option by Alexander), Downtown, nor is it an option now, IA has and is continuing to keep the franchise in Arizona, there's no movement anywhere outside of Arizona, whether it's GRA/Glendale, the failed Tempe/ASU interlude, and it won't be Phoenix Metro as long as the Suns stand in the way there just as they did the 1st 7 years of the relocation from Winnipeg.

I would like to see the team stay in Arizona if it's possible. Only if it's determined that it isn't viable for the Coyotes to stay where they are and IA chooses to relocate them, then I would like to see Houston as a landing spot. I know there's the various issues as pointed out regarding lack of interest by Les Alexander, etc. but it would be nice to see Houston get a chance at the NHL.

 

[YoungGuns]

I would like to see the team stay in Arizona if it's possible. Only if it's determined that it isn't viable for the Coyotes to stay where they are and IA chooses to relocate them, then I would like to see Houston as a landing spot. I know there's the various issues as pointed out regarding lack of interest by Les Alexander, etc. but it would be nice to see Houston get a chance at the NHL.

Those issues make it pretty much a non starter. Won't be NHL hockey in Houston anytime soon. Dude doesn't care for hockey and is more than happy with the Rockets being the lone tenant.

 

[Melrose Munch]

But Phoenix can still be a 4 team city even if the Coyotes leave.

There is an MLS expansion bid for Phoenix and if the Yotes leave, the market becomes allot more attractive.

I wouldn't underestimate the growth potential here. It's a much younger demographic which other leagues crave, plus with MLS being a younger league, you won't have transplants with as strong loyalties to their old market.

There are some markets I believe MLS will outpace the NHL. Phoenix is one of them.

uh, MLS isn't that gung-ho on Arizona, who owns or is preparing that proposal, MG, AND any other franchise in another sport doesn't have any impact on the existing franchise...

The MLS is not part of the big 4. At least not yet. It may be if the NHL continues its non management of problems and lack of support for new markets.

The Valley already has a presence of NFL, the biggest of the big leagues.
They have the presence of MLB, the second biggest of the big leagues.
They also have the presence of NBA, the last of the big leagues.
They currently have a presence of NHL, a wanna-be big league.

I don't think there would be many people downgrading the Valley reputation based on NHL presence.

... this MM. I dont share this opinion that American Cities or regions measure themselves in importance based on having all 4 top tier leagues present & accounted for. I have a higher opinion of Americans and what they consider important to their cities, namely quality of life & living, opportunity, housing & education. Top tier sports & sporting facilities are a luxury & if any given city is missing one of the pieces to them it's just not that big of a deal, certainly not one whereby they should be allocating funds from general revenues & or increase taxes (though obviously many have & still do) to subsidize what are private interests & businesses at the expense of essential services like policing & fire & other priorities that in many cases are the difference between life & death for their citizens. Arizona already chock-a-block full of options, hosting events & teams that many cities/regions envy.... So, at what price, these delusions of grandeur, hosting all 4 major leagues?... Glendale a classic example, not long ago they were having to seriously consider selling City Hall & other municipal buildings in a Lease-Back scheme, selling off artworks & privatizing essential services, cutting back on new hires in policing & fire (and those guys wages frozen for years) while dropping $50M into the NHL's pocket over 24 months then agreeing to a $225M Mgmnt Contract for GRA, awarded to a crew of rookie neophytes who still dont have a clue, the richest on the planet btw and so on & so on & so forth. And what did they receive for their generosity & largess? Punkass Junkyard Dogs that bit the hand that fed them & continue to bark that its all Glendales fault, now sniffing around the State looking for handouts, free accommodations, free meals for life.... And there is a place where you can get that. Its called Prison. And thats where these idiots belong actually. Extortion, theft, fraud.... Its just not worth it. They already have an arena, state of the art, great Lease deal. Cant cut it? See ya. The depth's, myriad of problems facing the State of Arizona & these guys want them to keep digging? Gimme a break.

Fair enough. To many this will push them Phoenix down to a notch. Unfair but it is what it is. Also fair or not shows Phoenix to be a bad sports town in general.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Maybe Alexander didn't apply because expansion was 500 million? Maybe because the NHL jipped in twice?

 

[aqib]

The MLS is not part of the big 4. At least not yet. It may be if the NHL continues its non management of problems and lack of support for new markets.



Fair enough. To many this will push them Phoenix down to a notch. Unfair but it is what it is. Also fair or not shows Phoenix to be a bad sports town in general.

The problem with the MLS is that its clearly a second tier league in the soccer universe while the other 4 are the #1 leagues globally in their respective sports. That being said, the demographics favor the MLS over NHL in some markets. Hockey is not going to be appreciated by everyone and thats fine.

As far as Phoenix being a sports town, from what I've seen from afar it supports the Suns pretty well and the Cardinals since Bill Bidwell stepped aside, so at the very least its not bad. It may just not be a hockey town.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

It may just not be a hockey town.

I think it could BECOME a hockey town if we could just have one sustained run of not sucking.

