Phoenix CXXIII: Who Wants to Pay Our Bills?

[The Feckless Puck]

Now, this may end up a slap in the face, and if Coyotes fans hate it, my bad. Just an idle thought for how hockey fans in greater Phoenix can keep their team without having to go through this rigamarole year after year.

I like the compromise of your idea, but here's the thing - I know this market and nobody's going to want to see the AHL Arizona Coyotes. Better if the minor-league team stays in Tucson or gets moved elsewhere.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - my envy for Las Vegas could not be any higher right now. Their NHL franchise may face similar challenges to the Coyotes in some respects, but they are getting a MASSIVE gift of building their franchise from the ground up at home.

The Coyotes have had a slow-acting poison in their veins from the first moment they arrived in Phoenix. The franchise's history is inescapable, and it looms over everything.

If I thought there was a chance in hell that the NHL would ever even CONSIDER Phoenix as a franchise destination once the Coyotes relocate, I would wish them bon voyage happily and hope I'd still be alive when the new team got built. But it's not going to happen. As burned as the bridges are between IA and Glendale, they will be twice as burned between the NHL and this state.

Auston Matthews may be the first NHL superstar from Arizona, but he may also be the last.

I wouldn't underestimate the growth potential here. It's a much younger demographic which other leagues crave, plus with MLS being a younger league, you won't have transplants with as strong loyalties to their old market.

I think Phoenix would be a great place for pro soccer. But the success of a potential MLS expansion here is really contingent on whether the extremely strong grassroots soccer community gets behind the new team, as well as whether the ownership group behind the team has any sort of prowess. I have high hopes.

I don't think there would be many people downgrading the Valley reputation based on NHL presence.

You would be correct, because the sad fact of the matter is that the vast majority of sports fans in the Phoenix metro area only care about the NHL in the abstract. Tons of hockey fans on the East Side? Sure! But if the Coyotes move, their NHL consumption habits will likely not change one whit because they have Gamecenter to follow the Blackhawks, Red Wings, and Sabres.

My personal opinion is that the Coyotes are disposable to Phoenix, if you really dig deep into the mass sentiment. They're already a team of carpetbaggers who have spent twenty years like itinerant nomads, city-hopping in order to get the best public money deal. The only thing they have built over their history here has been animosity with taxpayers and distrust among the fanbase because of their abject awfulness on the ice.

If we had the chance to build an expansion team here, I would personally help the Coyotes pack for QC or wherever. Failing that, I think there will be more relief than anguish if the Coyotes relocate - whatever they brought as sports entertainment, they have squandered by being a political and financial nightmare.

 

[Killion]

Having 4 teams is a big dead, signifies your importance as a city in America. Only about 13 cities have this status, and Seattle is trying to get it.

The Valley already has a presence of NFL, the biggest of the big leagues.
They have the presence of MLB, the second biggest of the big leagues.
They also have the presence of NBA, the last of the big leagues.
They currently have a presence of NHL, a wanna-be big league.

I don't think there would be many people downgrading the Valley reputation based on NHL presence.

... this MM. I dont share this opinion that American Cities or regions measure themselves in importance based on having all 4 top tier leagues present & accounted for. I have a higher opinion of Americans and what they consider important to their cities, namely quality of life & living, opportunity, housing & education. Top tier sports & sporting facilities are a luxury & if any given city is missing one of the pieces to them it's just not that big of a deal, certainly not one whereby they should be allocating funds from general revenues & or increase taxes (though obviously many have & still do) to subsidize what are private interests & businesses at the expense of essential services like policing & fire & other priorities that in many cases are the difference between life & death for their citizens. Arizona already chock-a-block full of options, hosting events & teams that many cities/regions envy.... So, at what price, these delusions of grandeur, hosting all 4 major leagues?... Glendale a classic example, not long ago they were having to seriously consider selling City Hall & other municipal buildings in a Lease-Back scheme, selling off artworks & privatizing essential services, cutting back on new hires in policing & fire (and those guys wages frozen for years) while dropping $50M into the NHL's pocket over 24 months then agreeing to a $225M Mgmnt Contract for GRA, awarded to a crew of rookie neophytes who still dont have a clue, the richest on the planet btw and so on & so on & so forth. And what did they receive for their generosity & largess? Punkass Junkyard Dogs that bit the hand that fed them & continue to bark that its all Glendales fault, now sniffing around the State looking for handouts, free accommodations, free meals for life.... And there is a place where you can get that. Its called Prison. And thats where these idiots belong actually. Extortion, theft, fraud.... Its just not worth it. They already have an arena, state of the art, great Lease deal. Cant cut it? See ya. The depth's, myriad of problems facing the State of Arizona & these guys want them to keep digging? Gimme a break.