I don't want anyone to discount just how heavily the team being terrible has weighed on all of this mind-numbing saga. Not even in 2011-2012 were the Coyotes any better than a wildcard team, and three or four better-than-average seasons in twenty freaking years is no way to build any sort of franchise stability.

No matter what happened with the Wirtzes, Chicago owes its current thriving status to Patrick Kane, Jonathan Toews, and a team that became good for consecutive seasons. Likewise, Pittsburgh is comfortably one of the top teams in the league now, but before Sidney and Mario they were nearly relocated and were teetering on extinction.

The conditions no longer exist for the Coyotes to be good enough for long enough to dig themselves out of this terrible hole. We have Max Domi, who could end up as one of those magnetic star players in the league with the right circumstances, but outside of that our cupboard is bare in the near future. By the time we luck into a guy of McDavid's or Matthews' caliber, the team is likely going to be long gone to another market.

That is the biggest tragedy to me, because even though I know a great many of the posters on HF believe that Phoenix would never work for hockey, I know that it could have worked if we had just had some sort of ignition. Every time we had a sniff of it, though, something put out the sparks. In the early 2000s, the team moved to Glendale and lost all its most magnetic players. Gretzky's star power couldn't hide his gross deficiencies in virtually every other facet of his role. The bankruptcy put us on the brink, and although we made the playoffs for a couple of years straight, the way we did it made it look like we got there despite ourselves. I dare anyone to find anything in the hockey archives listing the Coyotes as a contender in ANY year after 2003.

It's just all waste. Waste by the owners. Waste by the general managers. Waste of opportunities. Wasted money. It's so painful for me as a fan because it's not like there wasn't opportunity... but Arizona will end up as a cautionary tale for wasted opportunity.

 

[Mightygoose]

Munn: Coyotes Arena Issue? Blame the NHL

http://www.sports360az.com/2017/03/arizona-coyotes-arena/

Not much to disagree here. May have put too much emphasis on the obstructed seats downtown but assumptions put them behind the eight ball and then knee-jerk reaction after another on so many parties.

 

[WildGopher]

I would like to see the team stay in Arizona if it's possible . . .

I think there's a lot of empathy here for hockey fans everywhere, and for not moving franchises generally, unless absolutely necessary. But I've seen signs this year that the mood is darker than ever within the Coyotes' organization, and that we are nearing end times.

The trade of Martin Hanzal and Ryan White just reinforced what others have said. In interviews since the trade, they both sounded a bit in shock at being shipped, as most traded players are. You can tell they genuinely are going to miss their teammates on the Coyotes, as players form those bonds when they go to war together in game after game - win or lose.

But once you get past those two things in the interview, it's like Hanzal and White have been freed from behind the Iron Curtain. It wasn't just the endless losses in AZ that was so debilitating to morale, but no hope that it would ever change or that the franchise would put some money into acquiring or developing the players needed to be competitive. Earlier in the year, goalie Mike Smith burst out with similar frustration after a very tough overtime loss during that long winless streak, and I mentioned Shane Doan's odd, emotional interview about the situation when Hanzal was traded.

Up and down the organization, you have these very dark sentiments that rarely get out of the locker room or corporate offices. Years ago, I emailed the Coyotes to take me off their email lists when I thought they'd done something unethical. I used to bring family or work associates to Yotes games when I was down there to visit, but told them I wouldn't be doing that any more. Well, to their credit, they had a ticket sales guy call me. He just sounded frustrated by everything - I know it's always been hard to sell tickets there, and then his corporation does something that makes his job even harder to sell.

Everything that could go wrong, has with that organization. Sad, but it's just got to be a huge downer to be any part of that, whether on the ice, in hockey operations, or in corporate support. Then they burn their bridges with their own arena and find out no one will build them a new one for free! It just seems like it can't survive.

 

[mesamonster]

I think it could BECOME a hockey town if we could just have one sustained run of not sucking.

I don't want anyone to discount just how heavily the team being terrible has weighed on all of this mind-numbing saga. Not even in 2011-2012 were the Coyotes any better than a wildcard team, and three or four better-than-average seasons in twenty freaking years is no way to build any sort of franchise stability.

No matter what happened with the Wirtzes, Chicago owes its current thriving status to Patrick Kane, Jonathan Toews, and a team that became good for consecutive seasons. Likewise, Pittsburgh is comfortably one of the top teams in the league now, but before Sidney and Mario they were nearly relocated and were teetering on extinction.

The conditions no longer exist for the Coyotes to be good enough for long enough to dig themselves out of this terrible hole. We have Max Domi, who could end up as one of those magnetic star players in the league with the right circumstances, but outside of that our cupboard is bare in the near future. By the time we luck into a guy of McDavid's or Matthews' caliber, the team is likely going to be long gone to another market.