 

[WildGopher]

I like the compromise of your idea, but here's the thing - I know this market and nobody's going to want to see the AHL Arizona Coyotes. Better if the minor-league team stays in Tucson or gets moved elsewhere.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - my envy for Las Vegas could not be any higher right now. Their NHL franchise may face similar challenges to the Coyotes in some respects, but they are getting a MASSIVE gift of building their franchise from the ground up at home.

The Coyotes have had a slow-acting poison in their veins from the first moment they arrived in Phoenix. The franchise's history is inescapable, and it looms over everything.

If I thought there was a chance in hell that the NHL would ever even CONSIDER Phoenix as a franchise destination once the Coyotes relocate, I would wish them bon voyage happily and hope I'd still be alive when the new team got built. But it's not going to happen. As burned as the bridges are between IA and Glendale, they will be twice as burned between the NHL and this state.

Auston Matthews may be the first NHL superstar from Arizona, but he may also be the last.



I think Phoenix would be a great place for pro soccer. But the success of a potential MLS expansion here is really contingent on whether the extremely strong grassroots soccer community gets behind the new team, as well as whether the ownership group behind the team has any sort of prowess. I have high hopes.



You would be correct, because the sad fact of the matter is that the vast majority of sports fans in the Phoenix metro area only care about the NHL in the abstract. Tons of hockey fans on the East Side? Sure! But if the Coyotes move, their NHL consumption habits will likely not change one whit because they have Gamecenter to follow the Blackhawks, Red Wings, and Sabres.

My personal opinion is that the Coyotes are disposable to Phoenix, if you really dig deep into the mass sentiment. They're already a team of carpetbaggers who have spent twenty years like itinerant nomads, city-hopping in order to get the best public money deal. The only thing they have built over their history here has been animosity with taxpayers and distrust among the fanbase because of their abject awfulness on the ice.

If we had the chance to build an expansion team here, I would personally help the Coyotes pack for QC or wherever. Failing that, I think there will be more relief than anguish if the Coyotes relocate - whatever they brought as sports entertainment, they have squandered by being a political and financial nightmare.

That all sounds like a realistic, and classy, analysis, given that it's got to be real disappointing for any fan to have a problem franchise like that foisted on your city. The team was rushed into Phoenix without adequate preparation, squeezed into an arena situation that couldn't work long-term.

Your analysis about how an expansion franchise might have been better looks spot-on when you compare it to what happened in the Twin Cities. The Jets/Coyotes almost got shoehorned into a basketball arena there, too, and I don't think that would have worked so well. As you suggest might have happened with an expansion franchise in the Valley, the Twin Cities were far better off in the long run to have to wait a few years and then get to build from scratch. The new franchise built a deep local identity that would have been harder to do if it had inherited another franchise's history and whatever problems it had that made it move in the first place.

It was unfair of the NHL to Arizona's fans to drop the franchise there on a wing and a prayer without the groundwork being properly laid, or without extraordinary help from the league to give this thing a realistic chance to work. Thing is, instead of recognizing its obligation to those fans and its local partners, the NHL instead doubled down, ripping off local taxpayers again and again, and losing whatever goodwill they should have been trying to build from day 1. Like I've said, this whole fiasco will one day make a great business school case study for ways not to market, not to finance, and not to do strategic planning for a sports franchise, or for any business in the entertainment industry. Sad story, but I hope at least some people (including local governments) learn from it some things not to do when getting into the major league sports racket.