That is the biggest tragedy to me, because even though I know a great many of the posters on HF believe that Phoenix would never work for hockey, I know that it could have worked if we had just had some sort of ignition. Every time we had a sniff of it, though, something put out the sparks. In the early 2000s, the team moved to Glendale and lost all its most magnetic players. Gretzky's star power couldn't hide his gross deficiencies in virtually every other facet of his role. The bankruptcy put us on the brink, and although we made the playoffs for a couple of years straight, the way we did it made it look like we got there despite ourselves. I dare anyone to find anything in the hockey archives listing the Coyotes as a contender in ANY year after 2003.

It's just all waste. Waste by the owners. Waste by the general managers. Waste of opportunities. Wasted money. It's so painful for me as a fan because it's not like there wasn't opportunity... but Arizona will end up as a cautionary tale for wasted opportunity.

Feckless, I realize this a controversial topic, however, i firmly believe that part of the present on ice malaise has to do with ownership and their inability to pay for talent. The case has been made time and again that money does not guarantee wins, I get that. But, when was the last time a team at the bottom of the salary structure won a cup? The Fa`s know that IA is money strapped and the franchise is tenuous so why go? Both symptoms are partly the result of having this present group of incompetent and cash strapped ownership group. Also, the history of the franchise has always seemed to follow them like a dark shadow. Today`s on ice ineptness has many origins, but money and better GM smarts would have helped.

 

[GuelphStormer]

I would like to see the team stay in Arizona if it's possible.

i do not believe the NHL wants that. at least not anymore.

if the NHL was at all serious about this market, they never would have allowed leblanc and his buddies take over. surely reinsdorf and jamieson were much more realistic and potentially successful suitors. we'll never know what went down in all of that mess between 2009 and 2013, but at best, the NHL selected Ren/IA to babysit while hansen or allen built an arena. that the team has lasted there this long is due only to the generosity/stupidity of the city of glendale.

to be honest, jerry moyes would have done a better job than these guys. indeed, all he wanted was what? $6M/year subsidy?

i still maintain, this team will be moved this year. where it gets shoved is the league's biggest problem now.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Today`s on ice ineptness has many origins, but money and better GM smarts would have helped.

Inarguably. The teams that earned fans when they played downtown were built in a far less parsimonious fashion than today's teams. Roenick, Tkachuk, Numminen, etc. were not on the low end of the pay scale, for sure. Gretzky probably had budget but he blew it on Brett Hull and Mike Ricci after they had blown through their usefulness. Since the bankruptcy, there hasn't been a budget for much of anything, which is why the playoff runs up to 2012 were such flukes.

The Coyotes have a smart GM now but they don't have the money. Hanzal got moved in part because resigning him would cost too much given the context of his production and health history. I'm sure Tippett wanted to sign an extension, but no way in hell the ownership was going to release those kinds of dollars for what they see as a spurious asset for a rebuild.

Drummond said they had the money to sign guys like Goligoski. What he didn't say is that in order to do that they had to play games with the actual dollars spent and the guys surrounding Goligoski in order to make it work. It's all part of the big shell game IceArizona is playing.

Wasted opportunities.

 

[mesamonster]

Inarguably. The teams that earned fans when they played downtown were built in a far less parsimonious fashion than today's teams. Roenick, Tkachuk, Numminen, etc. were not on the low end of the pay scale, for sure. Gretzky probably had budget but he blew it on Brett Hull and Mike Ricci after they had blown through their usefulness. Since the bankruptcy, there hasn't been a budget for much of anything, which is why the playoff runs up to 2012 were such flukes.

The Coyotes have a smart GM now but they don't have the money. Hanzal got moved in part because resigning him would cost too much given the context of his production and health history. I'm sure Tippett wanted to sign an extension, but no way in hell the ownership was going to release those kinds of dollars for what they see as a spurious asset for a rebuild.

Drummond said they had the money to sign guys like Goligoski. What he didn't say is that in order to do that they had to play games with the actual dollars spent and the guys surrounding Goligoski in order to make it work. It's all part of the big shell game IceArizona is playing.

Wasted opportunities.

The GM vastly over payed for Goligoski, a good PP player on a good team! But in this organization he is being asked to do things that are beyond his kill set, namely play defense. The money paid for an offensive d-man who has 2 goals was a waste of the scarce dollars the team had. AG, was the only quality FA willing to come, the rest stayed clear because of the precarious position this franchise is in. Interesting to hear the comments from Hanzal and White after experiencing what real crowds are like in Minnesota. Another strike against the Coyotes and the reason they will likely never be relevant.

 

[cutchemist42]

I agree that this team has been a disaster in Arizona and will likely continue to bleed money. I just think that because the league/IA bought the franchise at the right time (140 mill, 170 mill) combined with taking advantage of Glendale, that if the team is sold out of market for 400 million the league will likely turn a decent profit. (Break even at 300 million) Its the reason why this gong show has been allowed to continue over the years. Remember, if Glendale hadnt forked over the 25 million this team would be in Winnipeg right now. The other owners will not allow Bettman to take a huge financial loss on the Coyotes.

I hate knowing that after all this the NHL will come out not taking a hit...