 

[MNNumbers]

And, the discussion of a hurried entrance into the market is what I fear for Seattle. That's a different thread, but new markets do much better when they get the Vegas treatment.

A relocation goes better to Winnipeg, or Quebec.

And, by the way, I did think Minnesota would have been on board fan wise had the Jets come here. The building would have been the problem.

 

[Killion]

And, by the way, I did think Minnesota would have been on board fan wise had the Jets come here. The building would have been the problem.

Yeah, different situation in Minnesota though. Market weaned on hockey, avid, willing to put up with & embrace the foibles of an "odd" arena configuration until such time as that got straightened out. Again though you had insecure non-local rookie owners in Burke & Gluckstern who like IA "came with" an overarching sense of entitlement, demands that even a hockey mad market like Minnesota couldnt and wouldnt stomach. You guys dodged a bullet.

 

[WildGopher]

And, the discussion of a hurried entrance into the market is what I fear for Seattle. That's a different thread, but new markets with better when they get the Vegas treatment.

Yeah, that's a good point. A short-notice move to Seattle, with a terrible arena situation at first - sounds like another lost opportunity, or maybe even disaster, waiting to happen.

If done right, Seattle should work great - it's not an area with the deepest of hockey involvement, but it's got plenty going for it - proximity to a lot of great fans just to the north, some natural rivalries with other west coast teams, a proven junior hockey fanbase, and a history of major league hockey (and even a Cup in 1917!), that however distant, gives some instant cred to the whole idea of the return of the Metropolitans, or whatever they'd be called. But you're right, to do relo as a fire drill, trying to scramble this spring and summer to set up all the sales, marketing, arena upgrades, advertising to introduce even the idea of major league hockey to new fans, etc. that successful transplant markets (e.g. Winnipeg) already had up and ready to go with their AHL franchise, could lead to more headaches than the NHL should even think about trying right now. In that time frame, it just couldn't be ready enough to have a top-notch major league feel to it. Give Seattle adequate time to organize, and it would be a great market for hockey. But do what FP says above that the NHL did to Phoenix, and you might buying a lot of those problems all over again.

It looks to me like the only market ready to roll if the NHL decides it has to move this summer is Quebec. Maybe Portland could do it, but with the recent price for the Vegas franchise, I don't think Arizona will be offered for anything close to what Allen would be willing to pay.

 

[MNNumbers]

Again concerning Seattle. To me, that's a very dicey situation. Here's why....

A hurried relocation before the arena situation there is set in stone will be disaster ANY TIME, not just this year.

Now, assume the SODO project starts. You move the Yotes next year, and try 2 years in Key. Once SODO is in building, you run a huge risk of NBA coming and stealing all your marketing buzz.

I'm a little risk-averse. But, I wouldn't put my $$ in that situation. I'm convinced Seattle only works for NHL if the team controls the building, and NBA rents from them.

Likewise, Portland is a no go.

I laugh at Bettman every time I think this through. He and BOG are boxing themselves in tighter all the time. Losses every year to stay in AZ, and no good place to go except the one place they really don't want to have to go to from here.

Bravo to Glendale, to ASU and to the Senate for saying 'no'

 

[MNNumbers]

I assume nothing is changing on the Senate schedule today?

 

[WildGopher]

I assume nothing is changing on the Senate schedule today?

Nope. The same 5 bills, not including Worsley's, are on the calendar for today. Bills can be added any time, but this thing looks like it's been put on the back burner to burn away indefinitely. Food in the pot slowly simmers, then dries out, gets burnt black as coal, eventually have to just throw the whole d*mn pot away. Probably toast.

 

[Killion]

Again concerning Seattle. To me, that's a very dicey situation. Here's why....

A hurried relocation before the arena situation there is set in stone will be disaster ANY TIME, not just this year.

Now, assume the SODO project starts. You move the Yotes next year, and try 2 years in Key. Once SODO is in building, you run a huge risk of NBA coming and stealing all your marketing buzz.

I'm a little risk-averse. But, I wouldn't put my $$ in that situation. I'm convinced Seattle only works for NHL if the team controls the building, and NBA rents from them.

Right. The City of Seattle is also "risk averse", tighter than a drum when it comes to subsidies of anykind... so... imagine a situation whereby youve moved the team up there, now stuck at
Key, and if you want a new building well guess what?... your paying for it lock, stock & barrel.... and no, no way does that model under Hansen work for the NHL's ownership. Just not on.

 

[mesamonster]

That all sounds like a realistic, and classy, analysis, given that it's got to be real disappointing for any fan to have a problem franchise like that foisted on your city. The team was rushed into Phoenix without adequate preparation, squeezed into an arena situation that couldn't work long-term.

Your analysis about how an expansion franchise might have been better looks spot-on when you compare it to what happened in the Twin Cities. The Jets/Coyotes almost got shoehorned into a basketball arena there, too, and I don't think that would have worked so well. As you suggest might have happened with an expansion franchise in the Valley, the Twin Cities were far better off in the long run to have to wait a few years and then get to build from scratch. The new franchise built a deep local identity that would have been harder to do if it had inherited another franchise's history and whatever problems it had that made it move in the first place.

It was unfair of the NHL to Arizona's fans to drop the franchise there on a wing and a prayer without the groundwork being properly laid, or without extraordinary help from the league to give this thing a realistic chance to work. Thing is, instead of recognizing its obligation to those fans and its local partners, the NHL instead doubled down, ripping off local taxpayers again and again, and losing whatever goodwill they should have been trying to build from day 1. Like I've said, this whole fiasco will one day make a great business school case study for ways not to market, not to finance, and not to do strategic planning for a sports franchise, or for any business in the entertainment industry. Sad story, but I hope at least some people (including local governments) learn from it some things not to do when getting into the major league sports racket.

Gret synopsis of the situation in Arizona. I agree that relocated franchises do not enjoy the new car smell of an expansion team. The Minnesota situation is wonderful example. The question then remains, if the Coyotes are in fact done in the desert, who would want to pay a pretty sum to resurrect a moribund franchise? Does the relocated franchise come to a new city and seen as the problem child? Potential fans recognize this and are thus slow to embrace the entity. Problems that never get resolved (i.e: Phoenix Coyotes playing at AWA).

Given the issues at the legislature, why would IA have ANY desire to want to play another season at GRA? We all know the loss figures will be epic, now is that Ia`s responsibility? Or, is this another loss item that the NHL picks up under the cover of darkness? Either way, IA and the NHL are the big losers here and another year of losing only makes this situation worse. What FA is going to come to this team? Why would fans bother to attend when it is well known that this team will likely miss the playoffs for the 6th straight year? The questions surrounding next year are now more serious in nature than ever before. Next year at GRA would be the loneliest experience players, coaches and management would ever experience. Either you move the team at the end of this year, where? I have no idea? If a relocation site is unavailable then I really believe the team needs to be contracted. The PA will have problem with this,but perhaps the league offers expanded rosters to the remaining teams to find homes for the displaced players? Regardless, the team and the league cannot afford to take the PR and financial hit that will be inevitable playing next year in Arizona!

 

[Killion]

Regardless, the team cannot in good conscience play another year in a market that does not care about them!

... these people, IA & the League, they'd have to have a conscience in the first place do you not think mesa? whole situation since 96 has
been unconscionable. sociopathic. so sure, ya, absolutely I can see them staying put for another year, flags of false hope still flying high.

 

[DowntownBooster]

Again concerning Seattle. To me, that's a very dicey situation. Here's why....

A hurried relocation before the arena situation there is set in stone will be disaster ANY TIME, not just this year.

Now, assume the SODO project starts. You move the Yotes next year, and try 2 years in Key. Once SODO is in building, you run a huge risk of NBA coming and stealing all your marketing buzz.

I'm a little risk-averse. But, I wouldn't put my $$ in that situation. I'm convinced Seattle only works for NHL if the team controls the building, and NBA rents from them.

Likewise, Portland is a no go.

I laugh at Bettman every time I think this through. He and BOG are boxing themselves in tighter all the time. Losses every year to stay in AZ, and no good place to go except the one place they really don't want to have to go to from here.

Bravo to Glendale, to ASU and to the Senate for saying 'no'

If the Coyotes can't make a go of it in Arizona and have exhausted all avenues there, the owners of the team should try to work out a deal with Les Alexander to move the team to Houston. Even if they are only a tenant in the Toyota Center they would probably be much better off in Houston than in Arizona. This would be great for the NHL as it would keep a team in the south as well as the same conference and would also provide a natural rival with Dallas. It would also be better than waiting for Seattle to make a decision on an arena since no one knows how long that will take.

 

[WildGopher]

If the Coyotes can't make a go of it in Arizona and have exhausted all avenues there, the owners of the team should try to work out a deal with Les Alexander to move the team to Houston. Even if they are only a tenant in the Toyota Center they would probably be much better off in Houston than in Arizona. This would be great for the NHL as it would keep a team in the south as well as the same conference and would also provide a natural rival with Dallas. It would also be better than waiting for Seattle to make a decision on an arena since no one knows how long that will take.

Thing is, Alexander and Toyota Center kicked out the AHL team that was playing there just 3 or 4 years ago so it could use the dates for more lucrative bookings. That sure makes it look like the NBA team doesn't want to share the arena's revenues with a tenant like that. Same problem with the Yotes teaming up with the Suns - the economics don't work for the NBA team.

 

[MNNumbers]

Thing is, Alexander and Toyota Center kicked out the AHL team that was playing there just 3 or 4 years ago so it could use the dates for more lucrative bookings. That sure makes it look like the NBA team doesn't want to share the arena's revenues with a tenant like that. Same problem with the Yotes teaming up with the Suns - the economics don't work for the NBA team.

This seems to be exactly right. Shared arena requires the same owners to own in both leagues, with a few well established exceptions. This is the reason for the Portland speculation.

 

[DowntownBooster]

Thing is, Alexander and Toyota Center kicked out the AHL team that was playing there just 3 or 4 years ago so it could use the dates for more lucrative bookings. That sure makes it look like the NBA team doesn't want to share the arena's revenues with a tenant like that. Same problem with the Yotes teaming up with the Suns - the economics don't work for the NBA team.

Since there are 365 dates available during the year to host events in the Toyota Center, maybe it's something Alexander would consider. I'm sure an NHL franchise would generate a lot more income for the building than an AHL franchise ever could.

 

[MNNumbers]

Since there are 365 dates available during the year to host events in the Toyota Center, maybe it's something Alexander would consider. I'm sure an NHL franchise would generate a lot more income for the building than an AHL franchise ever could.

It generates nothing for the building if IA continues to own the team. They will require, at very least, all game night revenues.

The bonus for Alexander would be rent plus whatever the increased sponsorship value there is in hosting two teams. That's not much.

That's why Les would have to own the team. And, he certainly isn't interested.

 

[DowntownBooster]

It generates nothing for the building if IA continues to own the team. They will require, at very least, all game night revenues.

The bonus for Alexander would be rent plus whatever the increased sponsorship value there is in hosting two teams. That's not much.

That's why Les would have to own the team. And, he certainly isn't interested.

Maybe he could be persuaded. He was interested at one time so maybe his interest could be rekindled under the right circumstances.

IA could even continue to own the team even if they are renters of the facility. That may be an option for them if they just enjoy owing an NHL team. Even if they manage a small profit or slightly break even it would be much better than the amount they are currently losing in Arizona. The extra income for Alexander may not be much as you pointed out but it's much better than have unfilled dates on the calendar for the Toyota Center. Having an NHL team in the building may also create a desire to own the team himself and purchase it from IA at some point.

 

[MNNumbers]

Kern's presser never happened?

 

[mesamonster]

Should IA determine to stay at GRA for the remainder of their contract with AEG/COG does this not openly suggest that this has been an NHL charade all along? Why would any businessman with an ounce of economic competency sign up to lose significant money for yet another year? It appears more than ever that a relocation and the potential for an IA payday are farther away than ever. Paul Allens name continues to emerge as someone who may have an interest in purchasing the team, but only on his terms. It is my belief that his terms are the same as most other potential suitors considering the same. IA/NHL have far more invested in this venture than any potential buyer would be reasonably willing to offer. There is no way that private investors could look at this business and want to continue to lose money at this pace. Which means they are not really expected to cover the losses. If you go with that scenario, you have to believe that GB is receiving heavy artillery fire from the BOG. They can`t be pleased with the decisions he has made regarding this ill fated franchise. Look for them to pressure GB into making a meaningful move in the near future. IA will walk with their original investment and the memories of NHL temporary ownership. The NHL will take a major loss on this venture, there is no other way to make sense of this financial debacle.

 

[Mightygoose]

Maybe he could be persuaded. He was interested at one time so maybe his interest could be rekindled under the right circumstances.

IA could even continue to own the team even if they are renters of the facility. That may be an option for them if they just enjoy owing an NHL team. Even if they manage a small profit or slightly break even it would be much better than the amount they are currently losing in Arizona. The extra income for Alexander may not be much as you pointed out but it's much better than have unfilled dates on the calendar for the Toyota Center. Having an NHL team in the building may also create a desire to own the team himself and purchase it from IA at some point.

Though that's an admirable notion, it won't work on a couple of reasons

First, for the Coyotes to make it work in Houston they would need a very lucrative arena deal. NHL teams outside of the highest revenue markets don't have the media revenues to offset a just being a renter. This is why they can't make it work in Glendale right now, it's why they couldn't make it work downtown, why a 3rd party ownership group couldn't work in Atlanta. Even in Minnesota, if XCel centre wasn't built, they wouldn't be able to be a tenant in Target Center...and so on.

Secondly, I'm sure Mr. Alexander wouldn't mind the dates, but if the cost of getting them is too much auxiliary revenues from the building, then he's better off keeping those dates free for more profitable events. More dates booked doesn't always translates into better margins. ASG seems to believe that as it appears the folks that operate Barcalys as well.

If he wanted to own a team, he could have applied for expansion but since he doesn't want one and hasn't perused a relocated team since Toyota Center opened. Otherwise, an IA owned team would be as big of a disaster as one in Phoenix.

 

[objectiveposter]

Should IA determine to stay at GRA for the remainder of their contract with AEG/COG does this not openly suggest that this has been an NHL charade all along? Why would any businessman with an ounce of economic competency sign up to lose significant money for yet another year? It appears more than ever that a relocation and the potential for an IA payday are farther away than ever. Paul Allens name continues to emerge as someone who may have an interest in purchasing the team, but only on his terms. It is my belief that his terms are the same as most other potential suitors considering the same. IA/NHL have far more invested in this venture than any potential buyer would be reasonably willing to offer. There is no way that private investors could look at this business and want to continue to lose money at this pace. Which means they are not really expected to cover the losses. If you go with that scenario, you have to believe that GB is receiving heavy artillery fire from the BOG. They can`t be pleased with the decisions he has made regarding this ill fated franchise. Look for them to pressure GB into making a meaningful move in the near future. IA will walk with their original investment and the memories of NHL temporary ownership. The NHL will take a major loss on this venture, there is no other way to make sense of this financial debacle.

I disagree. One of the reasons why the NHL has been so patient in Arizona is because they have found ways to ensure thy wont take a major loss. The team was bought by the league in bankruptcy for 140 million I believe. Even if you are correct and someone like Allen gives a low ball offer of 300 million (I think this team will get 400 million in a market like Seattle or Quebec) that is still 160 million above what they paid. They also received 50 million from Glendale to cover losses for 2 seasons. They also received their share of the expansion fee of 15+ million. They have also been receiving addition 15 million a year subsidies from Glendale the last few years. All of that is more than enough to cover all of the losses the league and IA have accumulated over the years if the team is sold out of market.

What doesnt make any sense to me is going into additional debt building a new arena in Arizona instead of flipping this franchise to another market for 300-400 million and wiping away all the debt this team has.

 

[DowntownBooster]

Though that's an admirable notion, it won't work on a couple of reasons

First, for the Coyotes to make it work in Houston they would need a very lucrative arena deal. NHL teams outside of the highest revenue markets don't have the media revenues to offset a just being a renter. This is why they can't make it work in Glendale right now, it's why they couldn't make it work downtown, why a 3rd party ownership group couldn't work in Atlanta. Even in Minnesota, if XCel centre wasn't built, they wouldn't be able to be a tenant in Target Center...and so on.

Secondly, I'm sure Mr. Alexander wouldn't mind the dates, but if the cost of getting them is too much auxiliary revenues from the building, then he's better off keeping those dates free for more profitable events. More dates booked doesn't always translates into better margins. ASG seems to believe that as it appears the folks that operate Barcalys as well.

If he wanted to own a team, he could have applied for expansion but since he doesn't want one and hasn't perused a relocated team since Toyota Center opened. Otherwise, an IA owned team would be as big of a disaster as one in Phoenix.

You have to remember that the NHL does not like to relocate franchises and makes every effort to find local ownership to keep teams in their current markets. Alexander may have not have shown an interest before due to the NHL's policy regarding relocation and may not have wanted to pay $ 500 million for an expansion team like Las Vegas did. However, if IA were to move the team into the Toyota Center, it could change his feelings about pursuing an ownership in the team. Even as a rental, those are guaranteed dates that he would not have to worry about trying to fill by attracting other events. Houston is also a much larger TV market than Phoenix which would also be another bonus for the NHL.

 

[mesamonster]

I disagree. One of the reasons why the NHL has been so patient in Arizona is because they have found ways to ensure thy wont take a major loss. The team was bought by the league in bankruptcy for 140 million I believe. Even if you are correct and someone like Allen gives a low ball offer of 300 million (I think this team will get 400 million in a market like Seattle or Quebec) that is still 160 million above what they paid. They also received 50 million from Glendale to cover losses for 2 seasons. They also received their share of the expansion fee of 15+ million. They have also been receiving addition 15 million a year subsidies from Glendale the last few years. All of that is more than enough to cover all of the losses the league and IA have accumulated over the years if the team is sold out of market.

What doesnt make any sense to me is going into additional debt building a new arena in Arizona instead of flipping this franchise to another market for 300-400 million and wiping away all the debt this team has.

Do you believe the NHl and IA would make a profit if they were to sell the team today to Paul Allen for $300MM? I don`t for one minute!

 

[Mightygoose]

You have to remember that the NHL does not like to relocate franchises and makes every effort to find local ownership to keep teams in their current markets. Alexander may have not have shown an interest before due to the NHL's policy regarding relocation and may not have wanted to pay $ 500 million for an expansion team like Las Vegas did. However, if IA were to move the team into the Toyota Center, it could change his feelings about pursuing an ownership in the team. Even as a rental, those are guaranteed dates that he would not have to worry about trying to fill by attracting other events. Houston is also a much larger TV market than Phoenix which would also be another bonus for the NHL.

I will agree that the NHL doesn't want to relocate teams however in the times when one became available (Atlanta) and near misses along the way he never showed any interest. Even in this long saga here, he never showed any interest.

Also, I think having the team move and then hope he shows interest is just as a bad plan as moving the team to a place with no good building deal in place. Supposed he's still not interested even after IA moves?

I have no doubt he would be OK with filling those dates with the rental income, the issue is IA wouldn't be able to comply and stay in business. Who knows maybe that plan will jump start a plan to get a new arena out there and see if the Texas legislature sings a different toon